Is this the worst idea ever? (gender roles)


#1

Firstly I am a guy though I would hesitate to go so far as to call myself a man despite being in my mid twenties. I am not large nor do I possess a single hair on my body that doesn’t grow from the top of my head grsnted that’s more by choice… anyway.

I’ve played plenty of games before… I’d say half in which they ask you your gender and other than pronouns it’s never mentioned again. My question is should that be the standard? Conversely am I messing with powers I can’t comprehend? Because the other half of the games I’ve played have (once I’ve chosen my gender) said things like you scratch your manly beard or heft enormous weights. While flattering when the game starts talking about my manly qualities it tends to rip me right out of the immersion. Anyway I have a solution that I question the more and more I write, it involves choosing between a masculine man and the other as well as a petite woman… and the other, as well as a non-binary frame. Now I have no problem writing about the difficulties of a lithe man that often gets confused for a woman and I’m sure I can fake it till I make it with the masculine man and non-binary figure but I know nothing about being a woman large or small but I refuse to go gender-locked. Dhould I just do a choice for pronoun and a choice for body type?

Okay that’s like eight qustions but call it a discussion whatever I just need help.


#2

There’re some ways to approach this:

  1. Just go ham and write down both the pronouns and the body type, ignoring the relationship between the two. In the eyes of coding, this should be when you do the *if exclusively between the gender and body type. This is also the one I’m using in my own work.
  2. This is what I’d call as “do not assume.” Literally means not assuming, you try to refrain from writing any kind of physical description in your game.
  3. As for the number three, and four- I don’t think I have anything other than these. So, yeah, two ways to approach this.

#3

That actually sounds like an awesome idea. I think the more options for personalisation you give, the better.

One of the reasons I like games that let me chose my size is because I am a tall woman, and everytime there is a scene that comments something like “your head resting against his chest” it really fucks me up.

So, yeah, it would be awesome if you give the choice.


#4

Best. Description. Ever.

I like it when the text recognizes what gender my MC is, and I admit I have this thing in which I see some affectations as more submissive? than others, so yeah, when my dude rests his head on the RO’s shoulder and looks up batting his eyelashes it sort of breaks my immersion (I know there’re people who love that, and that’s fine, I’m talking about my personal taste). I mostly say “nah, he didn’t” he scratched his manly beard instead and I keep reading.

It can be a pretty fine line to walk, but I’m glad you’re thinking about this stuff. And you know, there will always be somebody ready to tell you if what you wrote feels natural or not, so go for it.


#5

I am a girl and feel exactly same that’s why you can choose about assertive submissive and between more romantic or not . For instance one Pc that tends to be affectionate could hug a friend while other more stoic talking or touch the shoulder. That goes to flirt and other concepts like if you are rhe one that asking to dance.

But that shouldn’t be tied to genre. I am a woman but I am probably more assertive bold and harsh than more of males in life. lol I could assure I have never find a men or women like me … in that regard.


#6

Yeah sure. That’s why I like the idea to call actions “submissive” rather than, let’s say “girly”. Because I don’t usually play females, but when I do, they are always tomboys I don’t see fawning over anyone. Maybe that’s the start of an idea; let people choose if their MC is submissive or assertive.


#7

My stats in my game are assertive submissive balanced and balanced shy and take initiative to measure boldness and shy. Are all choose able but keep hide


#8

I agree with the “ask the player” mentality especially since it’s the little things that are so often immersion-breaking. Gender usually has nothing to do with body type so it’s a good idea to either ask the player, give a default body type regardless of gender, or never mention it to the player.


#9

It depends of genre If you write a spicy romantic game with sensual scenes you have to enter in bodybuilding. But in rest is not needed.


#10

If you haven’t heavily done Gender studies, Biology, Psychology and whatever else that relates to the subject then you are in some sense always messing with things that are a bit beyond you.
But on the other hand if you are sure you are a man then it doesn’t matter what you do or how you do it because you’ll always be a man, even if you stick out of the norm, and if that is a problem then it isn’t your problem, you know?
Or at least that’s how I see it. So in essence more options like the once you and the others here suggested are good things.


#11

I also get ripped out of the immersion when games do something like this, but just when i didn’t choose to(like making my MC be masculine/feminine just because of their sex, or make them use clothes i didn’t choose). The golden rule is always “don’t assume anything”, in this situation, that would mean that you shouldn’t assumed the body type of the player character based solely on their gender.
I like the fact that in many games only the pronouns change, because i like people being treated equally… But i also like when games give us options that matter, and treat us different when we actually are different.
So, i find that there are two optimal approaches: do as people usually do and change only the pronouns, or give the player body a good body and gender customization, and make that matter. After all, people judge your gender by how you look(that would be a result of body features + clothes&makeup), but that only has bearing in how you see yourself if you think it does. I think a good example of how to treat your MC’s gender is The Eagle’s Heir, and i think many people here agree.


