I wonder about that. It may just be that I’m an anomaly but I didn’t get into writing supernatural fiction because I found myself represented in stories, although to be fair certain aspects of my demographic were. I got into it because the idea of creating fantastic worlds and races foreign from my own fascinated me and I found other like minded people who shared that fascination. Not to discount what you’re saying, just that my own experiences here give me a different perspective.
On a side note, besides making female PCs, what do you think would be the best way of getting women interested in male dominated games? My little sister loves Minecraft and Skyrim so I’m curious if your experiences might give some insight on the situation
I used to read all the fantasy books I could get my hands on. These days, though, it doesn’t really matter how interesting the book sounds, if it doesn’t have a female protagonist (or an ensemble that includes multiple women), I don’t read it.
I’m just tired of reading fantasy novels with male protagonists. It’s like…
Say I like ice cream. I’ll eat most flavors, but strawberry is my favorite. But, for whatever reason, all I can ever get is vanilla and maybe chocolate. And, for a long time, my love of ice cream in general is enough that I’d eat all the vanilla and chocolate I could get. I mean, some even came with strawberries on top, which was always a treat. But, after a while, that isn’t enough anymore. I don’t want strawberry toppings–I want strawberry ice cream. And vanilla or chocolate just aren’t good enough anymore, so I stop eating ice cream unless it is strawberry (or like a super artisan vanilla with a lot of strawberries on top). And my friends who prefer vanilla or chocolate look at me all weird, because, seriously, who turns down ice cream?
I wouldn’t mind eating vanilla if I could easily get strawberry ice cream. I wouldn’t mind reading books or playing games with male protagonists, if I could easily get plenty with female protagonists. But that isn’t the case. It is getting better, but it is still more the exception than the rule.
And it’s a shame to constantly settle for “good enough” rather than what you really want.
You will notice that I made sure not to say ‘all people would say self-identification’ because that would be false. There are a lot of reasons why people may get into something.
I mean, one reason I got into tabletop roleplaying games is because I loved ancient mythology, and then saw Deities and Demigods from the friend of my dad, which was a supplement for Dungeons and Dragons.
And as you saw, there could be a lot of reasons that keep someone from getting into a community. If someone is given constant harassment based on gender, orientation, race, etc…well, most people certainly won’t stay there.
I won’t deny that it also depends on someone liking the genre/game/etc. Of course, there may be people who really haven’t tried something…and may end up loving it, assuming the community doesn’t drive them out. I mean, I know some males who actually got into visual novels, but were mocked and left.
Okay, this is just my personal take…but just treat it as normal. If she likes video games, obviously don’t say something like " Shouldn’t you be playing with dolls?" I admit this is a very over the top statement, and I am certain you wouldn’t say something like that. This is just sort of me restating the gatekeeper attitude a very small number of vocal people can have.
In this case, you might ask “What do you like about these games?” With that same kind of answer, you might then recommend games to her. After all Minecraft is more of a building game, while Skyrim is very much a computer rpg/slaying stuff game.
So if she likes Skyrim? She might be willing to give the Fallout series a try (the Bethesda versions 3, 4 and New Vegas), assuming she doesn’t mind Sci-Fi. For Minecraft? You might mention Civilization or SimCity…they are builders in a slightly different variation.
If she ends up loving stories, then you might recommend RPGs heavy on story (Pillars of Eternity come to mind or Fallout 1/2). If she is into the action games, then you might mention Metroid.
Also, depending on her age, I would wait on recommending anything multiplayer. There can be a lot of jerks (to put it politely), even if they don’t know your gender.
From what I’ve heard, you’re completely right about communities driving people away. Part of the reason why I avoid them is that they almost always have some level of toxicity that I just don’t want any part of. I like competition a lot but I don’t want to hear the same repeated insults about my masculinity minute after minute, you know? I’m not sure how to fix that. It might get better as time goes on but for now I understand avoiding them.
I brought her up partly because of how pleased I was that she was into those types of games. It was nice to have something we could bond over. I also brought it up because I’m curious if other female users had been into games since about that age and what their experiences have been like.
There isn’t a lot you can do about this in the short term. In this case, it is up to the people/company who host the game to start moderating things. You actually see some groups actually enforcing rules more, but change will come by slowly.
Once again, just speaking for myself, but if you find yourself sharing interests in some similar games, then say “Hey, do you want to give this a try with me?” if possible.
Or if you are in a game, and she expresses interest, let her take over for a time. Just messing around could spark interest, even if she gets killed quickly.
If it isn’t a frequent conflict for you, if your and the MC’s gender typically align, you may not notice (nor do you really have reason to).
