It’s tricky finding a balance… I know what you mean and I apologise if I came across as anti-queer here.
On top of that, with more and more games including options to play as trans, enby, gf etc… how handle romance there?
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To answer the OP post. I don’t view it as punishing the player when a certain NPC requires the PC to have a certain “sexual orientation” “personalities” “gender identity” “Etc.”
As a hobby writer of a story/game it’s not just about coding it for the player to enjoy the game, but I’ve already established the NPCs personalities, gender identity, as well as their preferred sexual orientation. It’s not just a matter of flipping their gender or making the NPCs “Playersexual” basically means, whatever race or gender the player’s character is, the romanceable character finds the player character attractive and can be romanced. I wrote the NPC to be like that and to just make the NPC “Playersexual” just because people got mad/disappointed/heartbroken/deceived/etc. whatever emotion, to me it feels like an unnecessary fan service.
I created the NPCs because they have a purpose, more than their RO status. They need to have the worth? (Not sure if that is a correct word) to function for the story. They need to let their individuality be known else it would seem like despite being “NPC A” or “NPC B” the end result is that it’s the same thing. I would want to showcase to the Player that the NPCs be RO or not are characters that the Player Character needs understand to really know who they are and a realization as to why they are like that.
I hope I made sense with whatever I wrote if not… well then here are some topics that I have located that would be helpful or at least I think they are helpful with the OP’s topic. The discussion also tackle/s/d issues regarding RO options for games and the availability of them. Be it because of their “sexual orientation” “personalities” “gender identity” “Etc.”
Two Questions: Romantic and Point of View
Is being able to be Bi or Gay that important?
Romantic Options
How do you feel about gender-locked romances?
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Oh, no. I’ve just seen the argument elsewhere enough that I felt it needed clarification. 
(Note: I am not transgender, so any readers who are, please feel free to correct me.) I would say that transgender characters should be treated as their gender, not the gender they were assigned at birth, i.e. a gay male RO will romance cisgender and transgender guys, but not transgender girls. For a nonbinary player, I’d say that they should get as many ROs (of either gender) as any binary players, e.g. the aforementioned gay RO can be romanced by a nonbinary player, as can one of the gay or straight female ROs, but the straight male RO can’t.
The problem with this attitude is that it can quite often be used to stifle LGBTQ players’ options. For example, if a game’s entire cast of ROs were straight, because that’s how the writer had written them, and making any of them bi would be “unnecessary fan service”.
I agree that ROs should have their own purpose within the story, and unique character, but I feel that this doesn’t preclude them being “player-sexual”. Sexuality and personality can be linked, but are not definitely so. For example, gay guys are more likely to act in more stereotypically feminine ways (not because we are more feminine on average, but because we’re often more open to expressing it), but this certainly doesn’t mean that a more feminine man has to be gay, or vice versa. Your character will still be the same character, no matter who they love.
That said, I’m certainly not saying you should make everyone bi- (or player-) sexual. Having gay characters is good for representation, which is a benefit to any story, and I suppose in that case it makes sense to have an equal number of straight ROs, too (
). But please don’t dismiss questions about orientation as “unnecessary fanservice”.
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I agree with what you’re saying, its just me saying my limitation as writer as well. I don’t want to add something that will make the reader/player uncomfortable because I used their preferred pronoun in a not correct way just to make it so that an NPC RO will become an available RO for the player character. I do not want to make it feel like I added that RO for fan service, I want to add the player sexual because it’s going to mean something to me as well, because I myself as a writer want to evolve/add to my writing style as well as evolve/add my knowledge as to what is important for me and for my readers/players.
I say its unnecessary in my view because I feel like I’m forced to add it on. Pressured to be precise to add the option which does not jive/collide with how I molded my NPCs character.
This was my answer when someone complained about my lack of adding an NB option to my game.
In that I think I’ll step out, I’ve already said my peace…meh…
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Aye. I didn’t mean to imply trans chars should not be treated as their gender (wth is wrong with me and words today Dx )
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So summarizing. Some people like player-sexual ROs, and others feel it breaks their inmersion. Personally, I’m rather fond of characters having their own gender and sexuality: it’s something that works for me, and (as I’ve said before) making a RO a gender shifter is really difficult; in the end they always seem to fall into the “feminine” or “masculine” spectrum (though there’re authors that can pull it off, I’ve seen one or two around here). In my opinion, having a girl, a guy, and a shifter in your story is the best way to go (and a genderfluid RO if you want, you get my point).
Oh, sexualities. Let’s see. Because I see sex as something you simply do and don’t think much about, open minded characters have always been my weakness. So it’s easier for me to seek out the one RO that is open about don’t minding what is, let’s say, between someone’s legs. Most of the time those type of characters are so damn charming (or uber pervs, but it’s the former I’m interested in). As a bi woman, I love love it when there’s a piece of dialogue that says something along the lines of “I had boyfriends, a couple of girlfriends”. Bi representation is something a crave for, you guys. That’s the biggest problem a see with the player-sexual thing; if you don’t state what the RO is into, they become some sort of gay/lesbian/straight/bi schrodinger cat. And I guess that’s ok? But, what can I say? Give me Zevran over Anders everytime. In fact, give me Zevran, period.
