Wayhaven Book 4 Discussion Thread

Hosted Games Works In Progress
266

I like this. It would better explain the attraction, instead of Li’sar just being enamored with the MC for their blood opening their prison.

Of course, if it went this direction, I’d love for it to be learned that, with certain types of magic, the MC is able to absorb it–and that’s why Sin’s barrier didn’t work (I always thought it was stupid that the barrier was just an illusion). And, perhaps, the MC got a little power boost from Sin they weren’t aware of, which is what makes them able to “steal” part of Li’sar’s power and weaken him.

Then, not only does Li’sar being attracted make more sense, but also the MC basically ensured they’d be attracted back by absorbing his power. It wouldn’t even have to be a physical attraction by the MC, either, in that case. It would be more like the power within the MC is pulled back toward its godlike owner, but the power can’t return itself, so it leads MC to Li’sar, and Li’sar can use it to manipulate the MC. So the mess would be of the MC’s making.

Of course, I’d also like to see the MC able to keep this power (or maybe not be able to get rid of it, no matter what). Give the MC two options in the game, toward the end of the full demo: either work toward getting rid of the power or work toward learning to control it (which means having to work with Li’sar, to some extent). Then, in the end, the MC can’t get rid of the powers entirely, anyway, leaving a seriously angsty path ahead for those who were hell-bent on getting rid of the powers because they have almost zero control, and a less angsty path (but still angst, because for a while, their mere presence would make the vamps uncomfortable, not to mention fighting with the powers would require precision and carefulness so as not to fry their team). That could set up for a b5 angst fest quite nicely. Does your LI care enough about you to stay by your side now that you permanently have solar powers? Or do they pull away even more, forcing you to have to “win” them back (for F and N, anyway… with M and A, you just have to keep fighting to get them to give you a chance to be more to them)?

14 Likes
267

That sounds like a freaking awesome idea, and I love the tie in to Sin. I too thought the illusion was stupid. (Illusions don’t have phyaical force.) It also provides a strong reason for Li Sar’s interest, and has less plot holes.

3 Likes
268

I assume the idea is that Sin’s magic is mental based magic, so it can’t work on the MC because the evolution of the MC’s blood was to defend themselves from the supernatural’s mental abilities and to reveal the supernatural for what they are if they use a veil. The MC’s blood serves as a defensive mental shield, but a physical boost when it’s consumed. It’s similar to Bella Swan, mental powers don’t work on her, but physical powers can.

That scene was lacking because N could potentially use their own powers to control Sin; there’s nothing stating they can’t, and nothing happened other than the MC breaking the barrier. Sin should have destroyed Unit B.

I like this idea better. Even with the booster blood abilities, it still makes more sense for Li’sar to be more invested in a witch, Ostin having his own powers and Li’sar’s powers would’ve been a dangerous combination, over an MC who serves as a defensive mental shield. Which makes me wonder why Li’sar didn’t feed on the MC to gain an additional boost of strength after giving them their powers, rather than roaming around town in a weaken state.

4 Likes
269

Probably cause she needs energy, our blood is just a booster not a health/mana potion.

@mordorintrigue I mean, that’s if she’s actually that weakened. The text say that she lost some power from going through the portal and probably wasn’t getting any while imprisoned, but for all we know she only lost anything between %25 to %50 and gave us like %10 of what she had left. So even though she’s "weakened"it didn’t seem like she’s in the red.

270

That could be the case, although when Murphy drank the MC’s blood, they seemed to gain more energy from the added strength the blood provided. That additional strength should be enough to hold Li’sar over until they can revitalize their power in the proper way instead of walking around weakened.

1 Like
271

I would like to see Lisa beeing interested in MC but kinda not intentionaly? And not in a creepy way!
Like, she got out, after 300 years in a space room without dorknobs and should not be mentally all there yet. So because of her mental vulnerability and ritual going sideways, she imprints emotionaly (and powerally???)on MC, and as she tries to take down agency ( she knows they are evil) MC has to use that artificial connection between them to persuade/manipulate her into not destroying the Agency/World while pretending to like her.

If would be interesting to see LI getting all jelaous about MC having to string Lisa along while they can’t do anything about it. While the Agency looks for a way to contain her they have no other choice but to play along as MC pretends to be all lovely-dovely with Lisa. Now that LI has a competition they would realise their feelings and actually commit( I’m looking at you A) and make the whole soul bonding thing a thing.

If Oatmeal was alive and not a looser, he would be in a cool pararell situation as LI but for Lisa instead of MC. He would know MC-Lisa connection is keept up for necessity but he would try to meke Lisa realise that instead of just standing by like LI. Later his real love for Lisa makes her realise the fake-ish nature of her connection with MC, heal mentally and change her ways or something. All the while LI decides that they are no longer able to stay still and watch MC beeing potentially taken away from them and just like Optic did, they will fight for love ( yeah, sappy I know)

Thats a cool idea with the whole absorption power. That would play into Murphy’s experimenting on MC and how Lisa says we have untapped potentioal.
Because of Murphy, our blood can keep “evolving” and gives us some actuall ability other that imaging phisical barriers away.
But I think it’s we’re to far in the story to implement it without any previous set up. MC already has the Blood, and however wasted is it’s potential, I feel like adding more abilities should not take precedents over fully developing already existing ones. Unless the absorption would completely take over the Blood powers and be fully fleshed out as a power set going forwards, that would be a different story.

