I, the Forgotten One Release Thread (1.2) [SEQUEL WIP UNDERWAY]

The point is “Rade’s willingness to dispose of Elya” dates much longer than end of the book. As such, perhaps we could stop pretending that he wasn’t perfectly willing to murder her, when the game itself explicitly shows him as viewing it as his prioritized course of action.

The MC takes a short while to connect the dots, but they doubt all of Rade’s claim right afterwards:

[i]It's an excuse to you, isn't it?[/i] The realization makes you grit your teeth. [i]You just want a reason to rebel, and this one is as good as any. You don't care about us. You never did. You just want the crown... and you'll take my sister's maidenhood if it reinforces your claim to power.

At this point MC thinks Rade is simply planning to use Elya to give himself legitimacy.

I’ve ignored it, because it’s silly premise to which the answer should be obvious. Yes, Rade could’ve lied about just being promised lands and gold. But why settle for a smaller lie when you can easily make yourself look even more wronged, by lying some more?

“He didn’t have to tell that lie” doesn’t really lead to “therefore it’s not a lie”.

How’s it a strawman when you immediately use (yet again) the very argument i’ve said you’d used, literally in your next sentence? If that was a strawman, you should’ve give me your actual argument instead of embracing the supposed strawman fully.

Rade murdering the king, as well as the next rightful king, all in attempt to simply install himself on the throne is not justified by merely not receiving what he was allegedly promised. Especially when serving the ruler in military capacity is part of his basic feudal contract, for which the only thing he’s owed is the king coming to his defense should he become a target of an attack. It speaks volumes of Rade’s character that he’d rather shirk his duty and think he should be additionally compensated for it, as well as turn on the man he swore loyalty to when he didn’t get what he wanted.

As for “only” murdering a handful of people, pillaging villages and sending thousands to pointless deaths for the sake of nothing but greed and personal ambition. No, that’s quite enough to be a villain. No matter how unwilling you’re to face it. Because there’s nothing morally grey about these actions.

Mind you, i think it’s rather absurd to argue such minutiae, but, hey. If that’s what you think is important here.

That’s the point. The “artificial” similarity is not “artificial”. It’s what the people in question actually share. Using “artificial” here doesn’t even make sense, other than as an attempt to downplay it.

Sigh. Yes. Again, the whole argument isn’t about Rade and the Marshal being absolutely identical. It’s just a strawman you keep attacking because you can’t deny the statement that i’ve actually made – that the treason of Rade and that of the Marshal are of the same nature and fueled by the same mentality. And it’s this similarity that renders the Usurper as much of a villain as Rade is.

(and if you’re going to reply to this with how you don’t view Rade as villain etc etc then please don’t bother. I think i’ve had enough of pointless treading in circles through the same points over and over. Perhaps we can just agree to have different takes on this)

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To be fair on this point, Rade probably provided a level of service in the Border War that was above and beyond what his contract stipulated in terms of numbers of men or scuttage or length of time and if that’s the case and he was denied what was promised he was within his rights to seek redress. However, murdering two kings wasn’t the appropriate remedy for that. That was just being power hungry.

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It is indeed possible to get Total Victory, Victory/Decisive Blow, and Total Loyalty in the same playthrough as Elya with 7 Strength. I believe 7 Strength is the maximum value she can have in this game.

For she is our queen, and long may she reign.

Final run screenshots:


I did this run as a Tactics Marshal, for both personal reasons (this is my primary Marshal Anna, who now has Intimidation 1 down from 2 [it fit my mental image of her better] and a mare named Roach) as well as game mechanics reasons. I’m not sure if Weapons/Leadership Marshals can use this strategy; while the Archer Trap is available to all Marshals, Tactics Marshals are better at disease management and dealing with Rade’s assault on the walls. I also took zero Envy options, both for personal reasons (Anna has never had Envy above 0, and ends the game at -3 Envy) and playthrough reasons (we are going to get Ending 2, and I don’t think that there’s an Envy choice that will bring her to Strength 8).

First, I warned the nobles at the ball about Sobik’s death. Next, I told Elya to be strong in front of others and be weak to herself (you can say you’ll help her become strong if you want strong cold Elly, but I prefer strong warm Elly).

During Belos’s Sally, I attacked the flanking archers, and fell back after dealing with them. I then told Elya to cherish the living while they still lived (you can tell her that they messed up and paid for it if you wish). After that, I used my tactical skills to turn the tables on the rebels attempting to scale the walls.