The difference used to be a low priority, but then I got tired of it like drops of water wearing a deep groove. I’m currently playing through Witcher 3, but it is slow going, because, while I love the story, I keep finding other things to play (including yet another playthrough of DA:I). I recently (finally) got Horizon Zero Dawn, which I can’t wait to start (have to meet a deadline first). (Sure I’ve only been playing for a few years, but I’ve been devouring stories since I could demand people read to me and fantasy since I could navigate a library; the glut of male protagonists vs female ones gets tiring).
When I was younger, I had zero hand-eye coordination. I also had two younger brothers (and a sister) and one television. So the younger of my two brothers played, while my other brother and I watched (or, if a two player, my other brother would also play). I was in charge of the guidebooks, walkthroughs, etc. When I became an adult, a roommate gave me a game (DA:O) to play on her system. She convinced me that it didn’t matter how badly I sucked. And so I was hooked. I wish I’d started playing sooner.
Thanks for the advice. I plan on doing that though I’ll probably have to remind myself to be kind to her about it. I’m regrettably not the most patient or affable of people and I’m not all that good with kids. I’m tremendously proud of her. She’s far more creative than I ever was as a kid and easily just as smart, if not more so.
Yeah, depending on her age especially, patience is probably the biggest thing. I mean, I have some friends/relatives, I won’t play competitive games like Street Fighters or board games with because they are sore winners/sore losers.
Also, I want to give a shout out to @LisHz for her answers as well. She gives an excellent example of someone who was given a chance to explore a game, at her own pace, and get a chance to enjoy it.
It may just be that I never noticed a difference between male and female protagonists, myself. It probably helped that I was a voracious reader of RL Stein and Nancy Drew as a kid.
Thanks for providing your experience here. It’s both useful and interesting to hear people’s stories on this, for reference if nothing else.
In my case, I noticed it a lot because I did get the various “Why are you interested in this?” stuff kind of early on. I was raised by a single father, so this made me very much a tomboy, sharing interests similar to his…which is fine for young girls, but when puberty hits, there was a large expectation to conform, especially in Jr. High onward from my peers. Some of this was just generally societal, if nothing overt.
Of course, I did run into some people who did the overt thing…and I won’t deny that it may have made me a little bit reactionary as well…I mentioned how people may draw a line in the sand saying ‘No more.’
Also, in the interest of fairness, it isn’t like most guys were that way. However, it seems like the people who get you irritated are the ones you remember.
I was lucky in that area. My parents never pressured me to go into sports and the like though I didn’t have that many feminine interests. Book reading was fairly encouraged in my family so I never faced ridicule for that, thank god.
And third and fourth one… and stand alone… plus the first one is also not available on all gaming platforms in the first place anyway…
On a related note, South Park The fractured but whole not only did that but incorporated it into the story (the guys genuinely thought you were a boy) and let you be trans and/or non binary.
Samus was originally meant to be a guy. (Even referenced as a he in the book)
Even though this is a bit off topic, I’ll give you my anecdotal story and feedback. I grew up with my sisters as gamers and I’ve been exposed to games from an early life.
My suggestion with your sister is to get to know what she enjoys about Skyrim. Is it the lore or the crafting or perhaps the stories involved in the quests… whatever it is if you find out what it is that she likes in that game you can then recommend or introduce games that match those interests.
There is the online version of Skyrim that would perhaps appeal to her interests as well but she will want to go slowly there because there are some differences.
There isn’t much you can do about that because it is the company in charge of the community who owns that responsibility. The toxicity has improved over the years but it still is there and like a super-fund EPA site, this toxicity takes a lot of time and effort to clean up.
Most companies will not spend the resources in time, effort, people or money to do so, only when the community is first established is there a chance for a more healthy community and that is why there is ever hope as the game industry goes forward.
Idk what most of the writers of my favorite game’s genders are, but if they’re guys then it makes sense why it might be harder to write things from a female POV. Trying might accidentally end up falling flat or worse, being ignorant.
If I see an issue with a post in a thread, I will flag it. As I hope everyone else will.
If I see a general malaise happening in a thread, I often will comment on that and because it usually is more than one person creating such toxicity, I keep the post general. @Ramidel does the same and as a Leader, I respect his instincts on this. As I did not see the trend he did, I wanted to compare notes ( in public since it was not an emergency) so that we could get each other’s perspectives.
I feel we are strong enough friends that if I came to you and said the “fashion show” postings are too much or something else that impacted a thread, we would resolve things together. Because I saw nothing wrong in your posts, I neither flagged them or opened a PM.
Why is this hate? Did you play every game as female/male as you wanted to? What you do is being disrespectful to author for doing his job as he/she likes.
People are able play with no genderlock games with COG and HG. And you still push authors to make games no genderlock. Maybe his/her story that planned before, is better or even quite better that with no genderlock? I am a author but no game author… what a hate…
