Julia likes animals confirmed 
Even better!
The thing with the Senate for me is that I canât ever find a reason to genuinely support them (the only time I ever choose them over the Foederati is so that I can hopefully eventually fuck them over with the help of Ceto lol).
Even if you broadly support the Consulâs aims for reform and greater rights for the people as an idealistic Prefect, the âpeopleâ sheâs referring to are wealthy matricians like her.
Itâs obvious from the conversations you have with her, her disdainful, superior attitude and demeanour, that she doesnât give a toss about plebs like us (and is only really giving us the time of day because weâre in a position of power). She doesnât exactly hide the fact either that sheâs only doing things that help the common people because itâs what Ceto wants (who she feels she need the support of to further her aims) - notice how if you agree to increase the grain dole, you gain approval from Ceto and the people, but not from Consul/Senate.
If youâre a male Prefect, you have even less reason to support her. She doesnât particularly care about even the common woman, and the common man even less so. Supporting her will, if anything, push menâs rights back, not further them.
I donât actually have an issue with the way the Senate as a whole are written necessarily, but I do wish the Consul was characterised a tiny bit differently. As is, she comes across to me simply as emblematic of whatâs wrong with the Senate, and, as a character, isnât particularly sympathetic.
I should make clear that I donât think the other major characters and factions are paragons of virtue by contrast by any means (and they clearly have their own issues, as has been highlighted by others in this thread already), but as someone who typically plays as an idealistic, male Prefect I can at least roleplay ways for why I might like and even support them.
Ceto, for example, is for sure shady as hell (and probably is manipulating us to tacitly support other goals she has that could be destructive), but at least I can imagine the possibility that she might actually be earnest and could help change Iudia for the better (for everyone, regardless of their gender or station).
The Consul and the Senate, however? Supporting them to me is ultimately just helping prop up further the wealthy, misandristic elites. No, thanks.
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I have recently played the update, and Domina Azan has outdone herself. Darius being ambitious is not a surprise, him being non Attila apprentice it was
-However the more the time pass, the more iâm thinking spymaster MC should be put in the fraud list. There are simply too many things they are left ignorant, that has end up souring my opinion about this background (Vittoria stealing the Senate/Foederati, them planning to take the capital, Darius walking around the capital, Persian elite royal guard being there gear and stuff. Which raise the question⌠How they manage to kept themeselves sharp and drilled without anyone noticing it?)
-I appreciate Ibin being just a foil for a prefect that romance Julia
-I like Vittoria, i respect Vittoria, i also kinda like that she represent an old classic (usurped princess taking back her throne from the usurpers), unfortunately the tempistic of her rebellion doesnât make her any favor (yeah,letâs try to take the throne when non Attila is approaching very brilliant idea), that and the fact i understandbly rank very high on her death list.
My Prefect: âSorry kid, unlike with your mom this isnât personal for meâ.
Just a question Domina⌠So somoene was saying the MC can end up as Aetius, which is a very belieavable ending, assuming you do some specific choice, but what if we end up as Sulla or Diocletian. We fix the problem, retire to private life and spend the rest of our day frequenting questionable company like prostitute and/or actors(if we want), while writing our own biography like the former did, or planting cabbages like the later did. That in my opinion should definitely become an achievment :âOh Augusta/Almarik/Consentia/Ceto , if you only know how good are my cabbages you wonât ask me to return back to the p#litical arenaâ
P.S. Small curiosity did an Hannibal like figure ever emerged in the settings? The Punic war is one of my favorite historical period.
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We do have a decent reason to support the Senate. Namely the ruler we were forced to serve. Sc#lla and Julia. The first doesnât need explanation for why she sucked, and her heirs were as bad as her, the later believe in Divine right to rule (curiosly enough the âGoddessâ claimed she has guided Julia and her predecessors. Which should be enough of a red flag for me)
It make sense for the MC to began to think there is something wrong with the system, and perhaps the creation of some decent check are needed, just in case a Scilla or a Caligula should emerge.
A bit of topic but the author once compared Julia to Aurelian. Which make sense considering that while the later was very sucessfuly as a soldier Emperor, he kinda blundered with his reform of the currency and you can argue that him being offed before he could go in war against the Sassanids potentially spared his reputation. Which could also be the case for Caesar considering his health issue.
PS. Iâm of the opinion that the best alternative timeline, is one where Leta is in charge and Julia is kept on a leash.
