I must say im bit miffed about author getting first post in month and it pouncing on author on pursuing his vision which may be controversial,
As for Trump he is many things but fascist or even Nazi is not it. Granted having Racist Grandpa level racist in charge isnt the best thing ever but it seems to me that people are panicking and turning “Damn, these years are going to be bad” into “Oh my god we are gonna die” not helped by the Emerging clickbait tendencies
Still to get on topic
Actually you play as either Fascists or Communist in this game, Solidarity is Communistic not socialistic. Furthermore if you allowed people to play Communists and not allow them to play other side it might actually come off as what certain people are indeed accusing certain people of, that is turning it into Educational in the same sense as Schooling under mao Was “Educational” Furthermore Unlike with Nazism Racism etc is not necessarily part of Fascism. Hitler had to push quite hard to get Mussoliny to hand over jews and only succeeded in Mid 1942 When Italy was in deep **** Japan told Adolf to f*** ***, Hell with the way Japanese Treated jews compared with Chinese one could indeed argued that While Fascism is very horrific in stamping on any sign off resistance unlike Nazism it really isnt going to be killing people for the sake of killing. Also I think its bit too far to Compare Orange to Fascism
As for romances What exactly is problem there, i think it might actually result in whiplash if you have serious story like this with romances that obviously avoid the more adult part.
and as for Man writing women characters, this is quite common problem it doesnt matter if its man writing women or women writing men this is common problem, might have to do due to different experiences and perception due to sociological as well as biological factors,
@anon49824592 thank you for your thoughts. I pretty much agree with your comments to be honest with you, with the exception of a few points in my defence…
the fascist path… I’ve thought about it a lot and asked people if they wanted rid of it (which I was inclined to do) however the answer from the players was a resounding no. Also, although it’s not clear yet, the whole point of the fascist path is to show the negatives and ultimate end point of fascism and it’s not pretty. Obviously that is a) not there yet, b) relies on the player themselves viewing the end results as negative and feeling guilty for what they have done.
yes and no. The characters are really only portraits because there are so many (13 ROs). Is that too many and would it be better with less characters that are more well developed? Maybe. Again, the game is only half way through so obviously there’s more to come in terms of development and getting to know the characters.
yeah, probably right with that. I guess part of it is how normal that is for modern dramas, it always needs some gratuitous sex, but that doesn’t mean it’s right I suppose. And so far it is only 1 sex scene per play through, not even 1 for some of the ROs.
ad b) I hope you wont treat it as guilt trip i find the cold realism works better in those cases. let player have some success and then confront him with price for it.
Throught this raises interesting thing about how you want to aproach Communist path. because while it might seem as Fascist<Communist<Monarchist<Socialist and its quite logical many people view communism positively despite around 100 000 000 deaths. Fascists path is clear but what about the communist one here.
You’re kidding me I love the romantic sense for beautifully written and you’re really good at building of a romance. Even though his criticism is good per se I feel like you can be uncompromising with your writing don’t even let the community necessarily affect how you feel about it I personally think you’re writing both sides honestly why either or would go to such an extreme because that’s the thing is we demonize people naturally. But we completely forget everybody’s human nobody is born evil fastest or a Land owners head on the pike killing communist. There is a journey to get to that point and someone had to see the good in what they’re doing to even justify the horrible actions that they do. For example I can make philosophical argument using both Kants ethic, and government, along with even Mills principle utility To justify Jacksons removal policy. But a harder time with the Obama bombing campaign six different countries. Which surprised me quite a bit.
I said “the most disgusting premise,” not the most disgusting thing. I’m talking about Choice of Games writing, not real life–and as far as CoGs no, a game where you play as a fascist is indeed the most extreme thing I’ve seen so far.
Unless there has been a Choice of Game dealing with the AIDS epidemic in Mozambique, I’m not sure how what you’re saying is relevant to this discussion.
I was not expecting such a charitable response. Thank you.
I guess that’d work. I’m interested in seeing what you make of it. That being said, it might’ve been a little less problematic if we could play as a member of the ‘middle parties’ (Von Harzberg, Kant) which are trying to co-opt the extremists. We’d still be in the same political environment and still face the moral quandaries involved, but we’d be a little further removed from normalizing fascism/communism.
I do feel that we could do with a smaller number of more well-fleshed-out ROs. It’s entirely up to you, though.
You’re right–I’m not sure why I didn’t think to mention the problems with the Communism option, as well. Playing as an ally of the abettors of genocide is problematic, regardless of politics.
The work could hint at the sexual content without explicitly describing it.
I’m glad you’re handling it with caution. My biggest concern is the fascist path being treated lightly or in an unquestioningly positive manner.
