For the record, I am totally fine with the wizard reveal as it is. I would like to point out that these ‘mysteries’ are very easily missable. There are very few meaningful interactions with the church, and the only one that suggests they are a bit shady is locked behind a series of very specific decisions. Had to code dive backwards from the scene to trace how to get it. In an average playthrough, chances are that the Temple will never seem anything other than a ordinary medieval church.
2 Likes
Fair point on the letter. It’s pretty minor.
“Might be a consequence of the non-linearity of events in the game. I think I scripted it considering that the player would never visit Boglan before the event to meet Nellasha happened, but I think that isn’t the case anymore. (It certainly was at some point)”
I’ve had play throughs where the order has been reversed (I think the very first time I tried she appeared first).
I wasn’t referring to the enemy’s claim, but actually my own folks. If you choose to pursue the meteor, you are told after the fight your troops were at a disadvantage, because it was nearer the enemy.
Sorry you felt this way. I do think there are hints of at least some of what is going to happen spread across the game, but this comes down to that previous point of different possible experiences. If more people feel the way you do, it will give me more of a sense that this is a recurrent problem in playthroughs.
“About the Wizard, this is a much-needed interaction to explain some of the mysteries that would, otherwise, remain unexplained. It serves the purpose of both explain the relationship between the Temple, the Abyssal Spawns and the people from Dagoria.”
It’s only much-needed if I care about the mystery, which I don’t. And, for the game I was playing, and enjoying, I shouldn’t. Everything up until that is dry, repetitive, with the tone of an SNES simulation game. THIS IS NOT A BAD THING. I loved those games. But please understand that by setting that kind of tone early on, it makes one unprepared for a sudden serious turn into a prophetic battle against supernatural creatures. And the scene isn’t earned at all. You are invited to the back and shown this big deal of a secret and asked to change your people’s religion and given her vote for king and who the fuck is this woman anyway and why does she trust me so much when I flat out refused to send money and troops to the king when requested? So, in one scene, we have a huge change in story and tone. You point out that there are hints leading up to it, but that doesn’t make it better, because we’ve gone from a story where lore is in the details and not always available and not always reliable (which is really cool, btw, I loved learning about the weapon commission) to having everything spoon-fed to you.
tl;dr version: this goes from a feudal management simulator to a story of battling prophesied supernatural forces and from being a subtle, nuanced story to shoved down your throat. Those are both big disconnects.
"Now, about you saying that there is a “embarrassingly weak ‘talk’ about who will become King” , I’d ask you this:
Do you think this is constructive criticism?
I have no problem being criticized (it helps me improve, and its often better than just receiving vague praise), and I do appreciate when people point specific things they don’t like, but how the hell could I make it better if you don’t tell me exactly what you think is weak, or how can it be improved, or what you felt was bad about it?"
I could have explained better. I go to this place with the other nobles, and we vote on whether or not to remain in Ludland. Well, that was surprising, but okay. Then, it’s assumed that we are all going to be part of a new kingdom and we have one quick conversation (the one with Dullac was very decent, btw, since I’d married his daughter, but didn’t allow me to bring up that Drown would never accept him as king, which I think should have been brought up). I’d heard that Sessohana wanted independence, but she is on board to be part of a new kingdom pretty instantly. I already pointed out how easy it was to get the other woman’s vote. We cast a preliminary vote, and I get 2 votes, no one wins the majority. So what do we do? Well, we ignore the entire thing, because sudden treachery needs to be introduced. The concept of an empire being half-dissolved and having the chance to be king of the remaining areas is a big deal, a chapter on its own. Instead, it just appears and is discarded out of nowhere, not even warranting the majority of a single scene. It’s unsatisfying as a story element.
"Now, about the “evil mastermind”, there are some branches in which you do have at least one interaction with him beforehand, and he is directly mentioned both in spy reports and in dialogue with some RO. He is also indirectly mentioned in some other situations, and the organization to which he belongs is also mentioned both directly and indirectly throughout the game, and are hinted to be the active forces behind many of the events that happen in the game. Funding Noyedas’ rebellion, assisting the peasants in their possible uprising against you, employing Nada, scheming against the King, trying to assassinate you, killing the Mulligan brothers, etc.
Regarding Nellasha “being in his custody”, it’s not necessarily that. The game mentions at some opportunities that Sartham is the most important political figure in Boglan and that he is the one keeping it all together. I don’t think it would be too far-fetched to think that he has somehow arranged for Nellasha to be released, since he is clearly a part of the conspiracy. So, it’s not necessarily a continuity error.
