Yes, what I eventually decided is that I need to decide early what characteristics all my MCs have as well as the characteristics that the player can choose. I need to design a personality system.
I’m not a pantser by any means, I plotted out the story and have got a good feel on my secondary characters. But… I didnt put much thought on the MC themselves. I was thinking of doing a blank slate and doing some opposed pairs as personality stats. But I don’t think that’s enough anymore. I need specifics if I’m going to continue. So that’s my next step.
I feel dumb for not realizing this sooner. But it shall be corrected.
This is why many authors have different stages; see how something works, then make a correction if needed.
Writing IF is different than writing other genres, but the core will always be your narrative writing.
Devising mechanics is not an easy task for most. I believe on my 5th stats page iteration and I have not opened my public WiP thread yet.
I also revise my outlines and code skeletons as I go, which some people do not.
Don’t hesitate to ask about anything that comes up, either here or in the Choice Script help section of the forums. There are plenty of people who will help you figure this all out.
Also, remember, there are many ways of doing this, so don’t get discouraged if something does not work for you because there will be other ways to accomplish things.
Trying to provide a choice for every line of dialogue is something that will drive you off the edge sooner rather than later.
Personally, I prefer to give the players only the important choices, and then write out the minor or inconsequential responses in the text. This provides something like the fuzzy outline of a character - one which can be further shaped by leaning heavily on whatever personality stats you’ve given the MC - but it does take some careful tweaking to ensure that you don’t make the MC say something at odds with the way the player wants them to speak or act.
That’s why playtesting is so important, because if a “minor” response which occurs between choices lands in a way which gets a playtester to think “My MC would never say that”, then they’ll tell you, and you can alter it to make it land accordingly.
I don’t think there’s such a thing as a completely blank slate character. ‘Set’ vs. ‘blank’ characters are a spectrum, rather than a strict dichotomy. Even the tone in which you write descriptions (because they are implied to be how the player character sees things), says things about character, because no description is truly ‘neutral.’
Well, at the very least, most aren’t.
I think others have covered what I’d say fairly well. It can help to track the personality traits that have the most bearing on your story so the non-choice text where the player character is speaking or acting still reflects the player’s choices in some cases, but it’s also not terrible to have things about the character be established already. I find that I am often most immersed in roleplaying, personally, when I am working from some basis for the character forward, such as a bit of backstory, or even a starting attitude or character flaw that I can either lean into or guide them away from.
Of course, not everyone thinks that way, and it may be worth letting the player have some influence over what that backstory or flaw might be, but I wouldn’t say a blank slate player character is necessary to write a choice game. Nor even necessary to write one well.
The very premise of a story and the basic parameters of a setting will stake out certain bounds and assumptions your character will have to inhabit. While it is possible for a story set in a 13th century rural village to star an MC who speaks exclusively in modern zoomer colloquialisms (“I uh- rizzed up a time travelling sorceror, it was no cap bussin’.”), it isn’t going to be expected by the player.
The modern colloquialisms … some even in multilingual sayings
I know many think a “flaw” is needed in mechanics design, but I emphatically disagree and feel many times a forced implimentation of flaws do more harm than good in game design.
I think this applies more to linear fiction than games, because the “flaw” when it comes to game design almost invariably defaults to a lack of skill or ability to achieve the character’s goals, which is where the player comes in - either to guide the MC to those goals by making decisions for them, by adding their own skill to the character’s own, or both.
You’re right that execution of such a mechanic is some sort of gateway to “overcome” but in 90% or more of the systems I’ve experienced (at all levels of gaming) they end up punishing the player in an attempt to add such things as depth and character.
Things that better writing, and implementation of systems in general, would address without the “penalty” or punishment that forcing flaws upon players result in.
Edit: Just to be clear – many writers and game designers disagree with my take and very successfully use “flaws” and “weaknesses” in their system deployments. Off the top of my head, I can think of at least three best-selling writers in IF that use these devises.
I’m not saying it’s an intentional thing. I’m saying that the “flaw” which MCs in games possess is one which is inherent to the medium. The MC cannot achieve their goals by themselves because the very nature of a game means that player agency and input is at some level required - so the “flaw” is “resolved” by having the player successfully engage with the mechanics and play the game in a way which the MC (without player input) obviously can’t.
I think we were speaking about two different things, because I am in 100% agreement with this.
