What I mean is for example as a female vampire I seduced the female Clotho and in one scene when we’re out walking together she’s concerned about us being seen together. Which is a legitimate fear for lesbians up until recent years ( though I’m a vampire so it’s moot)
Thinking of all the games I’ve played whether it’s ancient times or modern lgbtqa is generally just accepted. And if it’s not accepted in the setting it’s not veven an option. (I assume I haven’t run into a game that wasn’t accepting) I was wondering if there are any.
It’s interesting to see the challenges others face especially if you have never faced similar challenges in your own life. I always play lesbian characters though I’m a cis male with complicated interests
Odd as it might sound, gay relationships were far more accepted than we might think in ancient times. It wasn’t until the Reformation (~1530s) in Britain that it became punishable by execution, and especially in non-Christian nations (ancient Rome, Greece, China, Japan…) it was accepted, and sometimes even encouraged.
Now, obviously there were times when it wasn’t accepted, and if a story was set in Elizabethan London, it would be inaccurate to portray gay couples living openly. That said, in my mind, IF games shouldn’t put realism before enjoyment. I don’t want to play a game that just reminds me of hatred and persecution, and especially not if the author is going to make gay players have a far worse time than straight players.
It’s alright. We all have ‘complicated interests’, as you say. Mine is in Knights. There’s just… something about them. I even bought Dark Souls 3 just so I can create a Knight character and dress them up in all the different varieties of armour. I’m a bit strange, but that’s probably nothing new here.
Just gotta butt in here and mention that when people say gay relationships pre-Christian times were more widely accepted, they are for the most part referring to male/male relationships.
And at least in Rome, it was still shameful to be the male being penetrated as that was considered the lesser, subordinate position, and that position was almost always occupied by a younger subordinate or slave male, never an equal. If it was, that was quite the scandal.
So yes, it was ok to have gay sex in the Roman era but only if you were a citizen and above, and only if you were the top.
What I mean is I’m not interested in having sex, never had sex, nor Will I ever. but I’m interested in imagining sex. and primarily lesbians. That’s what I mean because I don’t know if that’s asexual straight etc I say complicated.
True; pretty much every one of the civilisations I mentioned was super-sexist… but then I don’t really know how much people even knew about lesbianism in those times (I guess they felt women were incapable of loving one another? )
I could be mistaken, but I believe Japan was a little less strict than Rome, and I know Greece was, as while there was still a definite lover/beloved hierarchy, it was more age-based than class-based. I’m not really sure about ancient China, to be honest, beyond knowing that at least one of their emperors was openly gay…
But, yeah, none of them were exactly ideal, but then none of them were really ideal for straight people either.
I’m the same, but it’s not complicated for me. I like female protagonists and I’m only interested in females as ROs so this transfers over to my playthroughs and my MCs are all lesbians because of this.
If I remember correctly, and I could be mistaken, Greece (or more specifically, Athens and Sparta–in that I know those two specifically, sorry Macedonia!) and Japan had similar relationships based on age rather than class.
And lesbian relationships are so sparsely mentioned, I don’t really remember anything off the top of my head regarding them. I suppose since a lesbian relationship poses no risk of pregnancy that there was no reason to ever pay attention.
I mean, there’s a reason Sappho is the most famous ancient lesbian, and that’s because she’s one of the only one whose writings have survived. There is such a dearth of historical writings from female writers or male writers who didn’t hate females, it’s really quite depressing.
I should probably get back on topic. Sorry everyone!
I believe Guenevere might also fit the description. It’s female-locked and you play as Queen Quenever of the Arthurian mythic cycle.
The game starts with you getting married to Arthur, and in Morgana and Lancelot’s conversations make it quite clear that it is an unfortunate truth that their patriarchal culture expects children from the union regardless of Guen’s preferences, though the author has given Guen quite a lot of sexual agency as she controls the amount of sex she and Arthur have, if any (I believe, I’ve yet to play a fully asexual Guen bc Arthur is just to sweet).
So far the only female live interest is Morgana but the WIP is far enough along that there’s a sex scene! [waggles eyebrows]
When Lords of Infinity comes out, it will be “an option that’s not accepted in setting,” because open homosexuality in Tierra is not really accepted (though it’s not entirely not accepted either - there are rules for it). There will also be a gay relationship that is considered miscegenation and is not accepted by that standard.
My opinions will generally vary about these kinds of depictions, because I do think that some depiction of prejudicial settings can be valuable, but I also think it’s really valuable (and relieving!) to show settings without this. I also like the approach of having, like, an optional sidestory to tackle discrimination, like Slammed! has with sexism, where you don’t have to deal with that sideplot, but can. I do sometimes like it when being gay can be acknowledged by the story rather than feeling like it was written entirely heterosexually with a gender swap tacked on, but this depends on the setting, too. If it’s a fantasy or far future where these prejudices just don’t exist, then having homosexuality treated as just as unremarkable is pretty refreshing.
And even then, I bet you could get away with more than you might think the culture at the time did accept more displays of affection between male friends that were thought of as fairly platonic, so you could quite possibly get away with kissing your boyfriend in public in Elizabethan London without people realizing he’s your boyfriend
It’s also why it can get really confusing to read between the lines and try to figure out whether certain historical people were in gay relationships or just very effusive about their friends especially since a lot of modern scholars use this as an excuse to say that “oh, no, this couldn’t possibly have been gay” when we don’t really know
That said, this was a time period when things were going rather downhill in acceptance of gay people laws getting passed, as opposed to it being a church matter; that kind of thing…
I’d say that the Greek men were, as a whole, so misogynist that they tended to ignore what women were doing
That said, they did have some pretty prejudiced stuff against lesbians where they assumed that sex had to involve penetration, or else it wasn’t even sex (so lesbian relationships without penetration, they just didn’t even categorize them as sexual!) and did have some rather caricatured portrayals of women who engaged in penetration as being too masculine, which they considered vulgar… it was all very sexist, yes
Very generally speaking (we’re talking about a huge span of time and place, and I’m no expert ) the attitude was sort of like you’d generally have an obligation to marry heterosexually to have kids, but having an additional same-sex lover would be okay. As long as you don’t do it to excess—sexual excess of any kind would be disapproved of. (The duty to marry was one of several reasons that celibate Buddhist monks were looked down upon by traditionalists, incidentally.)
I also remember hearing about there being a traditional play that featured a pair of women who were lovers who sought out a marriage with the same man so that they could continue to be together. I don’t remember what this play was, however.
I don’t mind games where an asshole character might make a remark or something, but I don’t want to have to worry about violence or anything severe just because I’m a lesbian. The Trump era has already put me back into being nervous, I rather not have my escape turn into a reminder of the kind of hate out there