The Wayhaven Chronicles: Book One (Discussion) FAQ Located on Post 2

[Nara-O]

Okay, here’s the thing. Yes, Murphy is dangerous, more dangerous than the Agency realized - but that’s just it: the Agency did not realize how dangerous he was. Rebecca thinks UB is enough to keep the MC safe, so why, then, should the MC not be allowed to help create a more controlled environment for the encounter with Murphy? This really is the sticking point for me in the argument that Rebecca’s actions are rational in this regard: she knows that Murphy is coming for the MC, and she chooses to allow them directly back into the area he is looking for them in with UB for protection, but refuses to even listen to conversation about how they might contribute to Murphy’s capture by creating a more controlled environment for his inevitable approach.

1. They know Murphy will come for the MC. UB says it. Rebecca says it. Everyone acknowledges it.
2. They know Murphy is in that area. They’ve seen him. It’s literally why UB is there.
3. They demonstrably believe that UB can handle Murphy. It’s why Rebecca selects them to protect the MC.
4. There is no rational way that a situation in which more cards are put into Murphy’s hands than the Agency’s will result in the Agency having better control of a situation.
5. The MC has the option to offer to assist, as a consenting adult with full knowledge of the situation, in arranging for a controlled encounter with Murphy.
6. The MC’s offer is cut off short in a statement by Rebecca that makes it clear she will not even hear it.

As of the moment that the MC is returning to duty after the first thrall attack, the logical course of action is to utilize resources to arrange for a more controlled execution of the situation. Yes, the Agency is underestimating how dangerous he is, but specifically because of that, because at this point, he seems to simply be a relatively normal, if capable, rogue vampire, there is no rational reason not to handle it in a situation that allows optimum control, instead of one where the only control they have is over UB and (kind of, sort of, not really) the MC, and all they’re doing is looking for Murphy, apparently manually, which is demonstrably 1. not very efficient, and 2. something they’ve been trying and failing to do for years.

Everything else Rebecca does aside, this is the one thing that, for me, is truly, genuinely irrational.

[Mewsly]

@Nara-O

Everything else Rebecca does aside, this is the one thing that, for me, is truly, genuinely irrational.

I’ll agree that her shooting down this idea isn’t rational but, here’s the thing, not everyone chooses that option when playing the game.

We need to keep in mind that there are limits to the story, if Rebecca had be like “okay, that sounds like a good idea” that would’ve been a lot of coding on Sera’a part for something not everyone would be interested in reading.

Rebecca did put her foot down and made an emotional decision there, shes a human being who’s scared for her child, but I still wouldn’t call her an irrational person because of ONE decision.

[Hannah_Minger]

@njl

You can’t tell me that the Agency doesn’t have any sort of self defense weapons for their human agents to use.

Actually…Sera has confirmed that human agents don’t do fieldwork. Rebecca herself only personally enters the fray once—against thralls, alongside 3 trained vampire, and only when she absolutely had to. The only real weaknesses vampires have are (a) wooden stakes and (b) DMB. The Agency doesn’t want anyone handling DMB, let alone a human who just discovered the supernatural and might be a jumpy—it’s unsafe for their agents. The stake involves close physical contact with a vampire who would very much like to drink the detective’s blood and will grow more powerful by doing so.

The detective does prove themselves, and the Agency rewards them by offering them a position and a voice in what goes on in Wayhaven. Rebecca doesn’t like it either—and she says as much—but only after the Detective has made their choice.

@njl

If they didn’t want the MC involved, they should’ve had them stay underground in their facility. If they were OK with them being involved, they need to be properly briefed and trained to encounter the supernatural.

Holding people against their will like that goes against brand, and there isn’t time to do this. Besides, they are being protected and allowed to know because UB’s cover was nuked and they need the detective’s cooperation. They have the same level of involvement as before; the difference is what they know.

@njl

Their decisions were reckless and it almost got the MC killed.

