The Wayhaven Chronicles: Book Three (WIP -FINAL DEMO)

Yeah, that’s too much of a stretch to make, unless it’s just making excuses for the scene being written and the author telling us it meant nothing. I don’t tend to make excuses for intentionally misleading scenes like that unless it’s for a “mystery” plot. The romance plots should not be done like mysteries, so this definitely doesn’t get a pass. It’s just the author jerking us around, because “hahaha! M doesn’t know yet!”

Why M needs the MC in danger to realize feelings

Then, given the way she writes M, we will be waiting till b6 or b7 to get this, because there is no other way it can happen for M. The other three work fine under your conditions, but M does not because M is M, not N or F.

Without the MC’s life being in danger, none of b3!M would’ve happened, even the bakery scene, because M would never have walked the MC to work without practically being forced into it due to the bounty. And, as I was writing this, I realized I no longer agree with @JBento about the bakery scene being what prompted the soft scenes in b3.

No, I think it was the fear of losing the MC that prompted those changes. Without that, we may have had a moment or two, like in b2, but it would not have gotten any further than a temporary soft moment, followed by M dismissing it (like the “weird” about the roof scene in b2).

With M, I think you need the threats to the MC’s life to help M understand their feelings, because M is not the type to think about such things for long on their own. Look at b2. There are a couple of times M notices something different with the MC (the roof scene and the scene where M talks to Rebecca), but it’s a passing thought and they shrug it off.

Even after the bakery scene, where M is disturbed and on the roof again, M tries to shrug it off, then gets bothered when the sexual thoughts turn to something softer. They shrug it off again. That’s how M is. Everything with M is instinct, not conscious decisions to behave a certain way (except when they’re shitty to the MC to “prove” they feel nothing, but that’s a whole other story).

M is not the “sit and self-reflect to figure things out” kind. They go on instinct and don’t overthink things. They also live in the moment, not caring about the past or the future–and that part is directly from Sera.

So, without a dire threat to the MC, there’s really nothing to prompt a realization from them. Worse, there’s no reason to move away from the status quo of “this is just about us fucking or me wanting to fuck you”. Any “weird” moments for M would be dismissed unless there are added stressors involved, and–even then–the most you will get is a confused M that finally says “Fuck this noise” after a few moments and goes along their way.

Remember, M doesn’t want a relationship. They sneer at such things, actively avoiding them, and when F and N try to push them into thinking that way, they dig their heels in and get pissed. When a virtual stranger even suggests such a thing, they angrily call the MC a fucktoy and pout, then won’t even talk to the MC until the MC shows up at their door begging for a place to stay. The apology only happens because the MC forces them into it, and M reluctantly agrees they’re apologizing while stating they meant every word they said, but realize they shouldn’t have said it. It changed nothing and got M no closer to recognizing their need for the MC.

It’s only the constant threat of having the MC taken from them that suddenly has M behaving differently and not actively fighting it. Dezh didn’t allow anyone to learn about the supernatural, but I read the code, and the scene where the MC asks M to go to Tina or Verda’s for dinner shows exactly how M feels (or, rather, doesn’t feel) at that point. And M is nowhere near a realization, not one hair’s breadth closer than they were at the bakery scene given their initial nasty refusal to the MC’s request that they go to dinner.

Contrast M’s behavior there with the discussion with a MC who is on M’s bff path. In the kitchen scene at the warehouse, M tells the MC that they’re sure they’ll do something uncomfortable and miserable for them, just like they do for the rest of UB. That does not apply to a MC on M’s romance path, clearly. I mean, M agrees to go to the dinner, but only after begging. And it was begging. So, in many ways, a bff M has progressed further as a friend at that point than M has progressed as a LI.

I think part of it is M either consciously (or out of habit) trying to make clear that the sex (or want of sex) means nothing to them, so the MC doesn’t start thinking it means something to them. Because it doesn’t. It’d be one thing to agree to go with a friend to a dinner M doesn’t want to go to–there are no mixed signals there. To go with the MC they are trying to fuck or fucking might give off the idea that M wants something more. And they vehemently do not want something more, hence why they shit on the MC to show others the MC means nothing to them.

It’s only after the building falls on the MC that M behaves differently. That is what triggers the shower scene, and it’s the first time M sought out the MC for anything other than a desire to fuck or because they are forced to do so (every other time, it’s the MC seeking M out).