I was referring to “flaws” and “weaknesses” used by designers to limit the player and increase the difficulty of achieving “success”.
The systems that make you chose a drug addiction, a hot blooded temper or some other limiter that would otherwise not be there.
Some, like the one deployed in the Zombie Exodus games allow a voluntary choosing of such things like having delusions or a nephew to deal with, but other games and projects force such flaws as part of their character creation.
These are not inherit flaws in any engine I am aware of.
Yea, I think we are arguing the same point but approaching the issue from opposite ends.
If an author understands the nature of the medium, they can avoid the need to implement the design decision I am against, if they so chose to.
Yeah, I’m thinking on the level of the medium itself. I think you’re talking about within individual games where picking a flaw is a part of character creation.
I’m mostly arguing that the latter is superfluous because of the former. While the protagonist of any compelling story needs a “flaw” to overcome, the medium of narrative-driven games themselves provide one inherent to the medium, which renders the need to choose or be given one within the game’s narrative space superfluous.
Other than the bike ride aspect this sounds delightful! I’m glad to hear you’re okay!
I can’t imagine they would, as it would be a crediting nightmare… I can’t even imagine how they would split the profits.
Swedish and Finnish both? We got ourselves a polyglot here! WOO! (I’m actually kind of upset with myself because I’ve effectively given up my spanish and japanese learning on duolingo for a while.)
It made sense, but dear god what is wrong with this person to stand like that.
hahahahahahahhaha XD Schadenfreude is delightful. (that said, I’m so sorry for your pain. XD)
I laughed. XD
Because any creative outlet is inherantly a practice in aesthetical masochistic self-flagellation.
HAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAH OMG. I laughed so hard, this was hilarious.
I 100% agree with this.
I’ve also got players saying they’re dedicated to being an evil concubine, so I know the feeling here.
You. Players like you. Are what I am writing my game for. XD
clutch pearls and gasp YOU FIEND!
YAY!!!
holy shit, i have this game, this is fantastic
This sounds like such a therapeutic and fun thing to do. o.o …I may have to make a note to do this for my game too.
XD It’d be hilarious if it was.
I’m with the creature here, Vortex is the one being rude. XD
… Now I’m imagining a game that’s touted as just a historical, with no reference to isekai or transmigration… ONLY FOR THERE TO BE AN OPTION TO UNLOCK AN ISEKAI/TRANSMIGRATION CHARACTER BACKSTORY BY DOING THIS. for example, if you play it through normally, you never find out this other character is transmigrated, but if you choose one of these options, they freak out like “YOU TOO?! OH MY GOD”
I do not have a snippet to share this month. With the combination of my husband and I’s anniversary, the Mabon celebration, and just life in general, I have not had time to work on my game very much. Wish me luck going forward, honestly. XD
Of course, before you reach that point in the game, you can die by failing a skill check in the very first room that seems a lot more low-stakes than “dodging the bill”, so YMMV.
That’s nothing. Every Finn who’s gone through the (Finnish) school system in at least last fifty years or so (I think) should have at least a passing knowledge of both (although they probably have forgotten the ones they don’t use), and English or German. At minimum. It just comes with being a Finn.
It’s actually super comfortable if you have a suitable backpack. Also he’s being really uncomfortable in the situation and he’s doing it to not freak out.
Of course he is, he’s Vortex. But the implication is that he understood what the creature said, and it was a series of expletives.
Good luck!
I think I died by turning on the light. I didn’t even get to the tie!
But I like how you knew EXACTLY what I was talking about with no details. Disco Elysium truly is memorable event after event. I’d say I need to play it again (and I do, especially because I never finished - I forget if it’s because my laptop fired, if I went functionally blind during the playthrough, or both), but I’m on ME3 right now and on the 28th House of Light comes out (and Heart of the Machine is also slated to come out this year) so mega-ooops. Playing the game will benefit from me forgetting more things about it, anyway.
This sounds amazing. They can be the Spider-Mans pointing meme.
That reminds me, in my villainess isekai project, I wanna give people the choice to use modern slang and confuse the heck out of everyone, though I’m not sure if I’m gonna track that among the reputation stats or separately (like, maybe there are some phrases you can use repeatedly, and I can track how often they’re each used, and if you’re otherwise regarded as a refined member of society, other nobles could start picking up the slang xD).
