Would you be interested in romancing an asexual character?

Game Development Writing and Content
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You said succinctly what I kept trying to explain, but never quite managed. This is so true for me as well. It’s that extra “spark” I was talking about before. Without that sexual interest being returned (in a very obvious way, because I’ve never really picked up on it well unless I get hit in the head with it), people got friendzoned very quickly. And if I knew someone for long and they suddenly tried to shift gears, it wouldn’t work for me–I had already put them in the “friend” box and that’s where they stayed.

Yep. All of it is tied together (for me) into one package.

Agree with this as well. Thank you for communicating what I could not!

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I promise I do not mean this to sound patronizing - I think this is a genuine difference in how people view the experience of playing games, which is something I think about a lot! But what’s surprising to me about some of the discussion here is that we are, in fact, talking about playing games. Of course sex in a relationship might be really important to you in real life, but you can try out a lot of different things in games that you would not do in real life. In our games, you might end up romancing a ghost or an alien or a murderer, all of which are either impossible or something you’re very unlikely to do in real life. I think it’s also fair to say that those romances would be much more different than your real-life relationships than a relationship with an asexual person would be. So it surprises me that a fictional relationship where you either don’t have sex or the other person has a different relationship to sex than you do (which as someone else noted, is likely to be relevant on a small handful of pages in many of our games) is a hard line for people.

Disclaimers: I do not think anyone is doing anything wrong. I do not care what anyone is doing in real life. I do not think being asexual is equivalent to being a ghost or an alien or a murderer.

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Oh then my bad! I know you were but this is a pretty sensitive topic for some people, so I was kinda making sure!

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I think my comments were unclear and likely to cause confusion when I said something earlier. I apologize for any confusion that happened. I think I am guilty of mixing stuff in real life with stuff in games as well. Except that this happens in real life instead- I never self-insert in games. Also, for me, romance is not the most important thing I’m looking for in a game.

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You’re correct, these are just games. Though as a long time otome player, I seen fellow players that won’t even touch otome games that don’t allow them to self insert in a way. Otome players are especially guilty of mixing real life and fantasies at time. I always found that a little strange and surprised by the fickleness but that end of the day it’s their own time and money being spent on the games. So it’s my not place to dictate how someone goes about their gameplay.

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I think from this discussion, you can divide people into those that view sex as a physical act and those who view it as a romantic act. I think the people who are reading romance books or playing games for the romance would be more skewed towards those that see sex as a romantic act. So not getting it is like having your cake but not being able to eat it too, I assume. Correct me if I’m wrong because I’m ace lol And sure you can headcanon the sex if it doesn’t happen onscreen, but headcanoning a character as a different sexual orientation than stated is disrespectful and wrong.

I also wanted to add that to distinguish between platonic and romantic relationships, think about how emotional cheating is a thing too. It’s not purely limited to flirting and having sexual tension with someone else. I can’t really explain it well, but there is a difference between being friends and being in a romantic relationship for asexuals

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I think perhaps it’s about how one of the key components of a game, and much media, is that we ask the (player in this case) to be invested. To take it seriously, or immerse themselves, to pretend—to some extent—that it is real. Not real in all senses, but if we go into a book scoffing and dismissing all of it, if we read a vampire book and are determined to repeat every second that “vampires aren’t real”, then we are not giving its fair chance.

And so I think that is why people feel this way. They feel invested in their characters. They come to believe and trust in their character’s abilities to have preferences, just as they would in real life. And not just if they are a “self inserter”. Even people who do not self insert, at least here on the forums, seem to bring in a preferred sexuality or gender or some identity into their games. So I don’t find it so strange for someone to say “my irl preferences are in some ways mirrored by my game preferences”. It shows they take it so seriously they can’t suspend their belief of their irl preference. Which is not technically a bad thing.

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Intimacy is downstream from romance

You ever see what happens when two people in a relationship have radically different needs and wants? The relationship falls apart.

Everyone is different. Because I need physical intimacy. A lot of it. If I don’t get it, I’ll find someone else that’ll fill that need.

Sure you can have an emotional connection but feeling ignored or disregarded is a fast track to resentment.

I’d be mad as fuck too if I invested a bunch of time building a relationship only to find out that we don’t agree on such a fundamental level. Tell me up front before I waste my time.

And I disagree with open relationships so I wouldn’t be happy sleeping around with other people solely to to fulfill physical needs. I want the both of us to satisfy each other. It feels…well I’m having a hard time finding the right word but it’s like using uber when you have a perfectly good car in the driveway.

But I don’t want to do that. I want to be me but also a wizard/pirate/dragoon/vampire

Same reason I dont play as a female or gay guy or something.

I am me, and that’s all I want to be.

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Blockquote abbytrevor
But what’s surprising to me about some of the discussion here is that we are, in fact, talking about playing games.

I’m not sure if I’m using these quotes correctly. If I’m not, I’d be glad if somebody could tell me how to use them correctly.