I never claimed or implied the contrary. But in a way you could make the same argument for the Foederati.
Of course thereâs something wrong with the system, but I personally donât think helping the Senate is the way to go about it.
A checks and balances type system sounds great in theory, but what the Senate propose is entirely self-serving - they want to be able to reign in the monarchâs power so as to further and maintain their own selfish interests, not out of some altruistic concern for the people as a whole.
Personally, with a Paragon Augusta by my side, I would rather tear down the whole Senate, and create something new in its place that actually has everyoneâs best interests at heart (not just a select few).
I know you didnât. My point essentially is that gradually moving away from the autocracy that is currently in place to some sort of quasi-plutocracy (which is effectively what youâd get with what the Senate want) isnât really much of an improvement.
I donât disagree about the Foederati, but I donât think they pretend theyâre being altruistic. Itâs obvious that, above all else, they want greater rights and respect for themselves (a sentiment which I understand). I can work with that.
The Senate (or, at least, the Consul) on the other hand put on this veneer of caring about the âpeopleâ, when in reality they just care about themselves. Perhaps there are a few good, kind, individuals within it, but as an institution itâs parasitic (which is why I think it would be better to tear it down and start anew).
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Hi, I think I found an error?
I was romancing Ceto as a male Prefect, and in the final chapter she asked me to appoint her to the Imperial council - except, Iâm pretty sure, I already did that (when she asked us in an earlier chapter)?
I think you hit the nail on the head as to why Consentia isnât clicking for me the way the other characters do.
She is the Senate, but thatâs all she is. You donât get the sense thereâs an entire person to crack open beyond the republican rhetoricâwhich I feel might contribute to the Senate route being less popular as a whole (and even from those who do go Senate, I get the sense most pick it as a result of Ceto, instead).
Contrast Amalrik, who represents the foederati interests but also has his own inner identity going ons beyond that. Or Ceto, who blurs the line between peopleâs champion and self-serving scoundrel in a way that keeps you guessing and entertained. Consentia is so⌠normalâand exactly what youâd expect in every scene she appears in, she needs some pizzazz somewhere.
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Advice Iâve always tried to follow when it comes to introducing a potentially sympathetic character is that you should show them doing something positive, either for the PoV character or for someone or something which the reader is already supposed to feel unambiguous sympathy for. Thatâs why I started off by introducing the Duke of Wulfram (who Iâd argue is Consentiaâs closest parallel here) the way I did - by giving a speech which lays out his political position, yes, but also by inviting you to dinner and saying nice things about you and the people youâve spent the past two games with.
Granted, I then proceeded to kinda fumble the follow-through by not giving him any existing sympathetic characters as allies - donât do that.
Consentiaâs opening is her basically arguing that the Empireâs frontline troops should not have access to weapons which will help them do their jobs, and then blowing you off if you disagree with her. I think that alone makes a lot of people favour the Foederati, and in a way where they canât really see any more positive aspects to the Senatorial faction if they choose to go against them. Thatâs not necessarily a bad thing, but it does mean that first interaction will âlock inâ the initial impression for a lot of players, and Iâm not sure if thatâs whatâs desired.
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I feel like heâs much bigger on the Manslaughter and Mansplaining (delivering exposition is a male-coded gender role in Gruthungian culture)
checks again
Oh fuck, you made him pregnant again, didnât youâŚ
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Ok that had me chuckle a long amount of time but agreed.
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Hello, what stats do I need to have to convince a paragon Augusta to not do the private funeral of Julia but the public funeral?
I love random lore drops like this. So Julia does have a heart!
(Obviously, we knew this already but itâs an endearing fact to learn).
Despite my (and my MCâs) issues with her, I did do the romance and marriage route. At least until I got to do the âet tu, hubby?â 
See but this is why I love Consentia and the Senate. Sheâs written authentic to the POV of a late antique Senator. Sheâs not meant to appeal to modern sensibilities. Sheâs a historical (fantasy) character, warts and all. I love her sense of superiority because thatâs what someone in her place would think. Q. Aurelius Symmachus once referred to the late antique Senate as the âpars melior humani generisâ â literally the better part of the human race. More educated, more cultured, etc.
They should talk like that. I have no problems with that.
My issue isnât that this doesnât appeal to us â it shouldnât â I just see a disconnect between that and other unappealing characters like Julia.