The same can be said about Jenneth. She made ZERO effort to warm you up to something like this because she was also part of the conspiracy. The fact that she insists on you surrendering can either be explained because she has feelings for you or because she pragmatically doesn’t want to rely on someone else to fulfill the “prophecy”. Yes, they could try to use your cousin and they could try to use your heir or a bastard in your place, but there are reasons given as to why that wouldn’t be the best outcome."
Okay, this part is harder, because I do understand. I really appreciate that I was given a “villain” who wasn’t broadcast as a bad guy from the start, but I was still given way too little. Maybe, instead of spy reports, I could have exchanged letters with Dullac’s lord and heard glimpses from his perspective, maybe about how finding him a wife was proving difficult. After all, I was on great terms with his father, so such communication would have made sense.
I see your logic with Nellasha, but maybe if Sartham had collected her himself this would have felt more believable.
As for Jenneth, her involvement didn’t shock me, in that there are hints she’s involved in other shit, like when she explains your possible bastard brother dying. Imagine if she’d just mentioned a possible deal for me to vote for Dullac to be king, just to plant the seed, before all that went down. I think that would have been enough.
“I would also like to read some more as to why you feel that this is most completely inconsistent with the tone and previous observations. If you clarify your complaint, I might be able to improve something.”
I think I addressed this well in my response to the wizard scene.
1 Like
Ok, I can see how that can be perceived as a plot hole. I can probably add some hints or suggestions about how exactly the infiltration happened, and what kind of gear the troops are using. I just need to find a good spot to expose those things(and not just add it as a “villain’s speech”).
Most of them went with Lord Arlec to the East. I think this is mentioned on the way to the Summit during some dialogues, depending on who you take with you.
There is also some dissatisfaction amongst their ranks that can be exploited. I think this is hinted at during one of the spy reports, but it might be related to your decision regarding Sister Myra. I’ll take a look at that.
But I agree, just that alone doesn’t serve to explain everything. I do point out that, inside the tower, no troops are allowed. So it is mostly a matter of the conspirators locking themselves inside and barring the door. The knights should at least take some time to enter, and they will also have to deal with the chaos on the town/protecting the steps to the tower. They supposedly have no way of knowing what is happening inside the tower, and are supposed to be distracted by the battle below.
There are a few different versions of the report depending on some decisions, but the quote you are referring to is probably this one:
“The trouble was… we were closer to their territory than to ours, and their reinforcements could arrive soon.”
I can understand now your initial impression, and I can probably word it better for clarification, like saying they had a fortification nearby from which more troops could come.
Okay, but hopefully someone does. 
Again, perhaps I should lock this behind a stat check or something.
I wish I played the same SNES games as you did, then. Can you mention who have similar tones? I like to emulate old stuff on my phone.
Ok, two points here:
1 - There are LOTS of references about the “power of prophecies” inside the game and even on the description I gave on the first post here. There are books that mention it, characters that dismiss it, characters that claim to possess it and massive events that happened because someone chose to pursue one of them(the origin of King’s End).
You(and your character) don’t need to believe that stuff, but many characters take it seriously and have done lots of things because of it. I do plan to add a retro update to expand more on the possibility of the MC trying to pursue that aspect, with weird dreams and dubious foretellings, but I want this to be optional.
If by “prophetic battle against supernatural creatures” you mean the MC x the Holy Ones/Abyssal Spawns, I think this does make sense if you get the path where you go to Ehael and confront them. Perhaps it doesn’t if you don’t.
Well, you can probably choose to dismiss it and don’t believe it. Then it’s up to you. (If this is not a possibility in the game, then it should be).
Come on, this is all in the game. She’s the current Lady of Farhall, has knowledge about the cataclysmic event that might occur in the Western Peninsula, is afraid of what might happen to her people, knows she doesn’t have the political support to nominate herself Queen, she (supposedly) wants to get her brother back safely, she’s not that experienced as a ruler, she’s trying both to please the other nobles and to make sure the meeting doesn’t derail into petty arguments, she knows she have a relationship that would be viewed as unnatural by the current religion… she has a lot on her shoulders and at stake.
But perhaps the better point I can make about this specific remark of yours is this:
What would be the correlation of her trusting you and your refusal or consent in sending troops to the king? 
