What do you all think about locking relationships and whatnot behind stats, or offering different levels of friendship/romance based on it?
2 Likes
Depends on how itâs done. If youâre repeatedly horrible to someone, it makes sense for them to not be friendly when you are around them, and if a friendship stat helps determine that, itâs fine. If it becomes a paint by numbers thing, where you have to do each and every interaction with them exactly right to get a âhigh scoreâ to unlock something, unless thereâs a really good reason Iâm not really a fan.
18 Likes
I mean more like if you have higher banana you might have an easier time of building a relationship with the banana farmer, or you might only be able to romance the banana farmer if youâre high banana
Basically conditional romance/romance beyond sexuality
Iâm generally for it. Once Iâve explored a story satisfactorily, Iâm bad about going through and mindlessly replaying just to see the other RO paths. If there are stats involved, itâll force me to pay more attention and get more replay value. Kind of a good thing that you gotta crack a whip over me to do.
I think it also make sense inside the game. I like some âearningâ with the ROâs. I find it immersion breaking that I can overtly flirt with some of the group, be mean to some others in the group, then I get a list of everyone on a âWhich one do you like?â screen, which seems like itâll flag a active romance. At the least, lock me out of a RO that Iâm unnecessarily mean to.
3 Likes
Well imo, stat locked friendships/romances etc add some sort of ârealismâ to the story, for example RO A doesnât like egomaniacs and prefers someone who doesnât talk much, so if your mc is the quiet type itâll be easier for that mc etc Altho there should be some type of workaround for egomaniac mc. It can feel a bit frustrating for some people if there are ROâs who âdonât like you for who you areâ.
1 Like
Do you mean if you wanna date a scientist you would need high intelligence? If thatâs the case than, as everyone kind of already pointed out, it would definitely add more realism to the store and add more replay value if youâre going for that route.
The only downside that I can think of right now is if you made that the only requirement (aside from sexuality and all that). It might turn some people off if perhaps they liked that character, but their play style focused more on charm or something. Maybe have other factors that come into play if you have the time for that. Say maybe the player character has higher than normal intelligence but enough charm to woo the scientist or whatever
3 Likes
Iâm in favor of having an easier time with a friendship or romance if you have a high skill stat in common (say, an intellectual character liking you more if you have high intelligence), but I think locking someone out of a friendship because of a low skill stat is a bit much. There should be some way to use skill stats in relationships without limiting the options of players who want to go a different route.
1 Like
Iâm not a huge fan of stats (like courage or intelligence) dictating friendships or romances, because it feels weird if I save an NPCs life but they only like me if Iâm smart; but I think that decisions and approval thresholds (having a certain amount of friendship or approval with a character before you can unlock a romance) feels more authentic and satisfying! Instead of something like: you met this person a little while ago, and no matter what you do or how you treat them, when the choice to kiss comes up, thatâll romance them no matter what! It doesnât allow them to feel like real people or relationships, imo!
14 Likes
Playing to a type to get an RO can be a turn-off for anyone. Itâs a Realism vs Escapism conflict. I probably donât want to play a woman to explore a hetero male RO more than a smart person doesnât want to play a dumb MC to romance The Brute. Authorâs vision or marketability. Itâs up to them.
In terms of character stats⌠I think itâd be realistic to to have stats affect a relationship score, but Iâd only make it positive as to not make it too much of a cage around the Escapism. Maybe just bonus points if with The Scientist if youâre high on Intel.
6 Likes
I donât really like the sound of locking someone out of a relationship just because a stat isnât high enough.
I know people are saying itâs realistic, but it doesnât really sound that way to me. It just sounds like another form of âsay the right thing to raise their love meterâ that dating sims do. People can have a type, but I highly doubt people are like, âI have a type and I will never, ever stray from it ever!â Especially if that type is just⌠a person like them? Iâm a writer, that doesnât mean I wonât ever date someone who knows more about science than art. People can have their own personality and I can still be their friend, itâs just a matter of how they treat me rather than how smart they are or what their hobby is.
As stated above, certain stats giving a bonus but not locking anyone out is a good idea. Thatâs more realistic imo, cause yeah, itâs easier to get along with someone if you know right away you have something in common, but itâs not impossible without.