And really, all of the soft moments with b3!M came as a result of the threats to the MC, because the MC was injured, or because M is going on instinct and not thinking. The latter immediately is followed by M being confused or angry or both.

Any time the pressure is off the MC in b3, M reverts to the same confusion they started with. They get soft, then get pissed and confused about it. And that worsens if anyone points it out.

Just looking at the scenes you mentioned in M's route:

Diner scene:
Soft M going on instinct >> gets confused >> gets questioned >> gets pissed >> shits on MC

Training scene:
This one is a strange one, hitting several points at once.

We start with cold/distant M, go to taskmaster M, and land on horny M, or so it seems. From there, it can go in one of several directions:

MC goes along with the experience: turns out not to be sexual. No words are spoken and it’s interrupted before M can make it weird or bad
MC refuses the experience: M is confused and freaks out, admits they’re worried for the MC, and gets mad that everything they do is about the MC lately

Nearly dead scene:
Catatonic MC >> frightened and soft M

Shower scene:
Injured MC >> Soft caring M, refusing to leave MC’s side

Crystal scene:
By the time the not-a-date scene rolls around, M isn’t all that worried anymore. The MC has been kept prisoner in the warehouse, so they’ve been safe. Still, after the MC pitifully asks where M is going, M allows them to come. The scene was “natural” like I think you mean, with no feelings triggered by threats to the MC. M and MC are just talking, nothing too deep. It’s casual.

Then M gets hit by pain. And here, without the threat against the MC, M takes a few steps back. Once they get over the pain, they shove the MC away from them, make no connection between the MC’s touch and the lack of pain, and just move on. This is the M you get when the MC isn’t in direct and immediate danger. It’s almost as if the conection between them doesn’t exist at all for M.

At the shop, it’s really more of the same. M hates people and lets the MC handle it. There’s the hand holding, but it means nothing to M. It’s a way of coping and helps “for some reason”. There’s no need to question it or resist it. And, once the crystal is cleansed, M lets go of the MC’s hand and bolts.

Once back at the warehouse, it’s back to confused M (probably wondering why the hell they wanted the MC there at all), until “instinct” kicks in and they go for another kiss that mirrors the diner kiss, if the MC allows it to happen, followed by a possible realization. If not, then it hops right to the chance to realize love for M. And then it’s interrupted…

Pre-mission scene:
MC in danger >> M freaks out and we get angry soft M

Auction scene:
MC in danger >> Soft M

Hug scene at auction:
MC had been in danger >> Soft, affectionate M

Can I have tonight:
MC is safe, but M’s been through the wringer, afraid of losing MC and even says so >> soft M

M takes a shot:
Author fucks with M-mancers

Given all of the above, by retconning and having M not really realizing their feelings at the end of b3, we will be back to the SSDD (same shit different day) with M at the beginning of b4 if there is a time jump.

Any lack of real contact between the MC and M for any amount of time now that the MC is no longer in danger will cause M to revert back to pre-bakery scene M. Sure, we may get a soft moment here or there–followed by the same “derrrpp, I’m confused” bullshit we see every time M is soft and the MC is not courting death–but there’s nothing to drive M forward.

And, without that massive kick in the ass, M can’t figure things out. They need those intense, dangerous occurrences or, at the very least, something that is threatening to take the MC away from them, for them to understand it.

Because, let’s be honest: M will never sit around contemplating their feelings for the MC for more than a half a minute before forcing their thoughts to other stuff (like fucking). They have no desire for things to be more than wanting to see the MC naked, and the thought of dating makes them physically ill.

The worst part is that, if b3’s threats weren’t enough to make M get it, the only chance we have of M figuring things out by the end of b4 is if the MC literally almost dies a few dozen times in that one (because once, along with being kidnapped and having a bounty on them was not enough). And, given the ball, that won’t happen, so my guess is that M-mancers are fucked until b5.


From this, I’m getting the sense M never really made any progress in b3 realizing their feelings. What appeared to be progress was M reacting to danger and maybe forming an attachment around wanting to protect the MC. But M has really only realized, so far, that they don’t want to lose the MC. There’s nothing there to retcon I suppose, in that case. M has realized they want to protect the MC and don’t want to see them in danger. Could that be what M thinks A means? Or the drink even?

Which makes sense I guess that M is starting to connect the idea of protectiveness with feelings of something different in the moment, but hasn’t connected any meaning yet. But given M is more of a person living in the present moment, then couldn’t other intense moments trigger something else, another instinct besides protection… because I’m tired of the MC almost dying, lol.

