How much control do you prefer over your character's background?

It’s not like I’m angry at them being there, just confused. For a feature to be widely implemented, there needs to be a demand in the audience. Is there seriously that many non-binarys playing CoGs these days?

There don’t have to be many.
In a game where gender is not an issues it’s very easy to include more gender options than male/female. Including them doesn’t hurt anyone as nobody is forced to play transgender MCs, while not including a third option may disappoint some people.
It’s choice of games after all. Having many choice options is not a bad thing here.

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Gender choice should really have meaningful impact on how the story reacts to your character, not just who your romance options are. There is a huge difference in the way a woman or a man will be treated in some situations, but most choice stories do not capitalize on this and treat both the same. Of course in hindsight to do it otherwise would require a significant more work/writing , but at the same time I still feel there should be something more significant about a gender choice then romance.

That said, the option of a third or none binary choice should also have proper impact on the story and I personally feel it dose have a place in choice games. The first instinct is for someone to try and put themselves into the game, to create a character that represents themselves. But at the same time its a chance to explore a different perspective you have not seen before. How would the story change if you were a different gender, what trials would you face to bring about the same results? Its that sort of diversity that excites me about the option of gender over everything else. However not every story or game needs or should have such a dynamic, but I’d be happier if more authors made gender have a more significant impact on the story.

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Non-binary gender does not equate to “hermaphrodites” (by the way, intersex is a more respectful term for people who don’t fall physically into the binary.) Go read up on genderqueer people, as a start.

Gender is not as simple as male or female, both in terms of biology and in terms of how people identify/think. NB people aren’t the norm, but they’re not all that rare. For a long time there was no recognition of their existence, so of course people didn’t always have a way to say “Hey, that sounds like me.”

On a related note, there are quite a few asexuals, aromantics, grey-As, and other sexual minorities in terms of orientation, more than previous generations ever would have guessed. …Not that it’s fun being in the smaller boxes. Any time someone makes something that includes you, it can be seen by the majority as somehow taking something from them. There are seriously people who will get belligerent if you try to introduce anything into a game besides what they know. God forbid they should learn about different people.

I’ve gotten a few pointed comments myself about why I’m wasting time coding minority genders/orientations when I could be putting out AWESOME FIGHT SCENES or whatever else they think I should be focusing on.

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My understanding was that asexuals just had no sexual attraction, correct? I don’t see how that could equal a change in gender. As for sexuality in general, it still doesn’t change if you’re Male or Female. As far as the “intersex” thing, every term can go from respectful to insulting within a day, no one can keep up with a vocabulary that NOBODY finds offensive. I’ve seen you use the “learn about others” way too much, you act like 90% of CoGamers have never researched a thing in their lives. Just because they don’t approve of something doesn’t mean they are ignorant to it. Personally though I will have to do some research on the biological non-binarys after my trip.

@WulfyK not every choice that the audience wants can be included. I can’t include some rainbow darting unicorn because a drug addict saw one in his last trip and wants his character to ride one. In your argument that adding a choice doesn’t hurt anyone, some of them just can’t be added. Like say I’m making a game about a hero going after some villain about to destroy the world, I doubt I can keep a serious tone and add a choice to quit the quest and go breed the previously mentioned unicorns. The whim of the few can’t be included sometimes.

@Divinity_One just being honest here, but you’re honestly the only one that made a point that made me think. If it had a part in social interactions between others, and not just a “full in the blank” thing on what you’d like the be called, I honestly thought of using it. It shook my position, so it was a valid point. Although I won’t be using them, I honestly would think about it in a game about diplomacy.

@TechDragon610

The word herm and hermaphrodite is offensive when used about people. You’ve had it explained to you why. The correct terminology, when speaking about people, is intersex. Please use it, rather than defending your use of offensive language.

(Post edited to remove the link to the now edited post).

@TechDragon610 It depends on the situation. But in case of those CoG and hosted games that have non-binary gender options, it doesn’t destroy the serious tone because in all of them the MC’s gender has no plot relevance.

In such a game the author can include a third option (which might get them a few more readers and bring some more money) or not add it (and spend a few minutes less on coding). The number of genderqueer players may be small, but if an author can earn a few more dollars by adding one more option, why should they notinclude it?

By contrast, there are some games where gender matters more, and as far as I remember these games don’t have third gender option, some of them are even genderlocked. This is justifiable, because including a third gender would compliate the coding much more, and sometimes the setting of the game requires the MC to have a binary gender. I agree with @Divinity_One that there could be more such games with meaningful gender.

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Yes sir/ma’am. Want me to edit it out?

Many issues are situational, certain sexualities can be detrimental to a story, and (while I can’t think of any examples for this one…) they may be essential at some point. Too many people assume that the whole multi-gender thing is just to save time coding, but I doubt that very much. Meaningful changes would take time, but look at hero of kendrickstone, that gender thing was easy to code, it just replaced all the places were someone referres to you with the (correct? chosen?) term.

