Ahh I think, now that you mention this, that 'self-insert’ing in nature is what makes me so uncomfortable with first person perspective IF in general. I really don’t like not having a distinguishing line between the character and myself, if that makes sense. For some reason, first person blurs the line more than second person.
Personally I am a fan of ROs finding people outside of the main character if they aren’t romanced. I prefer thinking of ROs as people, as others have said. I consider each branch of a story to be it’s own… universe? Like, parallel universe where something else happens and things develop significantly differently. In that sense, it’s just amusing to me to see all the different variations of what could be occur.
The only times I would have an issue with an RO finding love elsewhere is if it is meant to flaunt to the MC or player about their relationship or has the RO’s relationship used as a kind of… tool? Like if they make it a focus of envy, or something. [In a few, rarer cases, ROs will get with someone in order to deliberately try to make you the player jealous, and will force the main character you are playing to have specific emotions or reactions even if it wouldn’t fit them as a character. These would in their nature fit within the distasteful category for me. I generally dislike anything that would present a choice though then later discount said choice and force emotions onto a character you are playing even if they don’t fit.]
I’m realizing very quickly that this being what I like about RO/RO relationships isn’t a common thing
I think I’ve talked about this before, but I’ve always liked knowing that these characters can find that fulfillment in other people; not because they’re compensating or because one is better than the other, but because there are so many opportunities and possibilities for love, and ways it can be expressed. I like it not because it’s undermining what that RO and the MC could have, but because there are SO MANY "Something Special"s in the world. So much love in the world, and I hate the idea that the RO’s have to forgo ever feeling that way with someone else just because the MC doesn’t feel that way for them, in that particular route. The MC and the RO have Something Special when they’re together, but the two RO’s can have Something Special differently, can have a relationship and have it be wildly diametric to what the MC could have, and that’s awesome to me. Seeing the diversity of human life, and the differences in the way people interact.
They can both be sweet, but a different kind of sweet, a different kind of special, and… that warms my heart. Love can be found anywhere, at any time, with so many people- there isn’t ever a point where it’s impossible for you. I like that feeling. (Maybe this is just me being Aro and getting uncomfortable with the idea of being “beholden” to another, but the sweetest part of romance to me is how much it can be shared, and how many people a character can be heart-tuggingly compatible with- given time and effort. The intricacies of emotions and relationships have always been fascinating to me, considering I don’t experience them “normally.” (this includes friendships djsnfhjdfs))
I don’t care if ROs get together with each other or whatever if I am not pursuing them.
I draw the line when the author pulls a Tale of Heroes on me however. The whole Ignis thing seems designed to be a slap in the face to the MC and player.
That’s really interesting, because for me it’s very much the other way around.
First person feels like the MC is a distinct character, who is telling me about their life, while second person feels more like the MC is connected to me and under my control, like I am playing as them.
I have different reasoning, probably because I just can’t self-insert at all.
I prefer first person for these games because it makes it easier to RP. Makes it easier for me to get into the MC’s head and create a distinct character–distinct from other MC’s, I mean.
The whole “you do x” thing makes that more difficult, partially because it feels like the author is dictating almost everything, instead of my character telling the story. So it’s limiting for me, and makes getting into the MC’s head a challenge. It could be because I need to know why the MC is behaving a certain way–in first person, I feel that’s more in my character’s control, while in second person I’m trying to figure out wtf the author’s goal is and if they are viewing the character the same way I do.
In stat raisers, it tends not to matter–the characters feel dull and lifeless, or more like caricatures of some archetype, than a “real” person. In a character-driven story, then it starts making a difference to me, because if I can’t control how the character develops and their reasoning for their actions, then I have to find some way to connect in order to RP it. And that usually involves trying to mindread the author. I suck at mind reading…
Almost every one of these games is written in second person, though, so I’ve learned to live with it. It just makes it a hell of a lot harder to step into the character’s shoes and connect enough with whatever the author wants to care enough to play.
Interestingly enough, I used to prefer 1st person POV for a short period of time before I got exposed to more writing–then I ended up preferring 2nd person POV and felt it was way more immersive lol
It’s not so true for me anymore, but when I first started reading IF I hated 2nd person storytelling. I think it felt to confrontational. Like the author was making me do things. Probably why I still don’t self insert.
I agree with both of these takes, and that’s part of why I’m writing my game in 1st person. (The other is that as an author I find that the easiest tense for me to write in.) I see my MCs as distinct from myself and first person makes it easier for me to see them as a character instead of me.
As for the question of NPCs romancing each other. I like it because it makes the characters feel more real. I also like the idea that an RO can still have a fulfilling relationship if I don’t romance them. The only time I’m against ROs having other romances is if they start the game that way, and MC actually has to break up the relationship. In theory I could like one where an RO starts in a relationship, but the person dies during the game and they fall for MC after, but I can’t recall seeing this anywhere and I think it would be hard to do well. (I don’t mind if it was a past thing that’s clearly over though.)