Maybe M gets only bits and pieces each book, and can’t connect the dots and put it all together until the end.


While it could be the case with the A and M talk, I don’t think the shot scene was ambiguous enough for it to work there aswell, so there will be retcon or stupidity in that case I believe.

Me too, and there could be other ways of triggering a reaction without danger being a requirement, like if we were fired from the agency or if there was talk of UB being transferred somewhere else without the Detective.


I think for this scene, you may have overlooked something near the end of it. M actively thanks the MC for coming along with them, so they acknowledge in that action that they know they wanted the MC there.

These two things I think are important to show the character’s growth in feelings, and at this point should be taken as a hint that the majority of the time, M isn’t just thinking of sex anymore. M wants to fall back to sex because that’s all they know with relationships and it makes them feel safe, but every time that happens they’re actively forcing their mindset back to what it used to be because they are scared. Not just scared of losing the MC. They’re scared of actually having feelings.

But the kiss at the training grounds, that was them doing what felt right in the moment, and what felt right was sensual, not sexual. And that was before MC got flattened like a pancake. Don’t get me wrong, the initiation of it was flirtatious, but flirtatious doesn’t necessarily mean sexual.

And again the end scene in our bedroom kind of solidifies that M isn’t actually defaulting to sex anymore, even though sex can happen in that scene. Their exact words if you pick to not have sex are “I just want to be near you.” Now, obviously sex does that, but them just being content with laying in bed and falling asleep with the MC is also doing what feels right in the moment and indicative of their default no longer being about sex, because in Book 2 when we turned them down they walked away.

I think their feelings were very heavily amplified because of all the life-threatening danger, but I don’t think M needs life-threatening danger to think about those feelings. I think the way M was acting the way they were at the training scene was showing them actively thinking about those feelings, anyway. But I do absolutely think at this point that if the MC got the opportunity to, maybe not say I love you, but say that they wanna try out a relationship with them to see where it goes, that M would actually say yes.

I just think M is too afraid to leave their comfort zone to actually initiate that sort of thing.

I’m still going with the thought process of it’s because the MC was too busy staring at M and didn’t take a drink, so M took that as the MC doesn’t have feelings for them.

But who knows, I do like to deep dive and overanalyze things a lot usually, so I may be reading too much into everything.


I didn’t even NOTICE the MC hadn’t drank in that scene. :smile:

Either way, in a more internally consistent-written work, this wouldn’t matter - the vampires can read your bio signs, and M’s hyper-senses mean they’re even better at it than your average vampire. There’s absolutely no way (again, in a more internally consistent-written work) they can’t read the Detective like a book, considering the absolute uncontrolled mess Sera writes even stoic Detectives as. It’s just that I can’t trust Wayhaven to work well with itself.


That is true, although counter point: our heartbeat speeding up and breath quickening happens every single time our MC looks at M, so they wouldn’t be able to tell any difference from normal LMAO

Too fracking long...

No, there’s really no way to explain away either of those things as M not knowing they have feelings for the MC. Hence, the retcon–now that the MC is no longer in danger, M can just forget about everything they were feeling, what they said to A, and that they took a shot to the I never statement. Having a time jump where M has no alone time with the MC will make it that much easier.

I don’t think it’s just protectiveness. It was fear of losing the MC, a fear stronger than the fear they have of losing the rest of UB, and M seems to get that. M goes with it in several instances, with their feelings for the MC overriding any ingrained responses to events (no offering sex to make the MC feel better while they’re bloodied, for example).

When the MC isn’t in danger, MC reverts… until the very end. We didn’t get to see M’s reaction on the path where Rebecca doesn’t go and the radio goes dead, but I’m willing to bet M was freaking the fuck out. In any case, the fear of losing the MC was so strong that, even once the MC is safe, M needs to be with them, even if it’s just to hold them. M didn’t fight that desire, didn’t get up and run as soon as the MC passed out. M slept. And then has that very direct chat with A, or a much shittier chat with F or N.

My point is that M has the feelings. With A and the shot, at the very least, M recognized the feelings. It’s just that, apparently, once the “moment” has passed, M forgets about it and goes on as before. Which, sadly, is very fitting of M’s character–unless the timing is just right, with M admitting their feelings in the moment where they are about to lose or just about lost the MC, then once the moment passes, it will be back to “normal”.