I can understand you not liking the chance of tone and being “spoon-fed”, but I have to insist that most of the things you complained about were always there, and don’t have to be the “final truth” just because of what is happening. There is even a passage for high-Social characters which considers that perhaps this whole talk about more fallen stars and Abyssal Spawns coming is just a false flag to rally the Western Peninsula under a single ruler.
Again, I can understand you not liking it, but the story has also always been about aliens being seen as demons and coming to this planet from time to time to do some shenanigans, and I wanted to expand on that from the start, little by little.
I don’t consider this particular element to be as supernatural as the NPCs in the game view it, and the whole “ability to see the future” and other supposedly “magic” occurrences are all related to a very specific sci-fi element that is a direct consequence of their presence in this world. The Sielc lineage has a particular connection with this, one that I don’t plan on giving more info until the sequel, but it is hinted on some possible early endings here.
What I mean is: this isn’t about fireballs, it’s still low fantasy. There is only one “weird” element to the worldbuilding, although its ramifications are immense.
The Meinstrel dynasty has ended(abruptly), so this is probably the best opportunity for the West to be free. I think every NPC gives their reasons as to why they want to secede. Some might be wanting to do that for quite some time. You can even oppose it if you want, but it’s your vote against theirs.
One of the things people have asked me the most(other than, you know, more RO) is the ability to become kings/queens, and this is something that many NPCs want in the game, either for you or for themselves. Again, I think this is the best opportunity that they’ll get in their lifetimes to do so, and I do think the NPCs all give their reasons within the game.
It surprises me that I didn’t allow this to be an argument when trying to convince Lord Dulsen, although he would simply dismiss it as a “Sessanah will be outvoted and crushed by the others if she doesn’t bend the knee”.
Is she? The vanilla condition to win her vote is to promise her its independence. There are other paths, but IIRC this is the easier one. There’s plenty of talk about this.
Well, you weren’t able to convince the others. What else could I do here? Add EVEN MORE attempts at you trying to convince them? I don’t know, maybe it’s because I see those interactions from an author’s perspective(since I can see all the options), but I always had the feeling that there was enough talk with them, and that it was getting redundant/boring pretty fast.
Perhaps I am wrong, perhaps there is plenty of talks SIDEWAYS, but not enough LINEAR ones, in a sense that what I perceive as a vast amount of possible interactions with them is only an illusion from my point of view.
There’s plenty of content(word count) on the Summit, and it comes right after a timeskip. I honestly don’t know how else I could wrap things up in(what I feel like) a satisfying manner. I do want it to be satisfying to the majority of the players as well, though.
It’s not exactly discarded. If you survive, you become King/Queen. This was, supposedly, Jenneth’s plan all along.
Okay, I can understand wanting more information about Daedros, and this is something I could perhaps spread more throughout the game. But I do have to point out that I don’t think Lord Dulsen would confide in the MC with such knowledge because, well, like it or not the man is a scoundrel. He puts on a façade as a likable man, but I think more than one NPC has already said that he can’t exactly be trusted.
He wants you as an ally, of course, and he wants to be on good terms with you, but he wants you to support him, not the other way around(unless convinced, and even that is pretty hard). I don’t see him as sharing this kind of information, because I see him as someone who knows the value of information.
I can see if I manage to find a place to add a line about this specific situation somewhere. To be honest, I was initially considering that the MC could be the one to do some maneuver to swipe Sessanah with her sister, in exchange for her vote at the Summit, but I ended up giving up on that to cut some corners.
While I do agree that planting a seed can be a good idea, I don’t think there’s a reason for her to try to tell you to vote for Dulsen, because she knows about the attack and that the man won’t survive for long. I think it might actually be more confusing.
You did, thank you.
7 Likes
Another thing I dislike is the Inability to save Lady Avellyn and Lizra. Also the fact that we ‘kill’ Sartham, and the ladies are still alive, then he comes back and kills them both. Like I shoved my sword through him in the fight but he comes back.
3 Likes
That’s a continuity error.
4 Likes
[quote=“MahatmaDagon, post:2768, topic:26275”]
There are a few different versions of the report depending on some decisions, but the quote you are referring to is probably this one:
“The trouble was… we were closer to their territory than to ours, and their reinforcements could arrive soon.”