I already love Franz and Wulf. It’s hard for me to be attached to any of the fascist characters because, well, fascism.
I totally disagree with Kailas. I like love scenes Not saying everyone should have to include them, but if you want to then go for it. It’s been a while since I played through the WIP, but I don’t recall it being any more racy than most movies. As long as they are skippable for people who don’t want to see it.
If handled poorly, a storyline about fascism would disrespect the dead and–at worst–contribute to the normalization of fascism. I’m not sure why either of these reasons are petty.
You’re tearing me apart, Lisa.
Fair enough, but as it’s written currently, there’s a slight amount of social pressure for the reader to do the snake dance.
I know writing tastes subjective have you actually read the full path on both sides. Our read his writing before? I think you know he would be up to the challenge. Handle the subject well
Yes, I have read both paths. @AlexClifford1994 is an excellent writer. However, I have no idea how well he’ll handle the topic, especially since (as he’s said) the story’s criticism of fascism/communism has not come to full fruition yet. Better to address it now than later.
Both fascism and communism can go down very dark path. Fascism did not survive past World War II because literally and figuratively the allies squashed it out where communism live because they had Stalin backing Least his brand of sadly. And I can make arguments at least of course it communism is killed a whole lot more people even arguably more brutal fashion. Specially when you look at China and Indochina.
True enough. But that just makes both paths–Solidarity and New Order–equally morally suspect. Either way, the player gets to ally themselves with some of the world’s most horrifying ideologies.
Now, this is the first reply I feel I have to make on this site. First I would like to say that I find this game extraordinary, there is truly nothing quite the same out there for me. With this in mind, I believe that not having the fascist path would take so much away from the experience, as the game shows both extremes of the political spectrum and not allowing you to experience both would be a detriment of the game’s ability to educate on this topic. Thus I find that the fascist path is a greater boon than it is a detriment.
I would consider myself a socialist/communist (not a tankie though!) IRL and I find that the inclusion of a fascist path adds much to the game. Otherwise it’d just be an exploration of only one side of the political spectrum, which would be less dynamic.
But why did it have to be either? Why did it have to be the two political ideologies that most consistently (contrary to what @Spire says) have blood on their hands?
The dynamic would’ve been very similar had the choices been between Hartzberg and Kant (except you can’t sleep with Hartzberg, thankfully).
Why we have to go for Less realistic situation why don’t we go through the dueling ideologies that were of the time period in Europe. They have blood in her hand so the most forms of governments and religions.
I have to agree with good old @Rogar here, your romance is great, amazing. Sure, we would all love to see a 100.000 word romance path for our favorite RO (because can you even get enough of Kant? I sure as hell can’t), but that is not in the least feasible. We don’t get to have ROs as developed as in a traditional book, exactly because you have to write 13(!!!) ROs and their respective paths. They are some of the best I have seen around here. Don’t worry about that, continue on as you have been doing it, at least that’s my humble advice.
Regarding the rest, I ask everyone to take Eiwynn’s advice to heart. The author is writing the book the way he wants to write it, and we wouldn’t have it any other way.
@Rogar and @anon49824592, I will have to ask (plead, really) the both of you to respect the thread and its author. This discussion doesn’t lead anywhere. It has been made abundantly clear that this discussion doesn’t lead any place we want to go, and the author doesn’t get anything out of it besides getting tired with the constant debate around politics we are getting, and get his creative juices consumed by this stuff. The author has said that communism vs fascism discussion, in all its different forms, isn’t to his liking in this thread. There are threads for that, take it there and I would gladly participate. Here? Stop it, please. Otherwise I’ll have to flag this (which will only make stuff sour between all of us) no matter my political stance regarding the issue or my personal feelings regarding any of you.
Want to talk about in-game politics? Great. Real-World ideological stuff? Please don’t, Alex has asked everyone to not do that before, and Eiwynn have had to intervene a bunch of times already. And the inclusion of the fascist path has already been addressed and the community fully supported it. No need to keep bringing it up.
(Apologies in advance if I’m sound too much authoritarian or whatever, but forum and thread rules must be respected for the sake of everyone’s joyful experience here)
In @Rogar’s defense, I brought up the issue in the first place.
I don’t regret bringing it up, as I feel it needed to be addressed. But you’re partially right–I suppose I should wait to see if the end result actually normalizes fascism. I’ll be quiet on it for now.
On another issue you mentioned, why do we need 13 ROs?
Not saying everyone should have to include them, but if you want to then go for it. It’s been a while since I played through the WIP, but I don’t recall it being any more racy than most movies. As long as they are skippable for people who don’t want to see it.