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Well, honestly, I think the best thing you can do is just try. I mean, you may make mistakes, but most people around here are forgiving of honest mistakes. Besides, the only real differences between straight and gay relationships are either related to the actual act of sex (which I imagine you’re not going to go into) or to the social effects of homophobia (and I’d recommend not bringing this up in what should be a fun game). Otherwise, it really is just pronouns.
But certainly don’t think I’m trying to force you; if you’re forced to write something you don’t want to, it would never be as good as the things you do want to write.
The problem with this is that it implies that you can’t be a feminine man, or a masculine woman. Unless of course you mean that all the ROs feel as though they were written to be exclusively feminine or masculine, in which case, yes, I agree that that could have been done better. I do think that the problem with gender-shifting ROs is less an inherent problem, though, and more a problem with them being handled poorly.
Really? You’d prefer the guy who had to be tortured into “being” bi, and who constantly mentions only his female loves, while pretty much outright saying that he’s only into a male warden because they’re special, over the guy who only mentions a past boyfriend to another guy? Zevran is a terrible example of bi representation.
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Gonna note this again, but can we, when making a game with a bi/pan option please collectively stop tying a no-gender-set RO to a past relationship or, worse, make them a set gender based on what the MC is?
This really p*ssed me off in HR already, and then Heart of the House did it too.
I’m not sure what “pissed you off” - the fact that a NPC that is playersexual had past relations in their background or that the character changes sex in relation to the PC, or both?
That they change sex in relation to the PC. It might be a personal thing, but it rubs me the wrong way when I, for example, play a male character, say I’m bi/pan and the no-gender-set RO is, due to that male or female, depending on the game.
If the game goes and let’s me pick their gender, okay. That way I have some control. But when a game pretty much goes and sets the gender for a no-set RO based solely on what the author thought a bi character would prefer…
Granted, I AM ace, but I majorly get from bi/pan friends that they are not all keen on starting something with someone of the same gender as the previous relationship after they ended one.
Hope this makes sense. I can’t words today
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Hm, you’re right. I take that back. It’s not the first time I make that mistake and I’ll try to change that in the future.
You did not say that. One, Zevran states he was born and raised for a while in a whore house, which made him pretty pratical about sex. Two, I think the whole “you’re special” goes more along the lines of “I don’t fall in love. Period”, than “You’re my gay thing”.
I’m quite sure the torture wasn’t to make him bi, though it does sound like the kind of thing conservatives suspect about the LGBTA (I’m kidding).
Zevran says several times he finds both genders atractive, while I believe Anders is either straight or bi, depending on what the MC’s sexuality is. And to top all that; Zev is just fabulous, my friend.
Hmm… Well, for myself I personally prefer writing characters with set sexualities and preferences of someone’s personality. I find it much easier to write and get into the mindset of a character who I know is bi, and has a strong (perhaps a little too strong), unwavering moral code that won’t give someone who does what they consider to be “morally wrong” the time of day. I like that while limiting, this also opens up so many avenues for character development and MC/NPC interaction that are so much more interesting to me than just ‘hey you’re attractive’ ‘thanks so are you’ ‘cool lets kiss’ (although I see very few of those, I use this more as a hyperbolic example, haha). Perhaps this character’s moral code is a bit misguided, or perhaps it’s a nice thought but unrealistic- it leaves them either with a rose-colored lense of the world or, on the flip side, makes everything seem like doom and destruction all the time, it could mean that the MC doesn’t have to agree with them, but can instead actually show this character the reality of the situation and help/watch them come to terms with the fact that perhaps all is not as its seems in their moral-mind. Which can then lead to a deeper relationship and understanding between the two of them and make the later-romance feel like something more, something that matters in the context of both the character’s personal arc and the plot itself. Now, if the MC goes out of their way to, say, rob everyone in sight at the very beginning of the game these conversations can’t happen because that character won’t consider the MC even a viable friend, heck, maybe not even a viable ally. Does this limit players? Well, yeah, but at the same time I think it makes the romance that can happen even more fun… Then when you take into account that there might be, say, a romance interest with a different kind of view that maybe won’t date an MC who the other NPC would be able to date. These might be more fun to play and, for me, personally, more fun to write.
All that being said, I do also understand “non-limited” (I suppose “unlimited” would be the wrong word here, but I’m not quite sure what to use?) NPCs, especially for games with small casts. If you have, say, three ROs total- then I can understand making them all pansexual or player-sexual. Heck, I mean, I’d be a hypocrite if I didn’t understand that mentality, it’s what I did way back when in my very first WiP when I realized that after doing my usual “narrowing-down” of the plot to take out anything/anyone unecessary and focus on the necessary parts there were only four romantic interests. However, I’ll also admit to being unhappy with this, because I felt like I was going against the character’s I’d created (save for the one who was, already, pansexual. Which I think actually came across when I was writing, as his dialogue and such felt much more natural to write since nothing changed with him.) I fully plan on going back to that project, but that was one of the things I definitely feel I want to redo, and find some compromise between keeping in just the necessary characters and giving enough focus to them, and staying true to who those characters are, as that felt much more comfortable writing and thusly also made for much better writing- but that’s all personal preference.
