The Collapse (Ancient Politics in a City-state Sleepwalking into Ruin)

[Talyrion]

@Gregory_Maus

I mean, your character could certainly believe this to be the case, likely with disastrous results. Your character will have a “Madness” reputation stat, after all.

I’ll call that my “yolo” playthrough.

[rose-court]

@Gregory_Maus

Do you have any sources you’d recommend for me to brush up on so that I can keep things relatively accurate? Alternatively, would you mind if I asked you some questions on Sumeria (if you’re confident in your background)?

If I remembered the names of the books, I certainly would, but for the most part I just haphazardly read what’s available in my local library.

@Gregory_Maus

I had considered some degree of customization of the patron deity, but I’m torn on whether to have the player control this directly through a choice or if it should be determined by the choices you make about the city’s background (so a military-focused city would get a war god, a city with a great library would get a Thoth expy, etc.)

I think the second option is best. Having it determined and set by the city’s own character feels much more organic to me than offering up a platter of choices.

@Gregory_Maus

Considering the historical sexism of Sumerian, I had considered making it so that if you went with a female ruler you could choose to 1. either concealing your gender, 2. being open about your gender but acting ceremoniously as male (as several female pharaohs did), or 3. being open about your gender and refusing the male ceremonial roles–which would be the hardest option since it would create a lot of resentment. Honestly, though, options 1 and 3 might be more trouble to implement than they’re worth, so I’ll probably just go with 2 as a default and have there be little significant differences.between gender choices (aside from romance/marriage options.)

Wait so then…would a female ruler be allowed to marry males or would they only be allowed ceremonially/politically marry to females? Because as far as I remember, almost all the female pharaohs were widows ruling through their children. The only other female rulers were from the Medieval Era and onward where women managed to rule in their own rights.

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In any case, thank you for answering so many of your questions. I’ll go play the fixed demo now and come back to write my thoughts.

[Gregory_Maus]

@rose-court

I had considered some degree of customization of the patron deity, but I’m torn on whether to have the player control this directly through a choice or if it should be determined by the choices you make about the city’s background (so a military-focused city would get a war god, a city with a great library would get a Thoth expy, etc.)

I think the second option is best. Having it determined and set by the city’s own character feels much more organic to me than offering up a platter of choices

Of course now that I said that I came up with a third option which I think I’ll use.
You’ll be able to effectively define your patron deity with both a primary and secondary portfolio, which will primarily affect how your priesthood relates to the other factions. For example, if you selected War for the primary portfolio and Order for the secondary, then priests/military will have a higher opinion of each other (for War), as will the priests/bureaucrats (for Order.) Alternatively, if you select Knowledge primary and Commerce secondary, it will increase literacy across the board (but especially for the priests) and boost relations between the merchants/priests while making both wealthier.

Wait so then…would a female ruler be allowed to marry males or would they only be allowed ceremonially/politically marry to females? Because as far as I remember, almost all the female pharaohs were widows ruling through their children. The only other female rulers were from the Medieval Era and onward where women managed to rule in their own rights.

The political marriages would still be to men. After all, the idea is to produce an heir of the desired bloodline (which could, of course, complicate matters for your son.)

[Rav3nsblad3]

I think this idea has an incredible amount of potential. It scratches the same itch that the many “player-as-god” choice games out there but with a renewed sense of interest due to this new format. I think games like these are excellent insights to how various people would treat absolute power. My best advice would be to avoid the urge to make very many “good” endings. It is my belief that in this type of game in particular, ease of conclusion robs more from the experience than the small happiness it might provide. Make difficult choices with “correct”, or at least more profitable, answers in order to instill the completionist gene in people and get them to keep coming back. Very eager to see this project come to fruition and rooting for you!

[Gregory_Maus]

@Rav3nsblad3

I think games like these are excellent insights to how various people would treat absolute power.

I think that those who play this as if they have truly absolute power will discover its limits soon enough, whether by assassin, coup, or unruly mob.

My best advice would be to avoid the urge to make very many “good” endings. It is my belief that in this type of game in particular, ease of conclusion robs more from the experience than the small happiness it might provide.

I intend for it to be an actual struggle to have your city-state survive the whole game, and staying on the throne will be harder still. “Collapse” is in the title after all, and I expect that most of the games will leave Ured in ruins.

Make difficult choices with “correct”, or at least more profitable, answers in order to instill the completionist gene in people and get them to keep coming back.

There will be many difficult choices, often with several terrible options (like ignoring your realm while it collapses or inspiring hatred without fear), and whether an option is “correct” or more profitable will depend on a variety of circumstances. For example, in a city with a patron deity of Law with a strong priesthood it might be wiser to rule in accordance with existing laws rather than your personal decrees, even if the laws are preventing you from taking an action that might seem to otherwise be in the interest of the city.

Very eager to see this project come to fruition and rooting for you!

Thanks. I’m glad to have your support.

[kingzug]

If you have very good mines could that make it so your soldiers are much better armed

[Gregory_Maus]

@kingzug

If you have very good mines could that make it so your soldiers are much better armed

That is indeed one of the intended benefits. You’ll run into fewer shortages of copper or tin during the game so your armies will stay well-supplied.

[kingzug]

I am hopeing to form a kingdom if at all possible threw conquest or by them joining for protection from a worse threat

[Gregory_Maus]

Actually expanding your power will definitely be tricky–holding onto it will be hard enough–but you may be in luck in regards to shared threats providing a reason to stand together.