Personally, I think saying that you’re just playing a game in this context is a bit degrading to the whole choose-your-own-story genre. I thought that authors in your game had something to say. A worldview to share. So, in my own opinion, you are selling your own medium short by saying that.

It is not to say that a game cannot be just a game, but I think saying what you have said encourages people to not think of creating video games and/or choose-your-own-story genre as art. And in doing so could have affected how some people will view the works exhibited in this publication, as such it could have been harmful to authors who have something to say.

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I didn’t read it as disparaging games as an art form, but rather describing playing games while exploring fictional perspectives vs what might be more important in someone’s real-world romantic life.

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We have varying interpretations then. The point is that it could be read and understood in both of these interpretations, as such it can be harmful.

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It’s certainly not my intention to disparage games at all. (Since I write them and work for a company that makes them, it would be kind of weird if it was!) I’m saying that they’re different from the actions you take in real life, but I’m not saying that as a negative - just an inherent aspect of the art form. And of course if people choose to play games making the same choices they would in real life, there’s nothing wrong with that either.

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This is correct, where I am concerned. I don’t self insert (I find that too weird, plus I’m a grumpy pain in the ass and wouldn’t go along with anything in these games without a lot better reasons than we’re usually given), but I have to be able to identify in some respect with the character I’m RPing, and gender and sexuality provide one set of choices that can help with that.

It’s why I typically avoid IF games where I’m forced to play a guy–I get that in most video games, and don’t really want it in IF. Also, I tend to prefer IF games with romance, because I need that extra character interaction in IF (I prefer it to be done well, but having it done crappily is better than not at all, most times). In video games, it’s different for me, probably because I don’t view it as RPing and see it more as a task list of “kill that guy, stab that chick, go pick flowers and get bored, then blow up some shit, game over”, with romances being an added plus, but usually so poorly implemented that I have to head canon everything to make it worthwhile.

I mean, this is what IF gives everyone, does it not? Last I checked, I’m not a chucklefuck detective who works with vampires (though, honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if some of my coworkers drink blood…). I’m not a superhero or a war veteran with PTSD who’s leading my sister’s army.

But, even so, I find qualities–and create qualities within the game’s mechanics and allowed stats–that I can identify with in those characters, allowing me to RP them through the plots of the stories in a way that works for me. If I’m not allowed to make a character whose head I can get into, I don’t play the game. It’s that simple.

To be able to have those characters engage in romance, the same set of rules must be true, and I need to be able to identify with them enough to RP that romance. If I can’t wrap my mind around how the character is to relate to their RO, my ability to suspend disbelief is broken. My immersion is broken. It’s why I have problems with a RO in an IF who has an open relationship with a committed MC–that is not something I can comprehend, and is so much the antithesis of my views of love that there is no way I can RP it.

And the more I read posts here, the more I realize the same would likely apply to an ace RO–they’d get friendzoned by any MC I RP, because I’m not wired in a way to view it as anything but friends. And for me, that’s not a romance, so the suspension of disbelief breaks.

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I see, I might’ve misunderstood what you wrote. Sorry, English isn’t my first language, so sometimes I might make embarrassing mistakes and misread the information presented to me.

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I was wondering how long until you took a shot at wayhaven lmfao

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It wasn’t really meant to be a shot. I was making a point. Despite my problems with the series, I can get into the MC’s head enough to RP them (and one of the ROs makes it worth it, so far. I just have to ignore some of the text at times, because my MC isn’t… quite like that.

But that’s true of any of these games, isn’t it? There are things that all the MCs do, at times, where I’m rolling my eyes at the complete idiocy of it, because anyone with a functioning brain wouldn’t do whatever it is they just did. It just tends to happen more in some games than others…

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See, this got me wondering.

What is more important: abundance of personality or said personality being very consistent, even if it leads to fewer choices? I’ve planned to limit personality in my game to two axises with some leeway between, but still, four total identity points. Yet from what I’ve seen in other games with personality stuff it seems there’s more of a focus on abundance of personality choices, even if they aren’t often recalled or set after the varied text.

For me it feels like it’s more limiting and hindering to write more stuff and then not take it into consideration while letting the player pick still (because why did you even bother, man), but from what I’ve seen it seems choices I deem superficial can be surprisingly important for other people. That really makes me think what actually serves as latches for player to grip onto MC. Personality? Appearance? Choice of tea, coffee and water? All of those, both, neither?

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This entire conversation has made me think that, at least from my understanding, we probably have different ‘catalyst’ for what sparks a romantic interest in a character.

For me personally, my characters tend to become inclined towards romance when they have a moment of vulnerability or connection that makes them see another in a brighter light. Or when my character develops trust in someone, sometimes that extends towards a feeling of romantic connection.

Despite being demi/gray sex-positive myself, I tend to play allo characters that have intimacy issues, and in those cases the initial spark of romantic interest tends to be those moments of connection.

For others, and please correct me if I am understanding wrong, the root or spark of interest in a romance might be more rooted in sexual tension?