Yes. Please edit your posts.

Acceptable or do I actually have to say “inter-sex”?

No, you don’t need to use the word intersex. Just so you’re aware but the words aren’t synonyms. Intersex is a medical term, whereas non-binary refers to gender-identity. While some intersex people may identify as non-binary, most identify as either male or female. Non-Binary people may be intersex, they may not.

You’ll find that not everyone plays their gender while playing Choice of Games. You could look at it, at the very least as just an additional roleplaying option. I loved Choice of Dragon’s “Do not pester me with your impudent questions!” option. It’s important beyond that, mind you, as part of Choice of Games’ policy of inclusivity.

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oh, I’ll be fine to use it if it’s a medical term. I enjoyed Choice of Dragon a long time ago, do all games published by CoG LLC require an intersex option?

In that case, you should have probably used non-binary, since that would have been more accurate than inter-sex.

And no, the official games don’t need to. I think the only rule, for the official games, is if you include gender in your game (some games don’t) you should allow for both male and female options. Some authors also include non-binary options, which is nice.

Hosted Games, of course, you can do whatever you like (as long as it’s not offensive/derogatory I think).

define “offensive” everyone really is offended by different things that other people aren’t offended by.

Not everyone’s opinion is equal. Whoever’s life it is, is the one who gets to decide if it’s offensive. If someone who isn’t white says something is racist, they’re probably right. Likewise, if people who fall outside of the straight cis-person category are telling you that you are misusing words and sounding like a bigot, they probably have a point.

People can get “offended” by all kinds of things. People can get offended if you imply that they’re a bigot; that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t ever use the word. There’s a difference between never upsetting anyone ever, which is impossible, and using basic correct terminology or concepts in regards to oppressed groups. That’s just being civil and respectful.

Feel free to PM me if you want to chat more about sexual or gender minorities. I have some good resources on hand that might simplify the concepts for you.

Everyone knows about stuff others don’t. I am constantly researching things. What baffles me is when someone refuses to learn about something because they “don’t approve of it.” You do not need to approve of other people’s existence. This is just a bananas things to say, and I will continue to call you out if you keep acting this way.

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and

seem to contradict eachother. regardless. You will find whatever other reply I make offensive, so I’m gonna opt out for a full reply.

Take this, for instance: you qualify your statement by removing people from having an opinion on racism based entirely on their skin colour. It is likely people would take offense to that since white people do experience racism - perhaps not the majority in your country or culture, but it is certainly prejudiced to dismiss all white people from having an opinion on a topic simply because they are white. The Irish people, for instance, who experience being treated as second-class citizens in several parts of Europe to this very day, should be allowed an opinion on racism, should they not?

But this topic has been derailed enough. To get back to the question at hand, I prefer to have at least enough customization so that the picture I develop in my mind matches the context as it is presented in story. That usually entails gender, ethnicity, hair color, eye color, and general body type. However, if such distinctions aren’t pertinent to the story and are not regularly referenced, then it’s easy for me to maintain the picture in my mind with as little defined as name and gender.

This is a good point as well. The customization should be worked into the story somehow. Just answering a list of questions like this is kind of off-putting (in my opinion). Although, on the other hand, it is better to do this than have no customization at all.

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For reference, http://practicalandrogyny.com covers some of what “non-binary” can mean for people who aren’t physically intersex.

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@dashingdon Ehhh, being prejudiced against a white person is different than being racist against a POC since the institution of racism (in a lot of places cause colonialism but not everywhere) only really benefits white people. It’s a lot to do with cultural mainstream and default/deviance; similar to why gay people can’t be heterophobic. It wouldn’t make sense.

@Alopax I, personally, dig choosing physical attributes but that’s b/c I always assume it’ll mean something. It does kinda suck if I spend time pondering being short vs tall vs curvy vs thin only to then have to decide a long list of other appearance points. Then it’s obvious that my responses don’t matter. I think that appearance customization is a good thing, but you should only focus on maybe a couple (or however much you want) that are interesting to you. So if you’re more aware of tattoos, you might refer to it and have characters react to it more in your writing than if you included like a shoe size variable.

And family history is so broad! I hope you make another topic/post in this one more about the context of your story. Plus sidenote: I’m really looking forward to what you’re planning. I think all the stuff you’ve posted about character background is really promising b/c I think customization is everything (kinda). It’s my favorite and you’re focusing on it. High five.

Plus, setting’s a good way of deciding phys attributes among other things. Like, maybe players could pick out their enhancements (?) if they’re playing as a cyborg. Or their wings if they’re something winged; a griffon person for instance, like the Finns in Skin Deep Comic.

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