After the army hits the road, I told Elya to keep moving forward, and to acknowledge the dead without being consumed by grief (you can stoke her desire for vengeance but warn her not to let it consume her if you wish). Then use your disease management tactics to even the load of consumption on your army, then train the retinue in regimentation (the Cohesion boosts and independence of the army are necessary, meeting Sokol is awesome, and the cadence is cool). When Elya is upset by the news of plague and consumption spreading, give her a woman-up speech (first option. While the fourth option also gives her 1 strength, it is an Envy option and thus grayed out on my playthroughs). When Milon and Lada want to retrieve the lost patrol, refuse their request. When announcing ourselves at Castle Salutis, let Elya announce our presence. During the Ciril recruitment negotiation, let Elya take the lead the entire time—don’t even tell her what angle to push Ciril on. While you will have only 9 points of recruitment instead of 10 or 11, it won’t matter. Recruit 3.5 units of archers (7 points) and 1 unit of light cavalry (2 points). If you’ve been following the guide, Elya should have 6 strength.

At the Atiming, counter-charge Nado’s troops and let Velinor take the shot. Next, set up defenses, choose the Archer Trap strategy, mix the retinue in with the levies, and keep all cavalry in reserve (this one is especially important. Don’t even think about disrupting Nado’s plans this playthrough. You’ll see why soon).

Regimentation will help your troops build the defense well without your supervision. When the inspection goes to hell, I save Dismas. However you may want to be pragmatic (call a retreat) or save Lada (and educate her on the reality of war. I’m not sure if you need to focus on her for the cheevo since I don’t have it). Afterwards, decide to shoot back at Nado’s archers, and have Elya give the command. While this doesn’t give her a Strength boost when she has Strength 6 (it only gives Strength if she has it less than 4), it’s good flavor. Attack the rebel foragers (while I spared the last surviving rebel, you can let him die or kill him yourself). When the battle begins, order your tactical withdrawal first, then go to personally fight alongside your infantry. When the rebel cavalry attempt to flank, Regimentation allows your troops to counterattack and not be wiped out. Don’t worry about Elya! She will (physically) be okay and will become the Warrior Queen in this battle.

Spring your trap, and let the archers do what they do best. When the rebels are completely routed thanks to your 1000+ archers, set your entire rested reserve cavalry to running them down. You should have 4800 rebel casualties by the end.

Deal with Vedran in Chapter 6 as you wish. Anna went down swinging here—while she was captured in the end, the traitors didn’t celebrate at all. I also had 4 Vedran Respect coming into Chapter 6 (Anna punched him in Chapter 3) and thought the post-capture conversation was great for the story. Get rescued (I low-key wish Elya at Strength 5+ was more proactive in her and Darin’s rescue, or at least during their captivity, as a reflection of how she’s grown into a competent queen rather than a delicate princess, but that’s just me. It’s just one more flavor text variation), then get dressed in borrowed clothes and begin the march to Krorid. By now, Elya should have 7 Strength, and the Marshal should have -3 Envy.

Choose to take the short route to Krorid. When you get to Krorid, either tell Moren it was too much of a stir outside, or answer him with Kroridian slang. Then admit bluntly that you wish he was Tomos. At the forge, Anna picked plate (unsure if armor matters) and a poleaxe (both for my own personal polearm appreciation, and because it’s going to be very useful in Chapter 8), but if you like other weapons and armor pick those. Train the retinue in Regimentation II (it makes Chapter 9 so so so much easier). Recruit 3 units of Veterans (get the gang back together!), and 1 unit of Rangers. Your army size should be 6800 by the end of recruitment.

In Chapter 8, lead your men down the hill and seize the siege weapons. This is especially important since we plan to fight the big open battle. When Vuk appears, fight him and win (as Anna is an average height woman, I duck his initial strike, then tackle him and smash his helmet in with the hammer of my poleaxe).

Chapter 9 is the big battle! Evenly distribute your retinue throughout your line, to increase cohesion. Then put your rangers with your archers (there are a lot fewer of them left after seizing the siege weapons, so this is the best way to preserve them). Avenge Belos’s Sally with your archers, then set your archers to firing on the attacking cavalry, and then use the archers as much as possible, in general. After that phase of the battle, your cohesion should be 96 while the rebels remain at 95. In the next phase of battle, put the archers/rangers to work obliterating Rade’s archers (and scaring the Butcher), then set your cavalry to attacking the attempted flanking cavalry. At the end of this phase of battle, your Cohesion should be above 90, theirs should be 85. In the next phase of the battle, set the archers to firing on attacking enemy cavalry (ignore the infantry for now), and then move your retinue around to compensate for your reduced numbers. At the end of this phase, your cohesion should be 91, and the rebels’ should be 79. The veterans are really helpful, as is the regimentation!