I don’t really understand this personally, or rather I guess I don’t understand how romantic tension need be excluded when you can have romantic tension without sexual tension being an element. Moments of question or where there are ‘boundaries broken’ that put you in between a state of a clear ‘romance’ or a clear ‘friendship.’ I would love someone to expand on this.

On another note I am a little uncomfortable with people conflating ‘I trust and love you, if sex is something you are interested I would like to explore that with you even if it’s something I wouldn’t actively pursue otherwise’ to mean being forced into it. Like, I’m not… fully ace? Maybe I am, honestly labels suck, but for me I would never jump to the idea of having sex with someone. However, if they wanted and I had a romantic connection with them, and the like, then that is something I wouldn’t mind or even would enjoy exploring with them.

I might be gray/demi/whatever but that doesn’t mean I don’t possess general sexual desire, it just means that as a rule I don’t seek out other people to act those desires out onto. That being said, if I invited someone to have sex, it wouldn’t be ‘because I felt like I had to for their sake’ it would be because that is a physical need I generally have and would deal with alone, but I trust this person enough to not mind sex being something we do together.

I’m not entirely sure if this provides any clarity or is helpful. I just really don’t like the idea that if a character says they don’t mind having sex with you even though they are ace then it means they are ‘just doing it because it’s something you want’ .

Touch-aversion Tangent

I believe I’ve mentioned before being touch-averse so a huge proponent of me showing (when touch-aversion especially is implemented in games) the growth of trust/interest is having the character initiate touches or just generally becoming accustom to them from someone. To me, and for how I perceive the character, these moments would be a pretty big deal since they otherwise wouldn’t initiate touching in general. (I would love more games with touch-aversion implemented, particularly if they make mention of when the MC breaks their general aversion or tracks who they allow to touch them.)

The only thing I don’t like about touch-aversion in the games that have it is it means literally every single time the RO will ask to touch/to hug/to kiss etc. I wish they would just have an option like, “Do you think you would be comfortable if we keep doing this in the future? Do you need me to ask? etc.” Boundaries discussion I guess.

Anyway all this is to say that like, to me that forms an avenue of romance / relationship on its own, sex being irrelevant.

Most of the characters I play wouldn’t be interested in sex to begin with and would need to already have a relationship first. luckily there are very few ‘sex first relationship later’ ROs so it’s not something I need to be overly worried about in IF.

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@vera, since this is a bit off topic

To me, personality is far more important than the others. I can work with whatever appearance the MC has (within reasonable limits) and it’s a hell of a lot easier to head canon it if it doesn’t work for me than it is to be forced into a set personality that I don’t understand or find psychologically repulsive.

More than that, if part of the personality is set (say, the MC is sarcastic), fine, but don’t give players the option between sarcastic and serious then flat out ignore it when you write. Few things piss me off as much as playing a game where I can choose my MC’s personality, but then have the author ignore it and write whatever the hell they want because they wanted the MC to be sarcastic but wanted players to feel like they had some say so in creating the character but never really intended to allow it. That’s false advertising.

If you want a sarcastic character, and intend to write them as such, don’t give the option to have the character be anything but sarcastic. Give some other personality trait for the player to affect, instead, or do like ItFO, where the MC is basically a set personality and no personality stats, but you can affect where they go with it and how they interact with others.

So, yeah, personality is a big one for me, as is gender (though I don’t mind female-locked IFs, either) and sexuality (I’m a straight woman who likes men, and I have no interest in playing anything else… save for FH, where I’ve started a gay male character to romance Steel and I don’t regret it one damned bit). The rest? Coffee or tea? Who the hell cares. I can make a character that works with either. Personally, I always curse the lack of iced drinks, because I freaking hate hot drinks altogether and would like to be able to make a character not forced to choose between two bitter hot drinks or flouride-laden tap water. But really, just say the character has a drink and leave it at that. I really couldn’t care less.

I can only answer for myself, but, initially, yes. I mean, my top five favorite scenes from Wayhaven for my M-mancer only include two sex scenes, the rest being more intimate “sweet” moments. But, without that underlying desire and pull, it’d basically just be two friends looking out for each other or sharing their thoughts.

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I’m the first to zero on anything pretty, but for me attraction comes mostly from the trope “birds of feather come together”, from idea that this person you’ve accepted in your life understands you fully and represents things you always wished to have. Pretty long legs and blond hair certainly help, but for me it’s a combination of looks, character and chemistry with my MCs.

Like, I shill Hawkins and Wakefield not only because they’re hot blonds (but it certainly helps), but because they work incredibly well with my characters, they feel both alike and different in parts where it matters most. I don’t know if it would work without them being hot blonds, but I’ve thrown a lot of characters away after mashing them together and realising I either dislike them or they just plain don’t work with my typical MC. It’s why in Whiskey-4, for example, I can only see Ulysses as a RO and why in SoH my first pick would be Jun.

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