#12

I hear everyone talking about chest hair these days. When exactly does one get chest hair?


#13

I’d appreciate if games would have more specific descriptions about the MCs body type instead of trying to go with a description which possibly fits all and leaves the MC more blank or going with an average male or average female descriptions.
Like when I create a character in my mind then I can’t just say “I shouldn’t assume anything” and move on, if I imagine my MC to be more on the short side then it can throw me off when the text says something like the MC leans down to kiss an RO.
One thing what I like in Evertree Inn for example is how when we choose to play as one of the shorter races and we choose to romance the Inn keepers daughter/son (who is always a human) then it doesn’t leaves it up to us how they managed to work things out even tho there is an obvious difference in height, but it’s included in the text. Not ramancey part of it but little things like Leah getting that crate for the MC stand on while they are in the stables helps a lot to keep the reader immersed I think.


#14

That’s it is only possible because evertree is not a romance game. to a romance game that means a lot code would be put there in each scene just for a variation in one simgle line in each scene.
To give you an example In my game you could choose at first between 10 thralls all different personalities and background race, powers gender and orientation i have 7 hidden stats to trank skin color hair race name pronouns sexual orientation and eye color then multiplying that with your gender if you are assertive etc your sexual orientation if you take initiative if you are in other relationship … A scene with each thrall has more code than text. And add that to height and bodybuilding for each would mean a single romantic spicy scene for player of 200 words would mean for me about 10,000 and taking account each thrall has proper mission and skills to assist 2,000 words for you to read would turn in easy 100,000 for me. or even more. Many times players has unrealistic expectations about customizing scenes like it c couldn’t be so hard… thencomplain about why is so short if is 300,000 words.
Yesterday my 1,652 words were only in give options to clothing for a ball with neutral masculine and feminine and some other choices as color Select a clothing for a reader seems menial like mere few words that goes for each detail in that ball based in wht you wearing and how that works like a corset with crinoline is not same a tunic or a tunic with toga… I like given that detail but there is a limit to what i could do in a game is focused in romance all scenes could turn unfairly long and impossible to end. It has to be a limit to customize character


#15

Breadth is not always the answer. :two_hearts:

I’m sure you can deal with so many variables but I know my limit is much less.


#16

I think I get what you are trying to say: basically if the author would be willing to include all the little changes between different MCs then it’d be a lot of more work for them if they would still want to make a game with a decent lenght… Guess this is why ZE:SH is short. That one has all those different scenes (or just changes in some sentences here and there) based on all the customization we make at the beginning of the game.
So in the end this once again comes to the question of how much work and time the author wants to spend on creating a game. And since the OP seems to be willing to spend extra time on the game he wants to write to make MCs with different body types then to answer his question all I can say that I like his idea.


#17

For instance i am in Current beginning of chaptter 3 and i have more 50,000 words. This chapter happens in a ball well having and accurate planning a simple chapter will be longer than choice of dragons. But you probably at read will think is short. Is not big deal a casual will believe but they are only seeing a 10% Then add the planning to do branching coherent. And make coding better … An author more if is amateur has to limit clearly the scope of wht customization is important for story or would end with a game impossible to finish for them


#18

It’s that short? Didn’t feel so when I was reading it…

Anyway back to topic: Guess this is something every author should know/feel for themselfes.
Anyway this makes me wonder: When the game lenght is included in the game description that’s with code, right? I wonder if it’d be possible to get a word count based on actual game lenght?


#19

It is using Choicescript editor however it would be most a guess as a branch could be longer than other. And not be accurate as author could use copy paste instead of more productive means that uses less code. Calculating word accounts is not as exact as it sounds.
Choice of dragons and broadsides are masterful crafted and even are really short feel longer but that perfection is rare. But yeah are really short


#21

At the end of the day it goes on how crazy the author is, like @Dae-kalina or @Seraphinite, adding crazy amounts of variations that for us the players would be only a couple of sentences but for them is lots and lots of coding.

For us is obviously awesome, and I really appreciate when authors take this extra effort to give the players a more immersive experience. But if they wanted to keep it more simple that would be alright too. At the end of the day authors are just humans :smiley: (not so sure about Sera being just human, but you know…)