And it was a short set on V-day, of all days, which for some people can be pretty loaded in regards to emotions and expectations and such. I can understand opting not to spend it together when you’re in a new relationship with your ex/friend, lol.
for EvilChani
Personally, I’d characterize it more as “trust themselves and the MC enough,” to embrace them as a part of their life again.
I agree 100% with this statement because I do the same, as best as I can, but my interpretation of the text brings to me some different conclusions (which is to be expected from anyone interpreting anything ).
for djinnism
I sort of feel for Avina now, because from their POVs I get that we are both the “need to be needed” type (I got better, lol) but also like, my fellow enby… get it together. You can’t survive doing this to yourself; you will get used up while telling yourself it’s the only thing giving your life meaning, lol.
A thousand times, yes.
Yeah, I agree with you here. Particularly with the “ymmv” sentiment, because of course everyone approaches relationships and intimacy in different ways, so what’s comfortable for some may feel anemic and distant for others.
Oh, yeah. I didn’t get your point initially, either, but I like this! I think that’s a good way to characterize those specials.
Sev Romance Generally:
I’ve already given my thoughts on Seven/Avina/MC a couple times, but I’ll reiterate that it sort of makes sense that Seven would have to figure out boundaries with both MC and Avina as the Sev/MC romance progresses.
From my perspective, it doesn’t immediately follow that Avina and Sev will remain attached at the hip (when it’s framed by the text as unhealthy), with the MC held at arm’s length (when it’s also framed as unhealthy) by the end of the story. This situation isn’t ideal for anyone involved and would, imo, represent a complete lack of character growth across the board - I’d actually just call that bad writing in this context, so I don’t expect this to happen.
Playing devil’s advocate for a moment here, but around the time the demo was only up to ch.1 iirc, Amy said several times on Tumblr that Savina was the best ship and that Avina was a better version of the MC for Seven (or something along those lines). Idk if it was said in jest, to tease the reader, or if plans for Avina changed and Amy decided to write the Avina we now know instead. All this to say that I partially understand where some people are coming from, especially those who aren’t on Patreon.
But…
After the latest Seven’s pov, and everything shared by Amy, if you still believe Savina is the best ship, Avina is so much better for Seven, etc., you’re just disregarding the text completely and going selectively blind when given evidence of the contrary. Going only by the VD special as evidence of how the relationship with Seven will be in the future is a moot point since there are many factors that will influence the relationship with your chosen LI.
Okay, so it’s better to spend 24/7 up your friend’s arse and only spend a few minutes here or there with your supposed partner? If my husband only spent five minutes a month with me, while making it clear that his friends, work, and scratching his balls was more important to spend time on than me, I’d be out the door. If you can’t rank your partner at least at the same level of importance as the rest of your “family”, then either you suck or you just don’t love them as a partner.
Yeah, we’ll have to agree to disagree on that.
Okay, I get you now. And I do agree that Seven is being so distant out of fear, since he flat out states that, but it still is no way to have a relationship with someone. Not one that will last, anyway.
I agree, which is why I said I got the ick from the MC forcing their presence on Seven when Seven doesn’t want to be around them. It’s disrespectful to Seven. However…
The MC has been through hell, too, and everyone seems to forget that. In the VD special, the MC can literally ask “what about my feelings” and Seven doesn’t give a damn. It’s all about Seven, and making sure that they don’t get attached, and it’s kind of a shitty way to treat the MC, really. The “relationship” is still all about Seven and their needs, the MC be damned. But that’s nothing new, right? MC gets the shit end of everything. Anyway…
Yes, Seven needs to heal, but looking at it, I really think Seven needs to heal before they even try to get together with the MC. Saying, “we need to wait until I can handle this again, and for a while, we should just be kind of distant acquaintances and build from there” is fine. Saying, “we’re together, but it’s all my terms, I have the control, and I’m going to spend as little time with you as possible so I don’t get attached” is not fine. It feels an awful lot like Seven stringing the MC on in the latter instance because, as I said above, this is how you get over someone, not how you build a strong and lasting relationship.
In reality, Seven shouldn’t be trying to get in a relationship with anyone any time soon. They need to heal alone, first. They need to learn to sleep alone, to not have someone attached to them 24/7, and to be okay with that. They need to learn that they can be alone and deal with things on their own, without relying on anyone else for validation or even support–this is where they need to start.