It’s not about triggering something else, I don’t think. It’s about M voicing what they’re feeling in the middle of one of the moments where their fear of losing the MC overcomes everything else. In the shower scene, there was no M confusion. Zero. Zip. Nada. It was just M wanting to take care of the MC.

Look at the pre-auction scene. M wasn’t confused at all, and they didn’t hesitate. They just blurted out the question: “You think I could cope without you now?” Then, when the MC is stunned, M flat out says, “You heard me.” Earlier in b3, M would never have said that because M wasn’t afraid enough. M wasn’t standing on the precipice watching the MC slip away from them, knowing that if everything went to shit they may never see the MC again.

It’s the same post-auction in the “Can I have tonight” scene. There was no confusion. M was unbelievably relieved to have the MC back, and was still riding that wave of fear that had them saying what they did earlier.

So I think what it will take to get M to finally say those words is something similar to the above, just even more intense. Maybe not watching the MC almost die, but literally having the MC taken away from them.

I’ve always believed that the MC will be removed from the team, and the LI’s presence, in b5. I’m hoping it’s not because they stick M in a torture box, but wouldn’t be surprised. I just don’t see how that will get M to realize their feelings.

Sera wouldn’t do it, but I think someone else making a move on the MC and appearing to have a chance would do it. If Alima was used correctly, I think that could trigger it. If M pulls something similar to the bakery scene, only intensified to really hurt the MC, no matter how much they ignore or bury things, that could do it. But, more likely, it will be the MC almost dying again.

They also thank the MC for saving them from the Trappers in the forest scene. That is more of a “team” thing than any real softness, though. Just because there’s adding touching doesn’t mean it’s “different” in M’s eyes. We see that when M is waiting for the MC to get back from the facility–and ends up going inside instead of continuing to wait, because they obviously weren’t all that worried.

Agree to disagree. Yes, M has behaved different on occasion when the MC is not in dire danger, but M never considers any of it for long and just defaults to confused and irritable over it without that added pressure.

I don’t think M is afraid at all. M just doesn’t want those feelings and will fight it tooth and nail,explain it away, or shit on the MC to prove they feel nothing more than lust or teaminess (which I would argue they treat a romanced MC like less of a teammate than a bff MC).

Without the fear of losing the MC, trying to get M to realize they may be in love with the MC is like trying to climb a wall of smooth ice with your bare hands. Not gonna happen. You have to have something to propel M up and over that wall or they won’t even bother trying.

Because it doesn’t. The plots are a mess, the characters do whatever she wants them to do even if it feels completely out of character because she’s decided when stuff will happen and won’t change it even if it screws up the pacing.

It’s not just M, it’s everything that gives the MC stuttering breaths, gasping, and various other physical maladies. The MC really is ill-equipped to function in the world the way Sera writes them. Someone needs to dose the MC with some valium to calm their ass down.


But since we know that M’s love language is confirmed as touch, then it kind of does make it different. Especially because, in that same scene, the kiss the MC again without any sexual undertones or remarks at all. It’s just another, sensual kiss. No flirtation. No sexual jokes or innuendos. Nothing.

“Can I have tonight?” I’m not sure what is capturing ${m_his} voice, but ${m_his} words are thick with an emotion I can’t quite make out as as ${m_his} eyes linger on mine.

I lick at my lips not only because of the sudden proposition but because of the complete lack of innuendo, sarcasm, or flirtation accompanying it.

Instead ${m_she} just seems…scared.

It’s confirmed for us in text that M is afraid of those feelings, though. Or at least about finding out if the MC feels the same way, because then that could actually lead to commitment. Because both of these instances are when M’s feelings are arguably at their highest and the danger has already passed, and if we’re going in the direction of M living in the present and not worrying about the past or the future, then they’re afraid of something that’s happening at that moment.

I think with all the asks and outside info we have from out of the game right now, it’s easy to wave away all the subtleties. But again, I think if we really want to believe that everything in regards to M and their possible regression in the next game lines up, then the drinking game can be explained by them not seeing us drink. Because that would mean they still have those feelings for the MC, but they’re trying to push them down again because they think we don’t feel the same at that point.

