Options you want to have more often and other features and elements you want to see more often in COGs or HGs

[Havenstone]

@DrewWolf2

Most RPG’s have this “introduction period” at the beginning where you pick-up stats easily, name your character maybe, choose class or hair or whatever one can choose.

So do most CoGs. Shaping your character is what the early chapters are centrally about. But in the best games that’s generally done through scenes rich in action, rather than an expository prologue. Sounds like you’ve done a lot to move your game in that direction, but the feedback you’re getting might suggest it still needs to keep moving that way.

To make the game feel less railroady, add options. Try to make every choice block have at least 3 options, and try to end at least 3 in every 4 pages with a choice instead of a naked page break – choice rather than “Next Page” should be the clear norm. If you’re having the reader choose to go east or west, give them a choice of multiple motives for at least one of those options, to expand the choice beyond a binary. If you’ve just described a fantasy landscape, give the protagonist a choice of what they’re feeling or thinking rather than rolling on with a page break.

@DrewWolf2

You are often thrust right into a situation with characters that your character knows, but you do not yet know.

And that’s great – but do your best to throw in something vivid and memorable about the character as soon as you can, so the reader can have a mental “hook” for them beyond their name and basic physical characteristics, and hopefully get invested in them.

@DrewWolf2

Your first sets of choices have less consequence, i.e: you usually can not die in the very beginning.

The not dying part is spot on. But that doesn’t mean your first choices should be low-stakes. You can find ways of giving them appropriate stakes; give a clear and exciting goal for the opening scene (escaping or navigating or acquiring or building something) and let failure be possible but interesting. If the opening scene’s only goal is a meta one (“let’s do character generation!”) it will drag, compared to a scene with a gripping in-narrative goal.

@DrewWolf2

It seems to be more about manipulating the story than enjoying a story

Interacting with the story is essential to popularity in this medium. Give people choices. Those choices may be “fake” in the originally intended sense of fake_choice, i.e. not changing a stat or anything but a bit of flavor text. That will still be more satisfying to the great majority of CoG readers.

In your game right now, there are lots of stat changes without choice – get to the bottom of the page and see Strength +1 or what have you before clicking the Next button. If you gave people a choice, even if that choice still led to Strength +1 no matter what they chose, you’d immediately cut your grumpy feedback by 80%.

@DrewWolf2

, a lot of it feels overtly negative in tone.

I agree, fwiw…but even the harshest ones did generally give a clear sense of what they didn’t like,
I thought. May you have the blessing of thick writerly skin as you take their comments on board, and I hope the harshness of tone eases up.

@DrewWolf2

It would not change how others react to you…would that be a problem?

No. Some readers do like gender-variable text, but they’re massively outnumbered by the readers who are just happy to be able to play under their own pronouns.

@DrewWolf2

Your purpose: this is shrouded in mystery and hinted at…but not defined.

This is a hard balance to get right in any fiction–if I don’t know the main character’s purpose, why do I the reader care about their actions?–and even more so in IF, where you’re asking the reader to make choices for the protagonist without understanding their driving motivation.

A couple possible ways to get round the problem: (1) give the character a clear and gripping sub-goal (steal the Macguffin, even though we only get hints as to why you want the Macguffin until Chapter 12) or (2) have the character’s actions/circumstances be so over-the-top outrageous (you’re the first person in ten thousand years to walk unarmed and blindfolded into the Bowels of Gnaacarax!) that the reader will hopefully be gripped until you reveal the reason for this crazy scenario in Ch 9.

@DrewWolf2

something tells me one should not plug their writing into Hemingway and alter it accordingly

At the end of the day, your style is your own. It’s good to be aware of the norms around adverbs etc. so that if you go purpler-than-normal, you’re doing so on purpose and to an intended effect.

[DrewWolf2]

Havenstone… thankyou for the very detailed feedback. I just watched some Stephen King interview videos on these subjects (He is not my favorite author…he just came up first) …He says “Plot is the last resort of a bad writer” or something to that ilk. It was actually refreshing to hear a famous writer resonate some core ideas you may have about creating and writing a story. It was refreshing to then read your feedback.

I walked around outside and paced and thought, I could put in eye color, skin tone, and height, and have that reflected in descriptions made about the MC… And I can see why that would seem cool to a reader. I will likely add that in. Anything that boost emersion. As it stands, there are descriptions of clothes, but none of the face or about body type.