[Eric_knight]

I tend to choose Technology at first priority and Military at 2nd, economy third and cultural 4th…

I suppose technology advancement is important for the maintaining of survival , as we need better sewage and water system as well as agriculture superiority … Military i set it to curb crime and unrest …

I put priority in agriculture to produce more food… and food may be a major factor in influencing other nations to join an alliance… well simply put, everyone need to eat right? with abundance of food to share is always a friendly trait

I choose to align myself to priesthood and apply the title " God-King" …i think that is cool

[Nerav]

Another political game where we are the leader? May The corruption ensue!

[anon49824592]

Loving this. But why would our subjects call us Usurper or Dark Lord to our face? I mean, we don’t seem to be openly weak yet.

[Eric_knight]

@anon49824592

But why would our subjects call us Usurper or Dark Lord to our face

Not sure about Usurper …but i believe some tyrants or “Dark Rulers” will prefer themselves to be refer as “Dark Lord” just to inject Fear into the hearts of his/her subjects as well as the enemies … the title “Dark Lord” is suitable to emphasis his/her style of ruler-ship as the reign of terror

[Storyblazer]

Heh, So I can form a country built around discpline and professionalism? perfect!

[Lian27]

Wow, i actually like this a lot. Please continue, I choose 1st on Cultural, 2º Technology, 3º Economicand the last one Military, Which i guess i would mean that i have to use the others ones to get military forces. Also i love the options, especially with the kinda prophet, you can take him as a joke, totally serious or a different aproach and have him as a advisor (that’s what i choose) but not believe in him as much. Really really lovely.

[Gregory_Maus]

@Eric_knight

But why would our subjects call us Usurper or Dark Lord to our face

Not sure about Usurper …but i believe some tyrants or “Dark Rulers” will prefer themselves to be refer as “Dark Lord” just to inject Fear into the hearts of his/her subjects as well as the enemies … the title “Dark Lord” is suitable to emphasis his/her style of ruler-ship as the reign of terror

Obviously I can’t know the rationale of all players, but the reason I can think of to use “Usurper” as your title would be to reappropriate an insult as a vague threat. “Yeah, I took over this city-state. Do you really want ti screw with me?”

Heh, So I can form a country built around discpline and professionalism? perfect!

And if you make it militaristic, it’s basically proto-Sparta.

Wow, i actually like this a lot. Please continue, I choose 1st on Cultural, 2º Technology, 3º Economicand the last one Military, Which i guess i would mean that i have to use the others ones to get military forces.

You can definitely use those to bolster your military forces effectively. Naturally your military still won’t be as strong as if you put it primary, but it’s better than nothing. Also, with a smaller military you’re less likely to have to worry about military coups.

Also i love the options, especially with the kinda prophet, you can take him as a joke, totally serious or a different aproach and have him as a advisor (that’s what i choose) but not believe in him as much. Really really lovely.

Thanks, I tried to keep that really open, and with far-reaching consequences. For example, by adopting him as an advisor you have the benefits of his advice and the commoners might be pleased that they have representation on your council, but you’ve essentially endorsed his prophecy which will increase the fatalism of the populace and you’ve angered the upper classes (i.e. the other factions) by allowing a disruptive commoner who insulted them to sit amongst them–especially one who would speak so blasphemously of the city’s demise.

[idonotlikeusernames]

What actually was the cause of Sumerian decline, increasing Akkadian dominance/invasions, combined with increasing soil salinity due to climate change and over-farming/ no crop rotation with the primitive methods of the day?

[Gregory_Maus]

@idonotlikeusernames

What actually was the cause of Sumerian decline, increasing Akkadian dominance/invasions, combined with increasing soil salinity due to climate change and over-farming with the primitive methods of the day?

Hey, no spoilers!
But…

You’ve clearly don your research. The examples you give were pretty common contributing factors for the decline of Sumeria in general, though there seem to have also been factors which varied by each city-state as well. Actually, from what I understand, soil salinity continues to plague Mesopotamian farming to this day.
Any similarities between the historical causes for decline and the old man’s warnings are surely coincidence, right?
Also, considering that we don’t know the full details of what happened in every collapse (we can only speculate based on archaeological evidence), and that Ured is a fictional city to start with, I’ll be throwing in some (plausible) curveballs to keep players on their toes.

[Eric_knight]

Is Divine power play a role in the story ? because if the old man’s prophesy may come into fruit … it could mean that this is a story where God/Goddess (s) exist , and we could communicate with God (s) ? in such case, being ally to the priesthood won’t be a bad idea…

However, if Divine power doesn’t play a role, and it is simply the role of “nature” … then i could properly save the civilisation with Technology and agriculture

[Gregory_Maus]

@Eric_knight

Is Divine power play a role in the story ? because if the old man’s prophesy may come into fruit … it could mean that this is a story where God/Goddess (s) exist , and we could communicate with God (s) ? in such case, being ally to the priesthood won’t be a bad idea…

However, if Divine power doesn’t play a role, and it is simply the role of “nature” … then i could properly save the civilisation with Technology and agriculture

The priestesses will assure you that Divine Power is very real, and that it is only through their appeasement of the gods that your city continues to prosper.

The old man will assure you that Divine Power is very real, and that it is due to the god’s wrath that your city will fall.

If you listen to the Whispers, they will assure you that They are very real and that by following their wishes you will gain everything you desire.