Maybe, but they had to work with what they knew. Judgement calls—like Rebecca accidentally sending the Detective into an ambush underprotected—go wrong. Rebecca made a mistake, and she does own up to it.

You don’t have to agree—this is just my two cents.

[No_This_Is_Patrick]

@njl

Rebecca basically saved the day against those thralls so she’s gotta have some training/weapons to use against the supernatural.

Thralls are just humans mind controlled by vampires there’s nothing supernatural about them. That’s why a MC with high combat skill can even fight them.

[njl]

@Meira_Litch

They are not the leader of their station, they are just a Detective. And even if they are an officer, is still for human rules. My point is, for the Agency, they are a civilian.

The book itself has the MC mention they are the leader of the station, unless that was just to try to intimidate UB to listen:

I’d honestly like to see what happens in the case of the FBI or other government official protecting a police officer and if that makes a difference. What is the harm in a trained police officer having lethal or non-lethal takedown ways of protecting themselves? Even in the case of an absolute civilian, do police officers really not advise civilians in self defense in case the absolute worst happens and the officers are incapacitated? That seems really silly to me.

[Mewsly]

@njl

The book itself has the MC mention they are the leader of the station, unless that was just to try to intimidate UB to listen:

There’s the Police Chief, he would be the leader of the station and the MC is in charge when they are not around.

[Meira_Litch]

I think it probably was a way of phrasing it. A Detective is never the leader of a police station, the Captain/Chief is. You even have points about your relation with the Captain depending on how you do your job.

[Nara-O]

@Meira_Litch

I think it probably was a way of phrasing it. A Detective is never the leader of a police station, the Captain/Chief is. You even have points about your relation with the Captain depending on how you do your job.

Accurate. Maybe it’s meant to mean “as compared to outsiders/UB”? I’m under the impression head-butting over jurisdiction between local police and federal agents is a thing that does (sometimes) occur.

Unfortunately for the MC, I’m also under the impression that federal agents usually win. XD

EDIT: Forgot to add this, don’t want to double-post.

@Mewsly I understand what you’re saying re. the complications of coding it, and I don’t disagree with the decision. However, while I can understand the reasons for the decision from the author’s perspective, from my MC’s perspective, it’s still their mother making an irrational decision based on the desire to protect them and being completely unreasonable about it. The MC can’t know the author’s reason, after all! (And not all of my detectives choose the option, either, but not all of them have a strained relationship with Rebecca, either.)

[anon8836198]

@Meira_Litch

Captain/Chief

Then we have lieutenants and then sergeants. Detectives don’t usually have an administrative role to fulfill in a police department.

[HomingPidgeon]

Re: Rebecca shooting down the MC’s plan to be used as bait, I felt like it made complete sense for her not to like it. It’s really not that good of an idea. Like, obviously Murphy ends up grabbing the MC anyway–but like, if they set this trap and anything at all goes wrong they just handed Murphy the MC on a silver platter. They’d have to control when and how Murphy comes at the MC, where he does, etc, and make sure that he didn’t suspect that there was a trap and back off until the heat died down. They spend post-reveal time trying to figure out where Murphy got off to, so it isn’t like they’d have a frame of reference for the best way to get his attention–and again, making sure he didn’t suspect anything. They could let him know where the MC is? But he already does–he knows they work at the police station, he knows they live around Wayhaven, we know he can smell them out. So the trap would mostly end up being “wait for Murphy to come try and get the MC and then let UB get him” and I think that’s kind of the fallback plan already. Like, that’s part of why UB is hanging out around the MC. And making it an intentional trap would just mean adding “and make the MC intentionally vulnerable”, which is a level of risk it makes absolute sense Rebecca, UB, and the Agency as a whole would rather avoid.

[EvilChani]

@Nara-O

A grown-ass adult, pardon my language, is not the one who needs the kind of support Rebecca is trying to provide.

Exactly. Two of my characters, in particular, were put off with Rebecca’s attitude at the facility. “Oh, I’m here for you.” “Yeah, I don’t need you now, I needed you when I was a kid. I can deal with this, now get off me and give me the resources I need to deal with this on my own.”

