IAPs - whats your opinion?

General
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@Vendetta You’re not wrong, but you have to understand that we’re ahead of the curve.

When we started COG, there wasn’t an iBookstore and there wasn’t Active Content for Kindle. There wasn’t even a Kindle app for your iPhone/Android! We took some old ideas (CYOA books; the movie “Big”; traditional IF), combined that with some insights into what makes good games (emotional investment of a player in a game via difficult decisions), put all that in a blender, packaged it up, and shipped it to the App Store.

We were certainly trying to (and succeeding at?) appealing to mainstream readers through the Kindle’s Active Content program. Again, we’re not allowed to discuss the status of that, but you can draw your own conclusions.

Should we therefore start trying to get our books in the iBookstore? Or, more generally, make them available in “ebookstores”? We could…we’ve discussed producing epub (?) versions of the games, which would consist of a page for every possible iteration of the game, condensed and packaged into a non-Active Content file for e-Ink Kindles. But, for example, we’d have to go and take out any place where there was user-input (names, some puzzles in Heroes Rise, Reckless, Treasure Seekers, etc). We’d also have to figure out how to do that in the first place.

Similarly, we could try and figure out the iBookstore. But this is why the Kindle Active Content was so important: it was willing, ready, and able to accept interactive texts. Admittedly, we haven’t explored iBookstore yet, but there would be major hacking involved to get our games to work on their platform. And Dan just doesn’t have the time to devote right now.

The point being, I’m not saying you’re wrong. What I’m saying is that it’s not just a matter of rebranding, but rather of potentially rebuilding our codebase.

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My first round of marketing for ZE 2 years ago was through book blogs and review sites. I sent 40 or so requests for reviews and (if memory serves me), 4 replied. The concept of CYOA was unique enough to get reviews but some were not sure their readers would be interested in IF.

I also plugged ZE as fiction first, game second. But my market seems to be older YA, and they all call it a game.

So basically my point is that I am embracing the game concept.

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Er, I actually think ZE is more of a game? The story is great, but you can’t just cruise through, it requires some strategy, trial and error, certain genre savy, to get through. If it was pitched to me as a book, I would be quite frustrated, basically thinking ‘urgh can I skip those missions for more story’.

I do think trying to market the games through books-related site, rather than gaming sites, is a good move, I think there might be more readers willing to try a text game than gamers. But some games are more suited for it than others.

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I’ll agree, Zombie Exodus is on the game end of things for me. There’s places you can die, challenges you need to overcome, combat, the usual game type of thing, just in text.

And on the subject of IAP I think I’d buy an IAP which introduces pets, like Toby in Zombie Exodus. Which gives you a couple of pet-missions, some interaction with them, and a variety of animals to choose from. I’d rather it was added after the main story was written, just as something extra.

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It wouldn’t necessarily have to be an IAP, it could just be included initially.

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@Samuel_H_Young It could be too much work for @JimD to end game in place i could understand it like IAP

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@Jackrabbit right, I was probably not marketing it correctly which I learned later. Initially, my game got some downloads from a few book review sites, but the one app site gracious enough to review it generated more downloads. App sites are just bombarded with review requests, so I went for niche book review sites and some saw IF as a novelty and reviewed it.

@FairyGodfeather To me the struggle is based on time adding something to ZE vs. working on a new game.

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Subcontract the work? :slight_smile:

Yeah new game much better.

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@jasonstevanhill Thanks for that, it was very illuminating and actually answered quite a number of those niggling little questions I often wonder about but never get around to asking. I’m probably also far from being the only one to not fully appreciate that this particular branch of the market barely even existed before CoG came along, but thinking back I was aware of only two other vaguely similar projects in 2011 (i.e. quite a while after CoG came into being) and neither of those welcomed outside authors.

What is now clear is that none of the points I raised were actually ones you guys hadn’t already thought about or discussed (and probably at great length). You obviously have a strategy in place and ideas for moving forward, all of which I find extremely reassuring.

While I do feel that, ultimately, there is real (and possibly even far greater) potential in the ebooks market for our “interactive novels”, I do fully appreciate the difficulties involved, both technical and otherwise. It won’t happen overnight, and it won’t be easy for quite a number of reasons, but it’s enough for now to know that if it should one day become both possible and practical, CoG would seriously consider it.

@Nocturnal_Stillness Sincere apologies, as we appear to have hijacked your thread and gone off on a tangent! To get it back on track, may I ask what conclusions you’re leaning towards on the subject of IAPs? I’ve certainly reached (and changed) some of my own based on thoughts expressed here, so I’m curious to see if we’re of similar mind on this.

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@Vendetta yes, good point. Moving to the COG business model thread.

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@Vendetta

No apologies it was relevant to the discussion at that point.

From what I have read here my opinions are as follows. An IAP has to be giving players new content after release and the new content has to be at least enough that a new short game could be made from it.

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If it is true that the Google Store does not support IAPs then it is easy for me to say I rather not have it, since I have none of the other platforms available to me. Personally I would rather pay for enough content to make a game of it’s own, I would be glad to pay for that.

1 Like
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Could they not do what they are doing for thr beta Slamned with an option to buy it directly. I purchased Slammed that way no problem.

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maybe a option to buy a recopilation of All IAPs for google store users? like a GOTY . because i want the iap in my device and i could buy it is really selfish claim like i couldnt buy something noone must have it. Why all of you pressent to google stor a petition to allow IAP ? its not COG fault or rest of buyers.