This is all talking about stats that are, like, personality or ability stats. Friendship and romance meters to gauge where you are in the relationship and how youâve treated them and act according to that are good, important even, I think.
19 Likes
I didnât mean to be stereotypical and simplistic with the stats/type that would like them. Just drawing on the easiest examples to type.
Some authors put SO much thought into their characters, that using their likes and dislikes to affect relationship stats just seems to make sense if itâs not âopen world datingâ.
Intelligent people usually like intelligent conversation, so Iâd give a bonus for, not lock out, the intelligence stat. High achievers (neurosurgeon) usually have some standards for who theyâll befriend and date, so âhigh levelâ career backgrounds could get a bonus, that could include a professional athlete who isnât a genius. Or even a point system to add and subtract, nothing completely binary.
Stereotypical Scientist RO likes: intelligence, sarcasm, competitiveness, books
Pro-Athlete MC: low intelligence (-1), sarcasm (+1), competitiveness (+1), books (0)
Sarcastic athlete will still have a chance to snog the scientist.
JimD does such a great job with all this, I kind of hold ZE:SH as the high standard. This would work in a scenario where the author wants all the customization options and coding to go with it. Only acting really incompatible would lock you out of a romance. Thereâs even degrees of relationship, like the athlete is good for some fun but wonât hold up at a dinner party.
Otherwise, do some flags with choices to make sure theyâre not dreamy-eyed if youâre always nasty to them. Unless the RO is really into that⌠
(Bored at work on a mandatory Sunday, writing too muchâŚ)
1 Like
The stats affecting romance is one of most ridiculous invention ever when It is bad implemented.
I look around and donât see people mating based on same stat. Quite the opposite frankly. Many shy people are attracted to people more bold or brave. I am very bold and feel attracted to men more calmed and shy that ground me and calm my inner hurricane a little. Doctors romancing athletes , Lawyers romancing chefs etc all is surrounding me. In fact is more usual here that you donât have same skills and hobbies thatyour parner. Opposite attracts.
However, I like when romance are based upon certain personality stats based in Ro background and story.
For instance I could see a very dominant and zelot guy only want romance people shy and from their same morality or religion.
I could see a monk not wanting romance a sinner lustful rogueâŚ
But pair people in based a skill set is stupid in my humble opinion.
Sorry guy you are great; funny charming, intelligent. But your level in Farming is bellow 40 sorry I canât kiss you⌠Say no one ever in real life.
8 Likes
Agree with this.
In my opinion, relationships should be based on how you treat the person and in not having stats they are totally against. People that likes different things can have very good relationships all the time, you donât need to be from an specific background to do so.
And as Mara said, I understand if someone with a very strong moral compass wouldnât want to romance a ruthless character with no compassion. Or how an evil RO wouldnât want to romance a really good person, but a doctor dating someone that doesnât have a âhigh standard jobâ? Sure, why not?
6 Likes
I mean⌠Iâve been on both sides of the âhaving standardsâ. It happens in real life. Theyâre not universal standards, but they exist. In how many games are you âon the runâ or some other kind of homeless? How appealing is that to a non-adventurer?
This doesnât even need to be an offense-triggering thing. I didnât stop dating early 20s because they were in entry level jobs. But it was almost always an issue that they felt like shit because they could never take me out to dinner. Iâm over it. Then, I felt like shit with a tv lawyer because I couldnât pay for anything he wanted to do. Much easier to date someone at least on the same continent of lifestyle.
NPCs and ROs are not all our idealized version of the penultimate champion of all human variances. Real people have preferences and standards. In a game platform with a very rudimentary variable system, youâre limited âopen world datingâ or something based on user choices and/or stats. I donât think gender is the only user-selected stat that could effect whether or not a ârealisticâ person would want to get romantically involved with them. If not âopen world datingâ, then user choices do determine âromance scaleâ in some way whether or not that term is used and itâs just choosing into or out of a path.
I donât remember anyone bringing up skills as a romance stat. That would only be something really specific like a high cooking skill romancing a foodie. Kinda silly otherwise.