Now it’s time for the Marshal’s big moment. Choose to join the infantry (I do this both because Anna wields a poleaxe, which is more suited for infantry combat, and because I wish to spare Roach) or the cavalry (do this if you want to perform the Marshal’s Sally). Use your tactical knowledge to exploit the weakness of the rebel line, and watch the rebel army crumble. Then, give the command to deal a decisive blow–to spare more of your boys later.

After this, it’s up to you how you want to deal with Vedran (Anna spares him by knocking him unconscious when he attempts suicide-by-Marshal), the Archbishop (Anna either threatens or shames him [I don’t know which one I like more/fits Anna more], but I wish Elya at Strength 5+ handled him entirely by herself, after the Marshal’s initial barb, rather than the Marshal shaming or threatening him. Her speech to him even before the Marshal threatens or shames him is savage and masterful from both Warm and Cold Elly–I wish that there was more of that), the prospect of rehonoring (Anna wishes Elya to pursue it and says so when her sister offers to do so, but I’ll carry at least one playthrough forward in which she refuses the offer) and Mira (Anna tells her that she’s done dealing with Mira’s bullshit, because she’s just a bitter drunk old woman who will never see [Anna] as anything other than a bastard). Choose who you want to be the guards at the coronation (Anna chooses the Kroridian veterans, although I wonder if dishonored men would also be a good choice), dress up to the nines or not (Anna likes dresses, especially wearing them on her own terms, so she dresses up), and help escort Elya to her coronation. She will give one hell of a speech to the assembled vassals (four of them will pledge fealty: one whose village was razed by the rebels instead of the loyalists, the two who(se families) were spared because of the Marshal’s warning in Chapter 1 [note that these two pledge to the Marshal specifically], and one who heard of the victory in the final battle and is impressed), and almost all of them will follow her into the cathedral.

Elya is now the Queen of Kanton, and holds the power of God and Crown (and Total Loyalty). The Marshal has earned Ending 2. I wonder what the future will bring in I, the Unbroken One.

This cracked me up. However I don’t think Elya or Anna would see it that way, lol.

Due to Anna’s looks (pale skin, black hair, gray eyes), Elya actually looks like Elsa (although it’s not enough for me to make Anna a redhead. I like black hair + gray eyes). Although Elya’s the one who’s more like Anna and Anna is the one who’s more like (beginning of Frozen 1) Elsa. And now I’m imagining the Marshal (any Marshal) singing “Let it Go”…

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Your jealousy: -3

At this level the Marshal doesn’t merely not envy Elya. They’re actively putting themself down as not worthy to be in presence of Her Illustrious Majesty.

Btw, with your Marshal’s name (and Elya being just one letter off the match) i can’t help but imagine:

image

<3

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Since we’re taking Marshal screenshots i just want to give you a glimpse towards a mentally stable Marshal using 1% of his powers


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I didn’t follow the entire conversation, so I apologize if you already adressed this, but I think that the statement that “the treason of Rade and that of the Marshal are of the same nature and fueled by the same mentality” is obviously false. If I remember correctly, than the game gives you the chance to roleplay a Marshal that takes the crown for the good of Kanton, seeing Elya as incompetent, while Rade was depicted to be solely after personal power. Furthermore, I believe that starting a war and pillaging the countryside isn’t remotely comparable to a bloodless coup and saying “that renders the Usurper as much of a villain as Rade is” is misguided.

I personally interpreted that as a rationalization. Most of us tend to be pretty kind to ourselves when it comes to evaluating our motives for doing things. Everyone who doesn’t have anti-social personality disorder wants to see themselves as a good person, so we typically try to convince ourselves an obviously selfish action we take has altruistic motives and we’re good at persuading ourselves. I think Rade is being self-deceptive with why he thinks he’s doing what he’s doing and Ending 3 Marshal can do the same

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The Marshal takes the crown in Ending 3 because they see it as recompense for their shabby treatment at the hands of (almost) all the world (and it is shabby treatment), as well as finally taking something for themselves. I will provide screenshots shortly. The author has also gone on record saying that Ending 3 is the one that is worst for Kanton in the short term, and only possibly alright in the long term (and my personal belief is that “long term” could be 500+ years after the Marshal has been smeared by history as a horrible evil person who broke Kanton). I know that has nothing to do with the discussion of Rade’s villainy, but stating that the Marshal’s decision to usurp Elya was driven by logic is something that I can’t silently scroll past.