And starting there means they need to address their fucked up friendship with Avina and put some distance in that relationship before they even consider getting involved with MC (or anyone else). If they can understand they can be alone and deal with shit without someone always there to hold their hand or paw all over them or deal with people for them, then they’ll be fine. But it has to apply across the board, not just with the MC.
I’m not on tumblr, so I guess I’m sorry if some stuff I say doesn’t align with posts there, but this point is null either way because if you claim (not you pretzel, just readers in general!) to only use the game’s text as the material for the basis of your opinions then all tumblr answers should by default be discarded too.
Exactly this.
This we can agree on. It’s also one of the reasons why I don’t like the band. One too many jokes.
As for Seven needing to heal on their own, my answer would normally be yes (because that’s how I’d approach the situation irl) but in this context some bridges will inevitably be obliterated because having them keep away too long won’t flow nicely. Plus I guess MC will decide to help them get through xyz together because they, too, have had codependency issues and it could happen again? Both being afraid is an option in that special.
The Seven/Avina friendship? That will either find a more normal approach or crumble into dust because imo Avina is sort of a narrative foil? They’re meant to be “MC’s good end” but ultimately are just as (if not >>>) bad as MC. Avina to me feels so “controlling” I can’t see it going well in the long run. The mom friend is one thing, putting your every move under a microscope? That’s bound to explode.
I needed Seven to back up in that POV. Like, what’s your problem, omg.
But yes, I think Avina needs to just step back, put themselves first. Figure out their feelings for themselves instead of waffling around, trying to do what Seven wants and failing anyway because Seven is ridiculous.
I know people want an RO that’s obsessed with MC, but Seven… Seven is not obsessed in the fun, flirty way. Seven is obsessed in the “you need to take a Xanax and do some DBT” way.
I do remember those and they were pretty clearly jokes because people get kind of hysterical about Savina. But I think it’s been made more than clear since then that Seven and Avina have their own problems and that the friendship isn’t as rosy at it initially seems.
Of course not, but that’s not what happens with Seven and MC even in that VD special you keep basing your opinion on – their get-together in that snippet lasts literally hours. So as long as you’re going to ignore the reality presented in the writing for your own drastically skewed version of it where it’s just “5 minutes of contact per month” you’re right, we’ll indeed have to disagree on our interpretations of their relationship.
Aaaaand this is why I don’t even engage with the Sev romance, lol.
But I suspect that the Sev romance will include this sort of simultaneous lesson in boundaries for Seven, so that they are relearning how to be in-relationship with MC and Avina both.
Speaking of romances, I, personally, can’t wait to see the fruits of my labor (MC being a whore) pay off. Everyone will fall a little bit in love with MC and they are going to suffer for it.
To be fair, there are probably a few (sub) ROs who are unstable and a relationship probably shouldn’t be on their priority list. Look at G and Victoria’s routes, they’re far gone. G needing to be inebriated just to get by daily, Victoria not having enough self-love to stand up for herself and lets herself get torn down by G, Vik, and the media. Or Blake being obsessed with G in a parallel to Mc and Seven in their own way and literally plotting their downfall.
Realistic logic does and doesn’t apply to the story.
But I agree with all that’s been said. Seven needs to learn to be an individual before a team player and then some, just maybe not cold turkey, a support system for them seems crucial.
I just realized the proper term for my take on the patreon stuff could be: they’re character studies. You get a little treat by spending time with your RO but also insight into their character! It should make more sense put it this way.
Also agree that Seven is not the only one needing time to process their shit. G needs help, Victoria needs help and Dakota too. Blake is in-between, I just need to throttle them a lil bit shakes them
To be honest, I like Seven as he is - toxic and codependent, and I don’t get the talk about boundaries and dependency with him pre-vote. As far as flashbacks go, they were fine! MC had him and his friend circle, he was socially adjusted, even if a bit moody, he had Jazzy and MC, others seemed to treat him decently enough as well. He never tried to screw anyone over, he was willing to put in effort for the team and only started to bristle at very obvious sidelining and generally, the only bad example I can remember is the one where he pressures you into getting a couple tattoo with him if you refuse.