@Nara-O

It feels like Rebecca is trying to just “make up for lost time”, but the lost time is “the MC growing up”, and it just doesn’t work that way. You can’t revert your kid to a child again once they’re grown, and if you want to rebuild a relationship that broke down in those days with your now-adult child, you need to treat them like a peer.

And that’s precisely why I found it grating. Rebecca, at least for some MCs (certain personality types, really) should be speaking to the MC as a peer rather than a small child. She can’t go back in time, and she can’t pretend that the MC stopped aging when she was gone. She needs to relate to the MC as the adult she/he is now.

@Nara-O

There’s nothing logical about refusing to let the MC be involved, as a consenting adult with a full understanding of the situation, in baiting a trap for Murphy. Yes, the MC is not capable of handling Murphy alone, but when they suggest that they could be used to draw Murphy out, implying a controlled set of circumstances where they are not alone and people who should be able to handle him can be on hand, where the Agency is able to arrange everything and try to cover every base, and Rebecca shuts that down without even giving it the time of day, that’s just flat emotionally-motivated decision making, and it’s not rational.

^^This, a thousand times this. Anyone with any logic whatsoever in the situation would see that the MC’s thoughts about being used as bait is the best option. The Agency has more resources, more agents, more everything. Better to get Murphy on the Agency’s terms than on his own terms. And, if they had lured him in, the MC’s blood wouldn’t have been altered. But, instead, Rebecca was driven by her own guilt over basically abandoning her kid for work.

@michellexylee

Yes, Sera has implied repeatedly that she does trust the MC. She wants the MC to have freedom and she gives that freedom.

It does not come across in book 1 at all. Instead, she treats the MC like a child who needs their mommy to be able to sleep at night. The way she relates to the MC is insulting to any MC who isn’t like “yay, my mommy will take care of me!” about her actions.

@njl

Their decisions were reckless and it almost got the MC killed.

Yep. M said it best, that the Agency values secrecy above all else. Rebecca loves her kid, but she has some serious issues relating to it, however.

@michellexylee

Iirc, the agency doesn’t have human agents. Humans are not powerful enough to defeat supernaturals, thus the absence of human agents. Rebecca had told the MC that during the tour of the facility.

Not sure that’s entirely true. Rebecca tells the MC the following:

“Most of our field agent teams are made up of supernaturals. Normal humans just don’t have the ability or strength to take down those supernaturals who go rogue.”

She said most, not all, so there are human field agents. Plus, Rebecca is an agent, and when Murphy’s thralls hit the MC’s apartment, UB implies Rebecca used to be more involved in the fighting part of things.

@anon38000640

She came off as overprotective and there’s nothing wrong with an overprotective parent(unless there too overprotective.)It just felt like it just clicked into her head as soon as the MC turned an adult. and that’s my problem

Agree with this entire part. My more laid back character has no problem with Rebecca and her ways, but the other three main MCs I have are varied in their distant responses to her. Dezh flat out doesn’t want her around her at all and recognizes her attitude for what it is–overcompensating for not being there when Dezh was a kid. And unless Rebecca starts relating to her as an adult and knocks off the “I’ll protect you” crap, Dezh will continue to not get along with her, She won’t pretend to be helpless to feed Rebecca’s mommy complex.

[njl]

I’m not advocating using DMB, that’s dangerous. But I’m also not 100% sure that DMB and stakes are vampires’ only weaknesses. A cuts off N before they can explain anything other than the traditional methods. I just imagine that there are other safer to use substances that could take down a vampire.

And I don’t want anyone to think I hate Rebecca and think she was horrible for not telling MC everything. Also, I understand the restrictions of the story and coding so no problem with that either. But I’m still not willing to let the Agency off the hook for what I think were mistakes on their part.