That is definitely one possibility for Ending 3 Marshal in ITUO: that they are an OK or even excellent ruler in the long term (they probably found motivation other than “this crown should be mine and I’m finally doing something for me and not for Kanton or Krorid”), after the brutal civil war (very likely a three-way civil war with Rade, Elya, and E3!Marshal as the 3 claimants of the Kantonian throne), and thus repair their long-term reputation. The other possibility is that they get the Richard III treatment in both life and death (likely because they lost the civil war and/or ran their control zone of Kanton into the ground), and their reputation only gets repaired (and even then only sorta) long after their death. We will find out in ITUO.

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The Marshal has option to tell themselves It's what's best for Kanton, too. but that “too” is crucial – this line, if you pick it at all, comes up only after the Marshal goes through monologue how much they resent Elya is going to be the queen when it’s MC who’s done all the work, how the throne should be yours, how you were never rewarded for all your efforts, how you no longer want to follow anyone’s orders and how for the first time you could do something for yourself.

These are all canonical thoughts of the Usurper. The “good of Kanton” is at that point more of a fig leaf of self-justification than anything else, when just a moment earlier MC explicitly says this is not about Kanton, not really:

For the first time in your meaningless life... you could do something for you. For ${name}--not for the Stiedry family, not for the Kroridians, not for Kanton.
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"It is not yours save by unhappy chance. It might have been mine. It should be mine. Give it to me!”

Ending 3 Marshal’s internal monologue actually brought Boromir trying to take the ring from Frodo to mind the first time I read it.

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Interesting. I had taken “it’s what’s best for Kanton” at face value. But I concede, it is truly writen as taking what was yours. I suppose I can still play as a madman, that is also fun.

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Oh, there’s nothing like it in the world! And it’s also fun to own your selfishness, if you want a change of pace :grin: .

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Possibly alright in the long term mean that they were at least positive or weren’t harmful to Kanton. If Mc was just a evil tyrant then he would be bad for Kanton short and long term as it would be better if he wasn’t King.

There is a PLACEHOLDER by the end of the river crossing battle (chapter 5), also a few pages earlier it seems to be some repeating text when describing the Marshall’s group at the start of the battle.

The PLACEHOLDER bug when you send off the light cavalry to attack the rebel camp (and earn Disrupt their Plans) has been reported in the past. Could you screenshot the prior repeated text you mention, and post the screenshots?

@Arkeyr79 for the screenshot, tag the author. That’s not something that’s been reported yet.

@Bacondoneright

The second paragraph

And yeah the PLACEHOLDER was when i send off the light cavalry

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For Ending 2, I wonder what the implications are for the various choices in coronation guards. I suspect that they are as follows:

Retinue men: either this has no special implications at all, or it strengthens Elya/the Marshal’s reputation amongst the Kantonian nobility and commoners because it is the safe and conventional choice.

Dishonored men: Even though it is not easily apparent that they are dishonored, this could be the first steps to abolishing dishonoring as a practice in Kanton, and reintegrating the nonviolent dishonored people (such as Dismas) back into society (the Marshal of course champions this effort and is known for it in the history books, should Elya win the civil war). If the Marshal asks Elya to inquire about rehonoring, then the process, if it exists, might become available for more people than the Magister Militum who is also the Queen’s Beloved Brother/Sister. I can also see the Marshal becoming even more of a folk hero(ine) amongst the dishonored (speaking of, I wish that Dismas got special text in his epilogue if dishonored men were chosen to guard the coronation, if he’s alive).

Kroridian veterans: The author has said that there will be a new “Krorid loyalty” stat tracked in ITUO, and I strongly suspect that choosing the Kroridian veterans to guard the coronation will sharply raise it. I suspect that it will effect both the Kanton/Independent Krorid relations (and possibly even more support in ITUO) and the possibility of the Marshal becoming ruler of Krorid after Moren’s death (at the very least, the Marshal would cement the support of the Kroridian soldiers in becoming king/queen of Independent Krorid). I wonder if it will have implications for compensation of the Border War veterans, and the Marshal ensuring that Elya gives it (I suspect that the Marshal will not have to push very hard if at all, even with Strong Cold Elly), which could also happen with choosing the retinue men or dishonored men to guard the coronation.