MC and him canonically only had… what, three years of relationship? First for both of them even with G crush in account. It’s normal for them both to be so attached, it’s the first partner for people who did not trust a soul before.
Mc too lol. They can be an alcoholic, party, avoidant/detached, drug addict basically, and be a bit of a pushover when it comes to their terrible family dynamic. No one is in a good position for this.
A few people in the thread (and on tumblr since that’s where most the asks end up) have a startling inability to pick up when an author is joking about, which when paired with being unable to infer what the text of the game is actually saying makes it really hard to take their commentary seriously
It’s a bit blunt and rude to say it, but having been in and around the IF community for the better part of a decade, it gets a bit tiring to see.
Fair statement but to qualify my own feelings on the matter, it’s less “this is illogical” and more “I’ve lived this - don’t need to do it again.” If we get further along in the story and I think it could be some kind of cathartic? OK, that’s a maybe. But otherwise, happy to keep my distance. Same thing with G and Victoria. I’ve been Victoria. Again, happy to keep my distance, lol.
I missed this earlier in the total deluge of posts that follow a Seven/Avina related thing lol.
I think when we’re discussing the author’s intentions for characterization and/or motivations, we exit the realm of “is this box black or white” and enter “what shade of gray is the box” territory, so I think the author’s word (specifically outside the text) holds far less weight. We bring so much of ourselves, our experiences, and our values to our experience of a book, a game, a film, etc. that we’re all going to disagree on some of our interpretations.
I think this is a lot fuzzier than [author] says [ x ] so it’s an absolute fact that cannot be argued against. Best a declaration from the author gets us is more context through which to interpret the text, but even then, for some readers the author may have failed to get their intentions across (and that could be for a variety of reasons). I wouldn’t blame them for dismissing the author’s statements in that case. Relying too much on the author’s extra-textual statements supports the sort of logic that would exclude queer interpretations of a text because the author insists that it is not (not that this is what anyone here is doing, but this is just an example). Author statements can be meaningful to us here without being dogmatic.
Just jokingly sliding in here to say this very subjective because I personally find it really really fun lolol. Characters aren’t people, they’re fictional elements serving a narrative purpose so I rarely care if a character’s arc makes them better or worse as long as it’s entertaining, honestly.
I wish Sev would find my severely devil-may-care MC in the aftermath of Xanax binge. All drugs got me yet are one funny dialogue option to say “gimme” and Orion dying inside from cringe.
Yes, this is more accurate, I agree. The pertinent part is that they aren’t really letting the MC into their life, at the point we see in the VD special. I seriously can’t get why people see that VD short as such a positive thing when it was forced onto Seven and painted a not-so-pretty picture of a not-really-a-relationship, but I guess that’s just me.
I think I’m not very charitable in my interpretation due a few things (not the least of which is that the author prefers writing angst and isn’t comfortable writing anything happy). So it feels like getting back together with Seven means MC turning into a desperate doormat who pushes and begs for things Seven doesn’t want to give. But I guess it is inevitable, no matter which RO you choose. Which is why I want my MCs to kick everyone’s ass and win.
Eh, by the very end, there will probably be some “understanding” between the three. What that looks like, I’m not sure, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the MC has to suck it and deal with Avina being 7’s “bff 4 life” (which includes a great deal of physical contact) while the MC is relegated to the backseat as the “sort of” SO, but not really because it’s healthy for them to not be attached at all (“I care about you… from over here.”).
My biggest concern about this is that MCs won’t be able to stand up for themselves and will just have a choice between 7 doing whatever 7 wants or 7 walking if you don’t like it (because, you know, they don’t need you anymore, so fuck off if you don’t like them spending the majority of what little free time they have with Avina/whoever).
Same. That’s one reason why I figure Seven will want to keep it a secret when they and MC reconnect–Avina won’t like it and will (try to) put a stop to it. I’m not sure 7 is strong enough to disobey, especially if they’re pushing the MC away from the get-go. Having them whisper in their ear how horrible the MC is and how much they hurt 7 before will just feed that fear that MC will betray them again.
@fsix - last comment on this... till next time...