Oh, that woukd be awful. I haven’t considered that.
That could be neat but the death would need to happen early on and the character given adequate time to grieve and recover. If the game is stand alone then it would need atleast a year time skip in my opinion cause if proper time isnt given then your dancing on the line of takimg advantage of an emotionally hurt and vulnerable person
And that is why I said I was skeptical of it being done right. There would need to be enough time for the character to grieve without messing up the pacing or giving that character less development as a result. Sounds like a tricky balance.
I would be curious to see more games where the PC becomes a third in an existing relationship/marriage, whether as a casual thing or becoming a longer-term/serious triad. The only time I’ve encountered it was in Their Majesties’ Pleasure, but the path I took was with a pair who had a very casual relationship so it wasn’t quite the same. I think a big problem with it as a writer though is that it takes up two romanceable-NPC “slots” and not everyone is into that dynamic, so it adds quite a bit to the cast size.
Play the Infamous demo–you can try to become a third in the G/V marriage or try to break them up (which may blow up in your face).
I liked the poly in Their Majesties’ Pleasure, because the MC didn’t feel like a third wheel, which I guess defeats the purpose of what you all are talking about, since it’s about actually making the MC a third wheel on a bicycle.
Night Market is one that will give just that to you, btw. Milo and Mal are already together, and the MC can third wheel into it by either trying for a poly or romancing one or the other of them. No matter what you do, they will be together and in love. MC isn’t really needed, but they can beg their way into it.
I think those ones are maybe a level of drama that I have to be in the mood for - I liked Their Majesties’ Pleasure because the polyamory was quite chill (not that there’s anything wrong with high-drama relationships, obviously - I just need to be in a particular mood for it!)
I’ve been wondering, because I haven’t gotten a clear picture from all the posts (and they all/mostly seem to be about a specific type of romance arc anyway): is the reaction to non-romanced RO ending up with someone else, to those who don’t want to see it, closer to “I will steer clear of that RO”, or “I won’t touch that whole game with a bargepole”? Because I don’t think I’d have a problem with the former, but the latter does give me pause.
And does it affect the calculation, if a) the romance is drama-free (well, apart from what the stuff outside the romance causes - if your nemesis kidnaps your RO, it’s drama, but hardly the romanace’s fault) and b) it’s not a “you’re my one and only love” type of romance?
Personally, it’s “I will steer clear of the RO”. I think people who like romance in videogames have more than enough games to choose from (even more if they read WIPs) and so we can afford to be picky. That’s why what might sound like a petty reason to not experience RO path to one group of people, might just be a time saver for others.
Without knowing how that looks like in your head, that reminds me of games that treat romance as more of a side thing - like Skyrim. You have a wife, you don’t fight with wife, she might canonically get with Bjorn from the store unless you swoop in and ride on a dragon together.
If I can’t have my differences with an RO then I’m not very interested in romance. I will have my arguments over who should pick up the milk from the store, goddamnit.
Haha. It’s more like you’re trying to stop the end of the world together, so whoever picks the milk from the store must be the one who has five minutes of free time while being near it. In any event, I meant drama in the sense that hinders the starting of a relationship, not drama that happens when you are in a relationship.
It's a bit complex RO situation, so I put it here
The RO in question was originally not intended to be RO; there was this one character who has a relationship with another character, which is kinda plot-relevant (you don’t see much of it, apart from one “glad you’re alive” kiss, but it affects things in the background). However, I couldn’t decide the gender of the character, so I figured I’d make them twins, let the player choose which one they’d want to have as an RO, and let the other one be the one in the relationship. So it’s kinda having a gender-selectable character where two options exist at the same time.
(Like I said, I don’t have a problem if it’s just disregarding the RO, petty reason or not. I just wouldn’t want potential players disregard the whole game just because I couldn’t make my mind about one character’s gender.)
I was so confused by this post but then very amused. (I haven’t played The Night Market yet so can’t speak to whether Milo/Mal are a fun romance but was entertained nonetheless!)
I have been surprised to occasionally see people saying they don’t want to romance characters where they could be polyamorous, even if they don’t get together with someone else if you’re not with them. I don’t know if it’s a general disliking of polyamory even hypothetically, or whether it feels like the polyamory route is signalled as the “correct” one over others, or something else.
For Honor Bound, I decided not to have NPCs getting together with each other, even the triad-romanceable ones. Partly because of some of the discussion here, partly because I got so tired accounting for so many conditional relationship descriptions towards the end of Royal Affairs, and perhaps most importantly, because I felt that the NPCs are not really in states of mind where they would naturally get together with each other without the impetus of the PC leading them into a triad. In one case they’re already friends and don’t have the catalyst to move from that to romance without the PC and in the other they will become friends if neither are romanced but they’re not in emotional places to date each other. They have a bunch of other stuff going on and spending the time needed to make them get together in a way that felt organic would be hard to balance.