In fact, I think it would make for a very interesting turn if they were distant more than usual from us in the beginning of next game, to the point of not propositioning sex or even making one sexual joke or innuendo, because they know they still have feelings, but also know if they sleep with the MC then they would be the ones complicating things, in their mind. That would be super interesting but still suck at the same time because we didn’t get the option to drink at the end


In the first one–the conversation with A–I originally thought M’s fear stemmed from the fact that they were uncertain of the MC’s feelings. Or even, perhaps, that the MC wouldn’t believe M if they said they wanted more than just fucking. And that would be understandable if the MC did not believe them, so it would be a valid fear.

This admission is also why I think that having M returning to no feelings at the beginning of b4 requires a retcon. Whatever the source of M’s fear, M knows they have feelings here.

For the second passage, that fear is easy to explain. Like I said, M was still reeling from the MC going to the auction. Especially in the non-Rebecca route (the superior route, IMO), M experienced almost losing the MC again. Emotions were still running high, so when they showed up at the MC’s door, they were still afraid. The only thing that could soothe that fear was the MC’s company.

Further proof that that particular fear stemmed from M thinking they may lose the MC is when M wraps around the MC and asks them never to do that again, clarifying when prompted: “Make me think that you’re gone. I couldn’t…I can’t deal with that.”

And that is also why I think that fear is a requirement for M to actually realize how they feel. Without that fear, this scene would never have happened.

If I thought Sera wouldn’t flub it, I’d be for this. But she would, because she’d force the MC into pure angst and begging mode instead of allowing them to distance themselves, too.

If M did this and the MC was allowed to avoid M, I think it would be awesome. Let M deal with their feelings and figure things out on their own, without the MC inserting themselves into the equation. In fact, let the MC appear to move on–and let M deal with the fact that the distance they created will cause them to lose the MC.

Now this would be an interesting way to bring Alima into the equation, too. Let them actually share a moment of commiseration over M using them and throwing them away. And let M realize that they’ve possibly destroyed the connection between them and the MC by shoving them away. Then, let M fix it.

Won’t happen, though. If M pushes the MC away, the MC will be forced to chase and beg them, and that will nauseate me. Plus, Dezh wouldn’t fucking do it. Ever. Of course, she’d also ask to be transferred to a different team, but that would never be allowed either.

If that’s what triggered it, then yeah.

But M distancing themselves could be based purely on their own feelings and trying to stop them because they don’t want those feelings. Or it could be a combination of that and the forced separation during the time jump that will inevitably happen. The forced separation could just help M distance themselves more.


All I know is that no matter how it ends up being handled, M’s regression will be dumb, annoying and will most likely make everyone unhappy with this route, not to mention if it is something that lasts for the whole book.

The worst part is that it’s not even needed to prolong the plot since M’s past and their possibly sealed psychopath personality would be enough on it’s own if done right, and that’s without even considering all of the possible Alima drama.

I swear all of this is making me dread M’s route even more than A’s one, and that really is an achievement.


Yeah, it will be dumb. Some people will be happy, though. They get off on the back and forth.

Agreed. There’s plenty to keep the tension going. I think the point is to have M and the MC not be together for as long as possible, though. And to heap misery onto the MC in M’s path in great quantity.

I get the feeling that may be the goal. M isn’t supposed to be a “good” path. B3M was a fluke, given Sera’s (seemingly displeased) surprise that many people actually liked it.


I admit I am one of those, but one of my limits is when character development is ignored or purposely reverted for the sake of it, like when you start giving a villain a redemption arc and it ends up being fake or falling back to their previous ways for pretty much no reason other than keeping the status quo.

I doubt A’s path will be any better in the next book no matter how badly M’s is handled, they probably will be equally bad or close to it and at least M will always have book 3 to feed our headcanons.


I take it she is surprised because there is a lot of, I guess, toxic type dynamics there with the diner scene or MC having to beg M to go to dinner, and so forth. To be honest, it’s not my favorite either. I do like M as a character, and M’s friendship route especially. I feel the same about A, I suppose, except maybe on the LT path where it makes more sense for A to behave the way they do towards the MC. N and F paths can be a little over the top at times, and they are both flawed (N’s over protectiveness and secretiveness and F’s immaturity and naivety), but to me they are the only 2 plausable ROs for the MC, because they are at least consistent with their feelings and try to make advances.

M may be intentionality written to be a “dark horse” kind of RO, though. You know, the type you aren’t expected to like right away, but that grows on you out of nowhere later on.


Sure, but I cant even imagine how your mind works, that fight was worse than the worst fight on FH.