Yes, it lasts hours, because the MC forced themselves on Seven. Again, that get-together wasn’t supposed to happen and wouldn’t have happened if the MC wasn’t being creepy and doing something 7 didn’t want. Yes, they went along with it, because they are “in-like” with the MC, but they didn’t want it. Maybe it’s me, but if someone expressly tells you to fuck the hell off for a day, you fuck the hell off for the day and leave them alone.
And the thing is, this “hours on end” time they spent together isn’t the norm. The MC starts the special wondering if Seven even freaking likes them because they are so distant. Because they aren’t “together” at this point, and are just friends. If days like the VD special were the norm, MC wouldn’t be thinking these things, so I have to assume this was an anomaly.
MC also indicates that Seven is closed off from them, almost completely. So no, they are not close. This VD special happens as something that is “different” for them–it’s different that they spend time together, different that they actually connect. And way different that Seven actually kisses them out of the blue. And, again, there’s the last line, where the MC flat out worries that Seven has no room in their life for them (due to experience, one would assume), then cheerfully thinks they’ll find room (probably based on the last few hours they spent with them before Seven went back to the people who are more important in their life).
So yeah, I’m reading what’s there. And I can read between the lines as well. I just refuse to put on rosy glasses and convince myself that Seven has actually been close to the MC and showing them that they’re important to them when we literally get told by the MC that that is not what’s happening.
Though I will say this–I thought they had gotten back together, but just went back and did a quick run of it and see that they have not gotten back together. They’re just friends, at this point, because that’s what 7 wants, but they may casually brush hands here or there, so MC doesn’t know wtf they are (I could tell them, if they want!).
Yeah, I think that’s the end game–Seven trying to figure out how to be in a relationship with MC and Avina, and MC and Avina learning to accept the other one has a place in Seven’s life (and MC learning to accept the physicality of Savina and the fact that Seven will be with them more than the MC).
Pfft! The MC will be the one who suffers for it! And will probably end up alone! That’s how my husband is playing it–hitting on Valenreign, fucking Dakota, flirting with Seven (and pissing her off), flirting with Blake, with Seb… crushing on O… with everyone. His goal is for his character (lead singer of Crotch Rot) is to have sex with as many NPCs as possible, lol. I told him his character will die alone, but he doesn’t care. He said the dude will get famous and bang his fans if he can’t poly ValenReign in the end.
In Blake’s defense, I don’t think they have any interest in a relationship with the MC–they just want to bang them before they ruin their life. I went to tumblr to get the VD links and saw a post on Blake–they are so not going to have a good end if they’re romanced.
That’s an interesting way to look at it. So not a solid look into how things will play out with them, but rather a peek into who they really are after you peel back the surface layer of BS.
@vera
Same. It’s another reason the VD special rubbed me the wrong way. I mean, 7’s thoughts in some of the Patreon stuff are obsessive, but like you said, they and the MC were still in the honeymoon phase of their relationship during those POVs, and that’s fairly normal for people who are really into each other, especially at their age.
I am wondering if the problem was that 7 seems to think the MC was supposed to be able to read their mind because they were so close. 7 doesn’t seem the type to actually say what they’re thinking–hell, we see that with Avina–and that can cause problems in a relationship, especially one where two people are so in sync like MC and Seven seemed to be.
I’m convinced the MC will be painted as the villain in the flashback fight and will be completely horrible with no choice to do otherwise, but it would be interesting if Seven went so off the deep end that it made the MC snap.
I mean, my husband and I joke all the time about being able to read each other’s minds, and then when one of us is totally off the mark, we give each other shit over it, but we’re joking. I get the feeling Seven might really expect MC to have read their mind and known how they felt, despite them hiding it.
I don’t know. But, like you, I just haven’t seen anything really bad in the flashbacks to indicate their relationship was doomed from the start and horribly codependent. It wasn’t like they were up each other’s ass all the time, because they had other friends.
All in all, I’m just bitter that we’ll never get to experience a Seven who is uber in love with and dedicated to the MC and, instead, will be stuck with Seven who will take the entire game to even allow the MC to be in their life in any decent capacity.
).
) is to have sex with as many NPCs as possible, lol. I told him his character will die alone, but he doesn’t care. He said the dude will get famous and bang his fans if he can’t poly ValenReign in the end.