I can understand now your initial impression, and I can probably word it better for clarification, like saying they had a fortification nearby from which more troops could come.[/quote]
That would be a little better, but I would still probably receive that as though I failed to prepare as well as they did. Every time I was given an opportunity to safeguard my lands I took it, so I would have selected to build outposts if given the option. I’ll come back to this, though.
[quote=“MahatmaDagon, post:2768, topic:26275”]
Okay, but hopefully someone does. Again, perhaps I should lock this behind a stat check or something.[/quote]
Maybe not a stat check, but some type of hidden scene check where if the MC delved into something supernatural or fought a spawn in the past. I pursued knowledge aggressively, so might have passed the check while still having no interest.
Both have flaws, but please play Uncharted Waters, because it was the game I’ve spent the most time playing. The story is horrible, but you have so much freedom, and you spend so much time building up this perfect fleet and sailing the world, and then at the end, the ending is so unsatisfying because you’ve spent the entire game enjoying the freedom of the game, and then suddenly are marrying the King’s daughter and becoming King. I JUST WANTED ANOTHER SHIP IN MY FLEET. LET ME GO SAIL AGAIN! Sorry, but the game gives you 4 options of how you want to be rewarded, and they all end the exact same way.
This taught me early on that a game can’t tell you what to care about. You have to be conditioned to care about it. I’m not generally a fan of sandbox games, but after playing one for so long, I wanted it to stay that way. For all the weaknesses of Uncharted Waters, the trade is amazing. The combat is amazing. It is a fantastic game, and I am actually interested in building a CYOA inspired by it. But given that I am still in the “outline” phase of my first CYOA, this is way down the road.
[quote=“MahatmaDagon, post:2768, topic:26275”]
Ok, two points here:
1 - There are LOTS of references about the “power of prophecies” inside the game and even on the description I gave on the first post here. There are books that mention it, characters that dismiss it, characters that claim to possess it and massive events that happened because someone chose to pursue one of them(the origin of King’s End).
You(and your character) don’t need to believe that stuff, but many characters take it seriously and have done lots of things because of it. I do plan to add a retro update to expand more on the possibility of the MC trying to pursue that aspect, with weird dreams and dubious foretellings, but I want this to be optional.
If by “prophetic battle against supernatural creatures” you mean the MC x the Holy Ones/Abyssal Spawns, I think this does make sense if you get the path where you go to Ehael and confront them. Perhaps it doesn’t if you don’t.[/quote]
References alone don’t make me care about something, though. A great example is the prophet who claims to have visions. Whether you give him permission to stay or not, he’s immediately out of the story, and with a serenity and stoicism that make him interesting. I would have been interested in learning more about him, and wouldn’t that have been a great way to learn more, from a character I’ve met and had the opportunity to make a decision to support? Now, there’s a tie-in, a connection between my actions and the story, as well as a character to focus it through. Then, because I am spending time talking to this prophet, I start questioning the Two more, and diving into that. Word gets round that I am a friend of heretics, and then when I meet Lady Avellyn, she has a reason to trust me, because she has heard I was willing to question. I just pulled that out of my ass and tell me that isn’t beautiful.
I did not get that path on any of my playthroughs. Is that a random thing, or do past decisions factor in?
[quote=“MahatmaDagon, post:2768, topic:26275”]
Come on, this is all in the game. She’s the current Lady of Farhall…[/quote]
What I mean is, who is she to me? I know her title, but I don’t know HER. This is the first time we’ve spoken.
[quote=“MahatmaDagon, post:2768, topic:26275”]
What would be the correlation of her trusting you and your refusal or consent in sending troops to the king? [/quote]
There’s none. I guess I was thinking of that as the only chance I had to show I wasn’t selfish, or cared about more than my own domain?
[quote=“MahatmaDagon, post:2768, topic:26275”]
I can understand you not liking the chance of tone and being “spoon-fed”, but I have to insist that most of the things you complained about were always there, and don’t have to be the “final truth” just because of what is happening. There is even a passage for high-Social characters which considers that perhaps this whole talk about more fallen stars and Abyssal Spawns coming is just a false flag to rally the Western Peninsula under a single ruler.[/quote]
Great time to talk stats. I started this last play through with 40 in Knowledge and Social, read every book and scroll, funded the alchemists, bought all the pretty clothes and wines, went to mass and hobnobbed, basically did everything I could to max those abilities (and would have done more had I not run out of court options), yet still wasn’t high enough to choose that. What are the thresholds for some of those checks?