If FH is Fallen Hero, I don’t play that one.

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Ah, so thats why. :rofl:

So, Wayhaven thought for the day…

There are three new stats introduced in b3: leadership, persuasion, and instinct. All three are opposing pair stats.

I remember a tumblr post where Mishka told someone not to worry about their four main professional stats (combat, people, science, or deduction) getting too high, because there would be a point where there would be some type of a reset (or something along those lines). It appears this is it.

So the stats we worked so hard to craft for three books are, apparently, moot. Worse, with the new stats being opposing pairs, there will likely be no room to alter the MC’s behavior if we want to pass stat checks (since they’re being logged like personality stats). One wrong choice and your leadership-type MC is now middle of the road.

Personally, I don’t like this. If these new stats were set up like the other professional stats–with a starting boost based on your present stats (like people or combat gives you a higher starting persuasion stat, or even use the personality stats to boost them), then fine. But to basically dump our MCs at square one again–making them even more useless than they already are, despite their skills–sucks. It just seems to be a way to make the MC more helpless and worthless, especially when using opposing pairs, which are naturally designed to bring the characters toward the middle.



Well, MY first thought was

You think about Wayhvaen every day?! Girl, get a hobby. Another one, I mean. :stuck_out_tongue:

Is this it?:

Long-ass shit

If so, then I’d venture this isn’t it, because while TECHNICALLY correct, calling B4 “a later book” and not “next book” when you’re already so deep into B3 (in March 2022, the time fo that ask, B3 was probably nearly finished on Sera’s end) feels a bit odd.

sings the Fairmath Is Trash song

One of the best CoG games I’ve ever played, The Fog Knows Your Name, has this as a problem: if you start out skeptic, then you need to keep skeptic EVEN WHEN YOU’RE LITERALLY PERFORMING AN EXORCISM otherwise you have no chance of passing one of the (extremely hard) final checks to not get ganked.

I’m not sure this is quite square-oneing. Feels more like an extra axis to deal with. Like, you still punch people in the face with Combat. These three new ones feel more like new personality stats. Like, Leadership gets the Bravos to do what you want in the field without much arguing (fight A for that leadership position!), Instinct probably opposes something like Planning or something to see if you’re more of a pre-planner or a winger, aaaaaand… I guess People takes it a bit to the face with Persuasion, though it’s still used to read people, I guess? But they mostly strike me as not very different as the Optimism stat or whatever it was called in B1 when escaping not!Murphy at the end, excpet they’re long term.


I’ve never liked how stats work in wayhaven, since the best thing you can do is pick one/maybe two and level them up as much as possible to pass checks, otherwise you’ll find yourself with a ““well-rounded”” detective who can’t succeed at all.
Normally I’m all for more flavor text, plus I like persuasion stats because uh OC purposes, but in this case I don’t particularly care + now I have to wonder if they will be more of a headache than anything else (although I would love for the leadership stat to come to fruition… without the game pulling another it’s joke! and have A/Rebecca do the steering as usual for cough cough plot cough cough)


I have a few. :stuck_out_tongue: But, in answer, to your question, no I don’t think about Wayhaven every day.

What spurned this was actually the hubby playing his Morgan run (with his MC, Daemon “Demon” Danger–pronounced “donger”) and when the leadership stat showed up in chapter 10, wanting to know, “What the fuck is the leadership stat? This game doesn’t need more shit that will be ignored but make the games take even longer to write” (direct quote there)

He figures it is either a way to ditch the actual stats to make the MC more useless or something for flavor that will cause more unneeded variations that have no real effect on the plot but will result in more overly flowery word vomit. I was leaning toward the former–I don’t think Sera wants the MC to be very effective or self-reliant, so the only answer is to throw the stats out for new ones.

So does the MC being bored in the warehouse when there’s so much to do, but I get your point. :stuck_out_tongue:

joins in Fairmath sucks balls. I wish authors would just use straight stats and forget the that crap. It makes for boring MCs and makes stat checks impossible to pass. flicks off fairmath

Maybe. We don’t need another axis, though. We need the stats we have to actually come into play more than once or twice a game. Piling on more shit that will be ignored isn’t really a prize.

You and me both. But most likely, a “leader” MC will be able to choose whether to follow A’s advice, R’s advice, or the Agency’s rules. MC: “Those are all the same damned thing.” Game: “Yes, but you got to choose, now go fluster over your RO while they shit all over you!”