1 Like
In Spain at least; The high standard job has never been a issue lol. We have nobles romance jobless. Singers romancing rumba teachers ⌠I assisted to a fancy private school ruled by nuns many people there were or nobles, or rich people or son daughters of military officers. My dad is just a simple electronic technician that building and prepare militaryships. I was there by scholarship not because money. I and many others never had an issue about not dating as teens or anything simila because not being rich. In fact some of them ended married.
I am a lawyer and never have a issue romance someone jobless. And neither no one I know In fact i know several judges romancing jobless or waiters ⌠Nobody never say anything about it.
Maybe is a cultural thing?
1 Like
I think itâs better not to lock friendship or romance behind stats, but make stat-based options to interact with characters.
For example, if your character talks to Princess Fluffyflowers, who is compassionate and studies nature, your options can be like this:
"I see some healing herbs growing here! Nature is both beautiful and good, isn't it?" says Fluffyflowers.
Your response:
*choice
*if (nature_knowledge > 50) #Start an intelligent conversation about flowers.
You talk about flowers for hours. Looks like you have a common interest.
fluffyflowers_rel +20
*goto pick_flowers
#Yes, that's great.
fluffyflowers_rel +10
*goto pick_flowers
*if (ruthless > 50) #I hate flowers. Healing herbs are for weaklings.
Only strong people who can heal from their ruthless spirit deserve to live!
"You are so ruthless, ${mc_name}!"
fluffyflowers_rel -50
*goto fluffyflowers_runs_from_you
*if ((ruthless > 50) and (speech > 50)) #I think nature is dark. Like my tortured soul!
You start a passionate speech about your dark past, hinting that only Fluffyflowers' love can redeem you.
"I can't change you, ${mc_name}. You should work on your character flaws yourself!"
fluffyflowers_rel -20
*goto fluffyflowers_runs_from_you
*if (ruthless < 50) #No time to talk! Our friends need these herbs.
"You are right, ${mc_name}!"
fluffyflowers_rel +20
*goto pick_flowers
6 Likes
Currently Iâve got relationship and romance tied to different stats, and Iâve sorta got stuff like that, a few choices which will give you a point into the romance stats youâd otherwise miss if you didnât pass a particular stat check
2 Likes
Then Is a game i certainly not buy. Please make it certainly clear in demo to donât make players feel cheated. Iwould certainly be pissed find out after buying it that is is a game i would not play at all.
That remember me one of my most hated moments in a game when I discovered a romance game make me impossible romance a guy because I didnât bought him a pair of socks and I have to much intelligence ⌠AFTER PLAYING FOR MORE THAN TEN HOURS
5 Likes
For me it depends on the type of stat youâre tying it to, and where the cutoff is. For flavor text âthe relationship will progress anyway, youâll just get different scenesââput those in as much as your little coding fingers can manage. That makes replay awesome and the relationship feel more organic. As for cutting off the relationship behind stat checks⌠Principle/personality stats are okay in a limited framework (ehâŚ), but no to skill stats. I HATE when VNs do that to me; instead of playong the game, I just end up with my nose in a guide.
Iâm not against, say, having a corruption stat and if you max it out, the super loyal soldier wonât trust you enough to do the relationship, but Iâm against say, having the same thing happen if you donât have high combat. People generally want to get along with their partners, but they donât have to do the same things to get to that point.
That being said, ideally the relationship stat is the determining factor and just increases/decreases with certain decisions (training in combat gives you extra time/scenes with soldier, or insinuating you want to destroy the status quo cheeses him off). Then you can, if you feel like adding the extra complexity, do variations of the relationshipâso if you max corruption and still win soldier over you seduce him to the dark side, or if your combat is high you kick ass into the stratosphere.
6 Likes
I donât plan to cut off any relationships apart from 2 het and 2 gay romances, just allow players to progress earlier/get a slightly different experience if they have certain stats, sorta similar to @catorrinaâs third point
Iâve got a bonus romance point tied to going to the gym and also having high strength with a character, whereas characters who donât have high strength or choose not to go to the gym wonât be able to get that point until later on
5 Likes