Sorry, one question for clarification (you do make sense! I just want to make sure I’m reading this correctly):
If a player directly chooses the gender of an NPC (stating that they are a man, woman, nonbinary), you’re cool with that, yeah? But if the gender of the NPC is set based on the player saying “I’m bi” (or “I’m bi and my last partner was a man/woman/person”) then that’s not good.
Do I have that right?
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It makes sense from the perspective of the PC’s romance but not from the sense that some stories require the sex of a companion character to be relative to the PC. Of course, it gets more complicated when you have both.
An example of where the companion character’s sex mattering is in a Sherlock Holmes setting. Watson works so fabulous because he is the male companion to a male Sherlock Holmes. If Holmes were female, to get that same dynamc in the story, the companion would need to be female.
As far as not starting a relationship with some one of the same gender you just ended one with - that’s too much of a personal thing to base a written game’s story on because not everyone or even the majority of the audience is proven to be that way.
Yeah. I know it all boils down to personal preference in the end.
Personally I feel, as said, a bit irked when an obvious RO gets any one gender based on the MCs sexuality (includes NPCs that will always be the same gender as/a different gender from the MC if the MC’s ace). Like said, HR and House are the games that come to mind immediately.
If I play a cis woman in House and state I’m bi (through the dream in the bathtub), Reaves will be a guy (was in all playthroughs I tried. So IF there is actually a randomizer, it really did not a good job at being random), if I play a cis man, Reaves is a woman, etc.
It always feels… wrong…
EDIT: I should add that I mean this when a character is obviously an RO. House does marginally better than HR as House has a couple of ROs with only one without a set gender. HR… not so much…
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im quite concern with what you said about setting RO gender based on PC gender, coz as some people know (especially @ParrotWatcher) i plan to make a game where one of the RO gender will be set based on MC gender.
so what is your opinion if i did that because that RO is supposed to be a canon gay character ? 
well, gonna agree with you there… this is why im not gonna add NB option in my game 
wow @Szaal, i didn’t know you are so genius 
dude… i know how that feels 
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Gender isn’t the most important part of a character to me. Or even one of the most. I don’t mind gender flipping and all-bi or pansexual casts don’t bother me at all. It doesn’t seem unrealistic to me. Especially when you put it up with some of the more fantastical elements that people accept in their games and stories.
Overall, I think it depends on the game. As long as the characters are well written, I think gender flips and playersexuality work well. A set gender and sexuality don’t make a character interesting just like a malleable gender and sexuality don’t make them boring. There’re so many other factors that decide that.
But having said that, it bothers me when casts are racially homogenous without a good reason. So I understand why people want specific representation with regards to sexuality, and I’d like to see more transgender and/or nonbinary characters.
Elementary has a male Holmes and a female Watson. Plus, I don’t think a female Holmes and Watson would have the same dynamic as their male counterparts. At least, no more than a different gendered pair would. Female friendships tend to be a little different than male friendships, from what I’ve seen. I think that the respective character’s personality would stay mostly the same, but flipping both’s genders would change the dynamic as well as changing one’s gender.
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If the NPC is meant to be always homosexual, then ok. I am more irked when you have a bi/pan MC and an RO thus is made either female or male.
I’ll have it in my game that the possible RO without a set gender will have there’s set by the player (including nonbinary/genderfluid, though with set ‘they’ pronouns)
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Most stories aren’t realistic 
That’s just a question of escapism. If I wanted to really do everything right I’d prefer a cheat menu to disable the check. On the other hand I’m a dick and would love to string people along for a rejection. So that’d be a post game thing Though that’s obviously more work than the simplest option of no restriction and the less bothersome restrictions.
On a related note I dislike when someone’s gender is base on preference, it’s like the stupid middle ground of choosing for yourself and not choosing at all.
I honestly didn’t like that since it was either disagree all the time or agree all the time, no matter how personal the issue.
I think if there was two relationship bars, one for affection and one for rivalry and friendship, it would’ve been good.
Yeah he only mentions the guy, if you’re a guy, which combined with his Casanova Awakening days, a girl character would just think he’s straight.
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Ey! Immersion is the keyword!
And for me, Immersion = not controlled by system (or lore-friendly).
I mean… if you can not-to-lock something, then why would you do it?
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I don’t think this part of the post was meant to be directed at me but I happen to agree here.
Elementary is a show that doesn’t work for me - the US prime time drama I’m refering to; the BBC I have not watched so I can’t comment on that version. With regard to the US version, the show’s dynamic was entirely different then the books. The reason the books worked for me vs this show was the relationship dynamic itself being different changed every other relationship and professional dynamic as well.
I’m not going to comment on female-female friendships being different then male-male but the dynamic between a female Watson and female Sherlock still would be in parallel to the original and with decent writing it could be very analogous. Part of what made the book dynamic work the way it did was the same sex relationship being just that.