As has been mentioned:

• Creating a controlled situation to trap Murphy
• Teach the MC ways of defending themselves
• Give information on Murphy’s weaknesses
• Temporarily place MC in a more secure location

Could things have gone poorly in these situations? Possibly. But would it have been any worse than what actually happened? I just think they could’ve done better or at least explored more options then the sit and wait method.

But really, I understand it’s a restriction thing and I have no problem with that. I don’t enjoy the MC being captured, but I’m fine with it because that’s what needs to happen in order for the MC’s story to progress. If they had trapped Murphy beforehand, Unit Bravo and your RI would disappear to their next assignment and you’d never see them again. Which means no more books and that makes me very sad.

But I do think that the Agency needs to accept some of the blame for what happened.

[OScott]

These are all excellent and intriguing points, and it’s truly been a treat to watch this debate unfold. And, also. I love that you all are being incredibly civil and respectful. But that’s about par for the course for this thread, yeah? I love you guys.

…my MC’s biggest issue with the whole Rebecca thing is learning that she diverted resources that could’ve -nay, SHOULD’VE- gone solely to finding and stopping Murphy… and used them to bodyguard someone who, in the grand and heartless scheme of things, is an extremely low value target. A green detective from a small town with a crime rate apparently comparable to a well-appointed daycare? Pssh. Weighed against the damage Murphy has probably done and will probably do if uncaught, wtf is that one incredibly insignificant life? And, what, just because they’re FAMILY they warrant a security detail? PSSH. DOUBLE PSSH, REBECCA.

I personally get the whole ‘my kid >>>>>>> everybody else’ deal… my MC just doesn’t value his own life at all, haha.

I’m also curious if someone equal to Rebecca or higher up on the food chain will notice this and maybe say something. I imagine she’s given a LOT of leeway in handling her affairs, but I also imagine someone else would have to review the events that unfolded and might have something to say on this front.

…and then combine that with the revelation of the illegal DMB syringe, perhaps the Agency will begin to question her ability to be… I don’t know, wholly rational (? Not the word I want, but the word I’m using) in regards to handling the MC. Which might lead them to think about assigning a different handler/unit to Wayhaven. And UB will have to leave. Rebecca. Your love for us giveth sexy vampires and inadvertently taketh them away.

I’m being unserious and overly dramatic in my speculation, but I’d seriously like to know how she’d respond to the MC being all “what’re you gonna do if I refuse to comply with your ‘don’t go near Murphy’ order? Ground me?”

Also, re: the detective’s role as leader: I don’t imagine that the WPD is big enough to have a proper chain of command, and the MC was promoted in part to take the reins so that the chief could go out - which is something that I imagine happens frequently because his outings with the mayor are specifically mentioned iirc. So I imagine that the chief may be leader in name and in making big administrative decisions -a figurehead- but the MC is the true day to day leader of the station. The guy/gal/NB pal in the trenches, you know? The one i would actually trust with leadery stuff, especially after they get some more experience under their belt.

[Nara-O]

@njl

But I do think that the Agency needs to accept some of the blame for what happened.

This, yes. The agency mishandled the situation, Rebecca mishandled the situation, UB mishandled the situation (the only ones I let off on this are F and M, as they obviously don’t have a ton of sway over what UB does. N advocates for the MC knowing more, yes, but neither of them speaks up or steps in to try to teach the MC after the fact, so they don’t get off scott free, either). I won’t comment on the MC, since that depends very much on the individual MC.

@OScott

the MC was promoted in part to take the reins so that the chief could go out - which is something that I imagine happens frequently because his outings with the mayor are specifically mentioned iirc.

Fair and accurate. There still has to be some kind of chain of command, but it does seem to be a small department, so it’s very possible it’s a very short chain of command.

Relevant, Sort Of

[anon8836198]

@Nara-O

it’s still their mother making an irrational decision based on the desire to protect them and being completely unreasonable about it.

Hey, on the other hand there’s great potential for an excellent development arc where Rebecca will grow as a character and learn to trust her offspring to handle themselves in extreme situations and ease up on over-protectiveness. I think I’d very much enjoy reading that.