[quote=“MahatmaDagon, post:2768, topic:26275”]
Well, you weren’t able to convince the others. What else could I do here? Add EVEN MORE attempts at you trying to convince them? I don’t know, maybe it’s because I see those interactions from an author’s perspective(since I can see all the options), but I always had the feeling that there was enough talk with them, and that it was getting redundant/boring pretty fast.[/quote]
I still think that there should be some effort from Dulsen to “buy” your vote. I was loaded on coin (more on that later), but maybe if I’d chosen different paths, I could have needed aurens.
[quote=“MahatmaDagon, post:2768, topic:26275”]
Perhaps I am wrong, perhaps there is plenty of talks SIDEWAYS, but not enough LINEAR ones, in a sense that what I perceive as a vast amount of possible interactions with them is only an illusion from my point of view.[/quote]
I never have the opportunity to invite another lord to visit (despite having tried to cultivate relationships with both), or to write a letter to one of them (despite having enough dead time to skip days), or send a gift (despite having over 10k aurens even after giving my army 4k from battle). I think maybe that’s the problem. The story puts you in a mindset of ignoring the outside world until it comes to you. I feel too passive in this world. Just something as simple as “write a letter to (name of noble)” to increase relationship, and if your combined relationship/social score is high enough, you learn shit. Dulsen confides about his son, Sessohana talks to you about Sartham. If you gave me a chance to pursue the plot, I would. But because I have no choice but to just wait for things to come to me, I don’t care about them as much.
[quote=“MahatmaDagon, post:2768, topic:26275”]
It’s not exactly discarded. If you survive, you become King/Queen. This was, supposedly, Jenneth’s plan all along.[/quote]
Wouldn’t know, I died. As I mentioned, wasn’t so good at the combat thing. By the way, regarding that fight, I’d given my military advisor the ancient sword and brought him with me, yet it didn’t seem to improve my survivability. In fact, the only time his presence is mentioned, it’s me having to defend him. Really, what the hell was that? My 20 combat ass defending my bodyguard?
[quote=“MahatmaDagon, post:2768, topic:26275”]
Okay, I can understand wanting more information about Daedros, and this is something I could perhaps spread more throughout the game. But I do have to point out that I don’t think Lord Dulsen would confide in the MC with such knowledge because, well, like it or not the man is a scoundrel. He puts on a façade as a likable man, but I think more than one NPC has already said that he can’t exactly be trusted.[/quote] He’s still human. I think the letters and associated relationship/social hidden test would handle that.
[quote=“MahatmaDagon, post:2768, topic:26275”]
He wants you as an ally, of course, and he wants to be on good terms with you, but he wants you to support him, not the other way around[/quote]
Real talk: I would have supported him had he made ANY tangible offer. He was smart, governed well, came to my aid when I needed him, and I had married his daughter. I get that some players wanted to be King, and given enough playthroughs, I would be as well, but it wasn’t that important to me.
[quote=“MahatmaDagon, post:2768, topic:26275”]
While I do agree that planting a seed can be a good idea, I don’t think there’s a reason for her to try to tell you to vote for Dulsen, because she knows about the attack and that the man won’t survive for long. I think it might actually be more confusing.[/quote]
Yeah, but if Dulsen were chosen as king, when he died, Gaedros would be the heir, right? Different way of getting there, but still a win.
3 Likes
Do dulsen, the boglan lady and lad avallyn all dir
1 Like
yes, they do
1 Like
Maybe only me but the save functions got bug on me.
Did you struck on the stat screen?
1 Like
Universal Dashingdon slot errors. Make a backup of saves and try to spread them over close intervals. Beyond that, the issue is unfixable.
2 Likes
Ahhh so that way it happened
1 Like
A bit of an advice here. Don’t load or save on the stat screen.
2 Likes
It would be great if you can show map changes for example if you lose or gain land then it shows up on the map
2 Likes
How can we get a bastard
1 Like
have sex with your maid you can encounter her in your court duties
1 Like
the maid mentioned earlier (Nada), Jenneth, Lodka, and Vradnir are your choices, I believe.
so a question is there a way to get both the meteor armor and sword? side note how do you defetet the abyssal creature?
2 Likes
You can get them both. Once you get the sword, go fight the abyssal spawn and it should kill the monster. The combat check is high if I remember
1 Like
then i get it i had maxed the combat but i dident win but thats cuz i dident have the sword at the time it was still in the making ait ait imma try again then thx for the info
1 Like