Thick Skin: Thankyou for that prayer. I have read other threads and not seen as much heat as here…but…I am getting better feedback in that heat. But, I do not need heat to listen. Everyone has my full attention since the initial posting while I acclimated to the barrage of critiques. I have been very busy making changes related to those critiques which demonstrates my desire to listen to them. I also don’t remember declaring myself “Worlds best writer” so no need to respond as such. I am learning; but, I have been writing everyday now for about 2 years. Not papers or work emails, creative writing related to this book and now forum writing related to this forum. Just through this habit I have further developed a writing voice and style. This is one thing a writer likely wont change. And another good writer likely won’t try to steer their voice one way or the other…but more likely they would try and bolster it. I’m just trying to think of good writing teachers I have had in the past…you know, the ones that encourage you to get published…anyhow

Word Crisper: I was trying to find something where an author discussed the use of writing apps and how much one should use one…I can’t find anything…mostly just about how useful they are… I can see them being very useful for writing papers or dissertations…but…even Mr. King mentioned how readers expect elegance in the writing. He actually sort of sunk his shoulders a bit when he said this… My story is set in pre-bronze and takes on an older English writing style sometimes. This is not in the crisper algorithm I suspect. When I had the great comma crisis of 2023, I just took it upon myself to learn the rule I was breaking. This would likely be a better approach to cleaning up writing then running it through a machine…so you know what you know…rather than just recognizing when somethings off, but can’t say why… For example, if someone said " Mr. Woolfolk, you are breaking the non-coordinated comma rule." I would look that up and immediately understand the problem. No need to send me to a website with every single comma rule under the sun…I already don’t know what i did wrong, right? oh man…i spent half the day figuring that out. Now they haunt me in my sleep… What are the consequences of relying on writing apps I wonder? Recognizing elegance, or verbal diarrhea, but not being able to articulate it? To know the rule behind it? Or is this just the next “spell checker” argument…and I of course, need spell checker to live and love it.

[LiliArch]

@Havenstone

have the character’s actions/circumstances be so over-the-top outrageous (you’re the first person in ten thousand years to walk unarmed and blindfolded into the Bowels of Gnaacarax!) that the reader will hopefully be gripped until you reveal the reason for this crazy scenario in Ch 9

…I want to see this… preferably in a way that isn’t simply the whole game being over-the-top comedy.

[Havenstone]

@DrewWolf2

“Plot is the last resort of a bad writer”

I love a good plot, and think plot-heavy fiction gets shorter shrift than it deserves thanks to a character-centric dogma in literary tastes. (Don’t even get me started on the disrespect for setting.) Good characters without a good plot won’t necessarily make a good game, in particular.

At the same time, compelling characters are really, really important. That includes the main one; in Choicescript games, that’s generally achieved through giving compelling choices that reveal/shape the protagonist’s character. Customization choices like hair color, height, etc. are well-liked by a number of fans, but they’re no substitute for choices that reveal what the MC values. Those are the ones that make readers pause and think, and leave the longest impression.

Try to start putting those choices in as soon as you can. You don’t need to pack in the char-gen choices up front. In my own game, you pick gender and social class pretty early, but picking your name comes later, orientation even later (when the ROs start popping up), and I just put in a choice of hair length in the revised Game 2 Chapter 1, almost a million words into the story. Fill that early game space with choices that reveal character. Is your MC brave or cautious, idealistic or cynical, ruthless or softhearted? If you know the kind of choices that the story outcome will eventually hinge on – like whether the MC is willing to sacrifice their friends for their ideals, or make their robots into killing machines or autonomous hive minds, or wield a pack of lies to achieve the greater good – make sure those choices start coming in the early game.

@DrewWolf2

Just through this habit I have further developed a writing voice and style. This is one thing a writer likely wont change.

Your voice and style will probably change as you keep writing, and even more as you keep reading. At any rate, mine certainly has. You’ll become more self-aware of the influences on your voice (and the possible alternatives), absorb new things you like into it, and take criticisms on board. Over time you’ll shift and grow.

@DrewWolf2

For example, if someone said " Mr. Woolfolk, you are breaking the non-coordinated comma rule." I would look that up and immediately understand the problem.

I wouldn’t have been able to tell you the name of that rule, but I could have told you your use of commas was off. Most people with good grammar have absorbed the rules through extensive reading, not through memorizing a grammar algorithm with names for all the rules. Even if they can throw the name of a rule at you, that can be convenient for your initial Googling but won’t alone tell you whether it’s a “real” rule or just a preference encoded in one subset of style guides while contested by others.

I’m afraid Google work is still going to be your best bet when someone challenges your use of grammar. You can’t expect your readers to be able to cite a rule by its label, or to know the formal names of the parts of speech and verb forms that you’re arguably abusing. That’s just not how most people grasp language.