2 Likes
272

Depends on illusionist strength and victim perceptibility. Some illusions get strength just by the severity of the targets will as well. Li’Sar is targeting the least willed ones at start. Those locked into a past and can’t get out of it or other similar targets. Its easy to fool those that have a certain desire to manifest. (Few manifest these illusions on their own without magic irl. Sis thinks we were wipped and beat by parents. In reality its her kids that were by her exs. Proof is items didn’t exist before 2k.) So yes, I can believe Li’Sars illusion magic working with right targets.

273

I wasn’t even planning to read the demo, not being much of a fan of bitesize drips, but challenge like that? Couldn’t resist.

So Chuckadee “Chucky” McChuckle’s vitalstatistix:

Chuckles in total: 18,5 (0.5 for supressed chuckle)
Also smirks: 7 and arched/raised brows: 7. Just one snort, though.

The story so far –

† M route, if I’m allowed to pick “no love” option, MC should not get disappointed to not find M in bed. Clingy pathetic doormat. Also, Bad Guy Ostin was as subtle with foreshadowing as M with flirting.

† Villain. What with abundance of electricity adjacent metaphors throughout the game, no wonder we raised a Sith Lord! :grin:

I like them and really wouldn’t mind a story of seduction, corruption, fall and possible* redemption. It’s all there in Chapter 4 already – MC pondering on Murphy, trappers, getting beat up on regular basis, having bullseye on their forehead and so on – all Palpatine Li’Sar has to do is emphasize all that with a promise not to let MC ever feel powerless again. It would be a bit boring on unattached route IMO, I would prefer to scare RO with a possibility of MC becoming a Darth. Motive to ghost RO would be easy with M (no strings attached, innit?) and A/3 (out of sheer frustration), doable with N (it’s tempting for coddled/overprotected people to rebel), as for F…yeah, you’d just have to accept that fidelity is not a defining trait of this MC, I guess.

† Becky lashing out at Bravo for not keeping her spawn safe was outstandingly hypocritical. Something something about black pots and kettles in glass houses.

† I agree that the situation where rando agent dies trying to contain Li’Sar instead of letting them loose and then MC temporarily halts them by inadvertently leeching some of their power would make more sense and flesh out both MC and Li’Sar better.

† So far I like it better than C3. Actual villain! Actual corpse! Not holding my hope up for fun to last, though – quantity of chuckles indicate the author ain’t inclined to switch storytelling gears.

*I love imagining MC running around with Li’Sar, zapping everyone while cackling about power, unlimited powerrrrrrrr. They deserve some fun after everything they went through! And I really should go play “Star Wars: The Old Republic” again.

9 Likes
274

I’m looking at M for that. Unfortunately, in an ask on tumblr, Mishka said still no relationship with A by the end of b4 and that this is just a reprieve before the misery of b5. That also very likely means no relationship or realization from the dipshit M, since there’s no way M-mancers will get any satisfaction before A-mancer, provided they (M-mancers) ever get it at all.

I like it, but I doubt it will happen, at least not with M, since when you get UV for the training, Alima tells the MC that M is worth fighting for. So MC will have to fight for M, while M has their head shoved so far up their own ass with stupidity that it pops out of their neck.

I don’t consider being a walking energy drink for supernaturals to be “power”. The MC has no active power, past not being affected by some mental attacks. Other than that, they’re fucking powerless, which is exactly how Mishka wants them to be for the entirety of the series. That’s also why four chapters into this solar power crap, no one has even mentioned getting the MC some help in controlling the power. Instead, the focus is all on the MC either hurting their LI or themselves. What’s happening now is the equivalent of giving a toddler a loaded gun and hoping they don’t shoot someone. But expecting adults to adult in this series is a fruitless endeavor.

That’s the default for the MC, in general, but in M’s route the MC is worse, since we’re forced to endure five or six books of M not understanding why being around the MC feels good or why they want to be around them at all past boning them. Oh yeah, and being called a slam pig. Yay!

If your MC actually realizes they’re in love, it’s even worse torture, since one day we’ll just magically “know” M loves us so they don’t have to, you know, fucking say it or voice the desire for a commitment (which they probably never will think of). :roll_eyes:

I’ve always been under the impression that the LI will ghost the MC in this installment, but I like the idea of MC becoming a Darth. I want the MC to be able to seriously kick some ass and protect themselves for once. Since M will never shit or get off the pot, at least let us be kickass, for a change.

4 Likes
275

Book 4 out of 7. No relationship with A/M.

How much time passed in game exactly? No idea myself.

2 Likes
276

Soo… “long before the end” is book 5 out of 7? Man, I really thought this is the book where A/M relationships would be cemented before the big angsty one.