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@dfabulich @idonotlikeusernames @marajade @JTAL @lordirish
I’m still unsure as to why there are no Chrome IAPs? The Chrome Web Store definitely supports them. Are the terms or finer details disagreeable or something?

I wouldn’t have *thought* it’d differ vastly from the Play Store, seeing as Google owns both.

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I’m extremely wary of any IAPs / DLCs. I’ve had too many experiences were they are just a rip-off for content that should have been included in the original game. I’m especially looking at those Day 1-DLCs that are running rampant with the newest major titles on consoles.

That said, I’m not completely against them. If it is an worthwhile follow-up to the content, I’ll be happy to pay for it. In that part I concur with @Drazen and his referral to expansion packs.

I’d also be okay with things that make the game easier, but don’t influence the story itself (I’m thinking of the WarningSys in Hero Project).
Similarly, the option to disable ads, as mentioned by @jasonstevanhill

Though if it comes to the point where I feel that I’m deliberately withheld content in order to make more money, my usual response is to deliberately avoid anything to support the creator, up to the point where I stop buying any future products simply because I refuse to support anything like that.

Honestly, @Havenstone with Choice of Rebels is an example where that instinct kicked in. When I played the demo and came to the part with the IAP, my first thought was to immediately stop playing the game and ignore it from that point onward (which, of course, also means that I wouldn’t buy it once it’s finished).
I didn’t do that, but it’s in big parts only due to the fact that I buy my CoG-games via Chrome. They don’t have IAPs, which in turn would lead to my favorite option: A bigger price tag on the onset, but with all content included.

For games like Zombie Exodus with a couple episodes, I think how they did it with “The Walking Dead” is a good comparison. Give me the option to pay a higher price at the outset for the complete game, even if it isn’t finished yet, and I will usually take that.

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@CJW - If I could buy and play without having to use Google Chrome I would, but it is the only platform I have available to me. I would actually prefer to not give Google any money at all, to be honest, and rather have more of it go to CoG and the author if I had a choice. But I have no idea how all of that works, I just know I like CYOAs and so far nothing on the net has compared to what I have found here on CoG, and I am glad it is available via Google. But, as I said above, personally I would pay a bit more still to avoid Google altogether.

Overall, I suppose I agree with @Nasdaxow that I rather pay more, but I also never did like buying part of games, so even if I had one of the devices that supported IAPs I probably would not buy that. I rather pay more for more, so to speak.

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I want to be clear that the lack of IAPs in Chrome apps is our fault, not theirs. It’s a lot of work to add a new payment mechanism; each time we do it, we have to evaluate whether it’s worth our trouble. (My primary focus has been to allow IAPs directly on our web site.)

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“Though if it comes to the point where I feel that I’m deliberately withheld content in order to make more money, my usual response is to deliberately avoid anything to support the creator, up to the point where I stop buying any future products simply because I refuse to support anything like that.”

Glad to be getting reactions like this before releasing a game… so that if I do decide to go with an IAP I’ll at least be pissing people off with full awareness of the implications of my actions. :slight_smile:

As a Chrome store player myself, I’ve been leaning very heavily against including an IAP in Rebels ever since I found out that Chrome-only folk would be excluded. That’s pretty close to a dealbreaker for IAPs as far as I’m concerned.

I have considerably less sympathy for people with a knee-jerk “ripoff” reaction - not that they’re wrong (the customer never is) but I’d still feel quite comfortable saying to them, “You and I clearly disagree about the value of my game, so I’m fine with you not buying it. (And boycotting everything else I ever write? Wow, ok. We clearly weren’t meant to be).”

I’d expected some debate when I released the actual content of the tax collector segment - people arguing about whether what I had added was worth $1 or 50c or less (and if 50c, whether that’s too piddly to bother with).

But I’ve been surprised by how irrelevant that’s been to people’s judgments - it’s not treated as additional content, simply withheld content, so can be judged independently of actually seeing it - and how many have felt confident pronouncing that the game’s up front price should/must/will be fair value.

I guess I thought more people (at least those above the age where they can have their own credit card) would accept that when finished this game - like almost all CoG games - is going to be a sweet steal at $3ish.

I’m not doing this for a living (which means my work is unfortunately likely to resemble George R R Martin’s in more ways than just genre, themes, and longwindedness). But other CoG authors are, or would like to be. They want “to make more money” for the best of reasons, not because they’re underhand and greedy like yours truly.

Given that a high up-front price on the App Store turns potential readers away before they’ve had a chance to appreciate the actual value of a CoG novel… I’d like to see writers giving a streamlined game for that low low CoG price, while offering a fuller story via IAP to people who’ve discovered they like the world and style. If that made the games more financially viable, I might have less of a wait for more Infinite Sea, and Lucid games, and Way Walkers, and other authors who don’t do this cause they don’t yet see the livelihood in it.

Otherwise, we’ll remain far too dependent on people with day jobs who take years to finish a game.

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@Havenstone I think an IAP is a ripoff if it, for example, all it does is adding a few items, extra cash or something like that. I am okay with IAPs/DLCs that add a side story or a new plot. A mission IAP, like your tax collector thing, isn’t exactly my thing (not exactly a side story or a new plot, just a mission if I understand well), but I’d gladly pay for it and not call it a ripoff at any price if it turns out to be an interesting addition to the game.