[Nara-O]

Oh, indisputably. It’s not a bad thing for characters to have flaws! Makes them more interesting and believable as characters.

[EvilChani]

@njl

And I don’t want anyone to think I hate Rebecca and think she was horrible for not telling MC everything. Also, I understand the restrictions of the story and coding so no problem with that either. But I’m still not willing to let the Agency off the hook for what I think were mistakes on their part.

I don’t hate Rebecca either, but I find her annoying when she’s relating to the MC. And I do think that, for certain personality types, she makes it impossible to have a decent relationship with the MC.

I do put blame on both her and the Agency (and UB, really) for not giving her the means and knowledge to protect herself rather than being completely and utterly dependent upon them.

@OScott

I personally get the whole ‘my kid >>>>>>> everybody else’ deal… my MC just doesn’t value his own life at all,

Lol. I get that. One of mine is pretty damned reckless, but her main problem is that she can, and has, taken care of herself for so long that she doesn’t want Rebecca sticking her nose in her business. And she is totally combat oriented (I could see her telling Rebecca to back off and if she wants to see which one of them is more badass to spar with her and, after handing Rebecca her ass on a platter, maybe she’ll stop acting like the MC can’t tie her own damned shoes).

@OScott

’m being unserious and overly dramatic in my speculation, but I’d seriously like to know how she’d respond to the MC being all “what’re you gonna do if I refuse to comply with your ‘don’t go near Murphy’ order? Ground me?”

ROTFLMAO! I love it. And could see one of my detectives saying the same thing!

@Nara-O

This, yes. The agency mishandled the situation, Rebecca mishandled the situation, UB mishandled the situation (the only ones I let off on this are F and M, as they obviously don’t have a ton of sway over what UB does. N advocates for the MC knowing more, yes, but neither of them speaks up or steps in to try to teach the MC after the fact, so they don’t get off scott free, either). I won’t comment on the MC, since that depends very much on the individual MC.

Agree with all of this, too. As much as I love M and A as characters, they were jackasses about the MC for pretty much the entire book. I agree about N and F as well. N knew what was right but let A steamroll them. With F, I kinda give a pass because I view them like a kid, in some ways.

@anon8836198

Hey, on the other hand there’s great potential for an excellent development arc where Rebecca will grow as a character and learn to trust her offspring to handle themselves in extreme situations and ease up on over-protectiveness. I think I’d very much enjoy reading that.

I’m hoping this is where Sera takes it. But to get there, Rebecca will need a huge attitude adjustment. Otherwise, two of my detectives will likely tell her to go piss up a rope and have little to do with outside of whatever is necessary for work.

@Nara-O

It’s not a bad thing for characters to have flaws! Makes them more interesting and believable as characters.

I hate perfect characters. And, as far as I can see, there are no perfect characters in Sera’s story, MC included. I just think Rebecca needs an overhaul or, as a reader, I’ll probably never like her, and my MCs, for the most part, won’t want anything to do with her.

[Meira_Litch]

@EvilChani

after handing Rebecca her ass on a platter, maybe she’ll stop acting like the MC can’t tie her own damned shoes

This made me laugh because I am 100% certain that Rebecca would kick the MCs ass if she wanted to. She fought the Thralls at the apartment, while MC, even combat one, struggled to fight less.

Now I can’t take the image from my head of Rebecca and MC sparring and Rebecca going easy until MC pisses her off

[michellexylee]

At least your MC can fight. My MC has 0% combat skills (she has very high people skills though). She even tried to talk down the thralls - which as we know sooo doesn’t work.

I can totally imagine my MC probably trying to talk down Rebecca in a fight… and end up getting her ass totally kicked.

[nelphii]

@michellexylee

She even tried to talk down the thralls - which as we know sooo doesn’t work.

did it not work? When I played as Sienna, I know at the very least it got them to stop and pause, but maybe I’m remembering wrong…