And maybe itâs for the reasons others articulated below: we donât get a chance to get close to Consentia before most ppl form a negative impression.
Thatâs a good point about the approval. Arguably I think we should also get Senate approval. Consentia does speak approvingly of the bond between Senate and People, and the late antique senate did take this very seriously.
The first few chapters of Peter Brownâs Through the Eye of a Needle, a magisterial account of wealth and giving in late antiquity between the old classical modes and the new Christian modes, outline this in great detail. The classical senatorial ideal was of civic elites that possessed an amor civicus: a love of the city. There was a symbiotic relationship between city senates and the populace: the senate provisioned food, public buildings, roads, etc and the populace honored them with offices, inscriptions, etc.
Simply being rich without the duties of public service and attendant honors given for good service? Meaningless. Utterly alien to the late antique mind. At least, the traditional mindset. Increasing numbers of people tried to escape the âburdensâ of civic service by gaining exemptions by joining the imperial bureaucracy etc (but this was also bc imperial service provided a path to honors and prestige that didnât involve spending your wealth on the people â another reason to loathe the monarchy!)
Iâd commend this particular book to everyone, including @Azan for the early chapters to characterize the late antique senatorial mindset.
It was a very essential partnership. Consentia and the Senate should care about this a LOT. The Senate routinely pestered Roman emperors to increase the grain dole â Michele Salzmanâs recent work (The Falls of Rome) on the very active and vigorous role the Senate played in its traditional role of caring for the people and the City when emperors wouldnât is instructive in this regard.
So as mentioned above, I do like the snobbery and elitism but I do think she ought to stress civic euergetism a bit more. That is, the traditional classical ideal of civic elites paying for the provision of public benefits and buildings and caring a lot about the support and acclaim of the people. The whole optimate âeff the plebsâ mindset doesnât fit in late antiquity.
This is a great point. I like how in many respects we play the villains in classical heroic stories of fallen royalty.
This is also why I find Victoria very sympathetic despite our opposition to her. She doesnât even know how rotten her mother is â she really sees herself as the hero here! Her POV was so wonderful in that regard.
This might be an area for some improvement along the lines Iâve articulated above. The Senate really ought to care about its civic duties â their wealth was meaningless without the honors given to them by a grateful populace. This was the classical mindset. If they just sat on top of their money there just wasnât any point.
This is the big thing that was lost when late antiquity to the Middle Ages: that civic mindset of the old elite disappeared.
You do get to learn about her a little later but only just. Sheâs very very reserved and that might be why people find her less accessible than Amalrik/Antonius or Ceto or Darius.
Heh. I kind of loved that though. Itâs a very Roman, er, Iudian, mindset. As someone role playing a Iudian and not someone from today, her mindset and argument made total sense.
Or if we want to make it modern: are we really gonna give nukes to Blackwater mercs? Like, no. Nobody wants that.
Same thing. 
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Oh, it absolutely is, but the problem with simply flashbanging a person with (ostensibly) modern sensibilities with the mores and mindsets of a past or fictional society so different from ours is that the resulting culture clash is likely to make them unsympathetic to it.
The easiest way to get buy-in would be to start with the resonant qualities of that culture, and hit the player with the dissonant ones after theyâve already bought in.
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Thatâs fair. Not all of us are buried in that mindset daily, haha. A game need to think of everyone in the audience.
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Your relationship with Augusta needs to be at least 50, and her strength needs to be at most 80. Any stronger and she refuses to do it.
Similar logic, opposite result: my Prefect sides with Foederati because he is of the opinion that the Senate undermining Empress is bad for Iudia (and having all those swords on your side instead of against you doesnât hurt either).
thanks for the help
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Yeah, this is a legitimate roleplay. The imperial bureaucracy in the late Roman Empire was frequently (but not always, see Cassiodorus under the post-Roman Ostrogothic Kingdom) hostile to the traditional senatorial aristocracy. Particularly as many of them were either ex-military or otherwise of lowlier birth than senatorial aristocrats, the two sides didnât get along. Of course, the imperial officials held a lot more political and military power but lacked the social clout of the senators.
A pro-Senate prefect like mine is probably more atypical â but not impossible, as I noted. Cassiodorus often counseled the Romanized Ostrogothic Queen Amalasuintha to be a friend to the Senate. Thatâs basically the model Iâm following. (Except, of course, working for the Iudian monarch, not the âbarbarianâ one).
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