@fsix A pity. I hope that it gets expanded on in the preparations for Book 2.

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The only real effect so far is each kind of soldiers makes a different gesture when you make your way to the altar:

*if (c11_HallwayGuards = "retinue")
	Whenever the queen passes a pair of guards, they drop to one knee in respect.
*if (c11_HallwayGuards = "dishonored")
	Whenever the contingent passes a pair of these guards, they salute with their maimed hands.
*if (c11_HallwayGuards = "veterans")
	Whenever the queen passes a pair of guardsmen, they slam a fist onto their breastplate.

TBH it wouldn’t suprise me if that was all it was, a bit of flavor text.

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I’d love to have this. Every time my MC is around the Kroridians, she can’t help but think those are her people. She loves her sister, but Kanton still sees her as dishonored. Unless Elly finds a way to get that undone, the marshal will always be more of a third class citizen in Kanton than anything else.

Plus, being queen/king of Krorid helps the Milon/Lada romances along, because it would likely be frowned upon for them to marry a dishonored soldier, even if it is the marshal. Getting status, even if it’s in a free Krorid takes care of that.

Of course, I say that and my marshal would make a face at the idea of being a politician. Diplomacy is not her jam.

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I’m tired of this fruitless back and forth, so let’s cut to the chase.

First, we will look at this from a more “narrow” perspective.

Even if things went perfectly for Rade (MC knew nothing about Sobik’s assassination and wasn’t in the capital), his rebellion would still result in thousands of deaths. Belos would still attempt his sally and the survivors of his folly would still try to hold on inside the city, leading to thousands falling victims to Rade’s siege weapons, starvation or disease.
The Usurper’s coup was (planned as and turned out to be) an entirely bloodless thing. Sure, it might, and probably will, result in a non-insignificantly greater number of victims than if MC had stayed true to Elya, but in a perfect world it would lead to very few victims.

With his rebellion, Rade has overturned a time of relative peace and prosperity and plunged the country into civil war. He is the chief instigator of all the troubles that are now plaguing the kingdom.
The time of troubles that Rade brought to Kanton is the only reason the protagonist got a chance to come to power at all. The Usurper simply took advantage of the chaos that Rade created.

Rade has zero legitimacy unless he turns out to have some connection to the royal family. His only hope of ever gaining even a modicum of it is to marry Elia.
The Usurper has (bastardly) royal blood running through him/her, s/he was crown prince(ss) for years before getting cast out, and, what is very important, the Usurper now has the blessing of the highest ranking representative of the Church in Kanton. If the Usurper manages to get rehonoured, s/he will become the most legitimate claimant to the throne of them all.

If we are to believe the reasons Rade gave to justify his rebellion, something that you still refuse to do, Sobik deceived him into wasting several years of his life (and a significant amount of resources) on a war he had no reason fighting. This is bad, sure, but not too terrible. As it has been already said by some, it hardly justifies what he did next (I disagree, but it doesn’t matter here).
The MC had his/her entire life ruined by Stiedrys, and then had to follow the will of some dead man who was most responsible for making his/her life a living hell. The injustices MC has suffered and the grievances s/he’s carrying far outweigh those of anyone else.

Although their decision to attempt taking over Kanton was made for the same general reason, their backgrounds, personal experiences, and other factors, which contributed immensely to the choices they ended up making, could not have been more different.

Secondly, let us look at the bigger picture.

Humans are complex beings. No man can be defined by a single decision or act.
There are very few actions that would be sufficient in themselves to firmly place one in the category of “villains” (or, for that matter, “heroes”). And usurpation is certainly not one of them.

What the Usurper does is undoubtedly evil. But unless you, the player, tried to make your Marshal as evil as possible beforehand, that doesn’t make him/her a villain. The very idea is absurd and doesn’t stand up to any serious criticism.

To be a villain is to devote oneself to (committing) evil. Committing a single atrocity, be it, say, rape or even murder, is in most cases not enough to classify one as a villain.

To claim otherwise would not only be absolutely preposterous, but also quite dangerous. After all, if someone is “evil” or a “villain”, then something has to be done about it, correct? Incarcerating a “villain” for a couple of years or even decades won’t wash away his crimes, will it? Meaning that there’s only one real solution to the “villain” problem…
And if you lack the will to embrace that solution, then all you achieve by so liberally branding people as “villains” is cheapening the term.

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