I actually like the way things have been progressing with M, but I also played A’s route and at this point it lost its excitement for me. I love a slow burn, but there has to be a reasonable obstacle - here it feels like the author quickly extinguishes any spark simply because it’s not book x yet.

I liked the demo overall, but one big gripe I have is the introduction of yet another team. Why? Seriously, what’s the narrative point of these characters that couldn’t simply be served by Team Alpha? I don’t even dislike the others, they’re cool. But they feel pointless, and knowing the books would be out faster if the author didn’t decide to have 12 characters where 4 would be more than enough makes me annoyed at their inclusion. It feels like they should be extra material - patreon stories, appendices, whatever.

13 Likes
277

I think every book is a season, and B1 takes place in Spring.

3 Likes
278

But how would A’s MC know they’re ghosting?

5 Likes
279

Well I mean if each book takes like 3-4 years–

5 Likes
280

I’m beginning to think “long before the end” means halfway through b7. Not that I’m counting on an actual defined relationship with M, anyway. MC is psychic on that route. I can see it now…

Chapter 15 of b7:

M, after leaving the MC alone in bed for the umpteenth time: kinda wants to go back in there, the frowns, confused Oh… oh… shrugs Huh.
MC, after chasing M down on the roof: looks at M and “knows”, then chuckles

Me: :rage:

I would like it more if M weren’t so fucking stupid. The puzzle has four pieces. How many installments can M sit there and stare at them blankly before he figures out how they fit together? This is M, who seems to have better instincts than anyone in UB, and probably the Agency. This is M, who–when on N’s route and as the MC’s friend–points out that the MC is jealous when N gets hit on by people and gets jealous. Yes, yes, they don’t know what love is (belts out Foreigner’s “I wanna know what love is”), but they already seem to know (most times) that they always want the MC around. Sure, they’re casual (“Smell ya later, MC”), but they are clearly drawn to the MC and realize it, even if they could walk away without blinking. It’s a four piece puzzle M–put that shit together and let’s go. Just because it’s shaped differently than N or F’s puzzle doesn’t make it less what it is.

But NOOOOOO… we have two or three more books of M being a moron. And it’s ruining the character. Anyway…

Go back and read the ask on tumblr about why MC got interrupted if they almost told M they loved them. “It’s not book x yet” is the precise reason. If MC had said it, M would’ve realized and no longer been stupid. But M’s stupidity has to be dragged out for two or three more books.

Agreed. I feel like the whole thing is becoming too unfocused. By dragging all these random characters in, and having all these branches with Tina, Verda, Douglas, and Bobby, it’s just a distraction and something to fill space so the romances can be dragged out longer. We get no progress or actual time with the LIs, and no plot that makes sense, because half the game is filled with extraneous crap. I would’ve liked more choices and branching in the romances, and less in the tertiary side character plots.

Valid point. Hell, M wouldn’t notice, either. Not for several days, anyway. Mishka has always said on tumblr that M doesn’t notice anything at all with the MC, even if they’re gone.

7 Likes
281

I gotta say I don’t get the hate I don’t feel fatigue for the story at all and I’m an A romancer! I’m not getting ANY and I’m still enjoying the series. I did find the scene with Rebecca just a teensy heavy handed but still I’ve been enjoying this series from the start and am even more excited now that the powers are starting to manifest (assuming we get to keep them) Plus I like Li Sar just fine, bring it all on I say.

3 Likes
282

If that is the case, aside from sperkly sparkles, you could give to MC a hulk level strenght and the author would make them slip on a banana peel or something. It’s not about MC’s blood beeing useless but the author’s intention on making it so.
I brought up some potential uses for MC blood before so I won’t again but let me just say, any “power” has potential if either a character or the author is willing to innovate or let them grow, like in Me Hero Academia when seemingly useless powers are developed by the characters who find a way to make them work and later become top heroes.
Even if the Detective started off useless they can grow, and should grow throughout the series.

5 Likes
283

I wouldn’t call it hate, to me it’s frustration more than anything. If you’ve been following the series from the start, it’s been literal years since the first book. Seeing this series dive into so many things that are not the romance with the LI means we get less progress, and thus we’ll have to wait even longer for the romances to reach significant milestones. I’m not that much of a romance fan yet even I am frustrated. This is especially bad when no other explanation for the slow progress than “this series will take 7 books to complete” is provided. It doesn’t feel organic.

I agree completely. Also this is why editors are a thing. At this point I cannot articulate just how much this series could benefit from serious editing. It could help so much. But alas… it really doesn’t look like it’s going to happen :person_shrugging:

16 Likes
284

Yeah, this. Venting out frustrations, poking plotholes and making fun of does not equal hate, on the contrary, it shows involvement, which is beneficial for piece of fiction’s longevity. Nobody bothers discussing things they truly hate.

:point_up: :point_up::point_up:

15 Likes
285

Like someone said. The opposite of love is not hate, it’s apathy.
After these three books, I’m feeling like we are gathering allies for an eventual showdown with the final big bad in book 7.
However, if things remain as is, book 4 might be the last for me. I was already losing interest after 2. Now it’s just my obsession with seeing things through that keeps me coming back.

13 Likes