Simply put, how much grief do you think is acceptable to put players through?
If you were to, say, introduce a character early on, allow them to form a wonderful friendship over the course of the game, maybe even a romance, and overall just get players really attached to these people; would it be acceptable to suddenly kill this character off or have them befall a similar horrible fate from which they will never recover? Or would that make the story just completely unplayable, even if everything else is fine?
Of course, thatâs just an example. Maybe that doesnât apply to you. But I think the main question gets across; just how mean can you be without being too mean and ruining the game?
Iâm interested in opinions from both sides. Both developers and players.
Lots of people use these games as a form of escapism, so⌠you might easily run danger affecting someone negatively IRL if you do something like that for shock value or similar, without a warning.
As long as it is something that can be avoided and it isnât something that 100% happens then I canât see a problem with it.
After all this is interactive fiction; UnNatural has moments the player can lose teammates even has a scene where the player can be saved by their love interest who sacrifices themselves to protect them. Itâs a dark moment but it can be avoided.
I think things like that can be enjoyable in a weird sort of way that I canât explain. But for example in the dawn of the dead remake where that awesome guy(you know the one) gets bit at the end off screen, thatâs one of the best bits of the film for me, though I really canât explain why .
But also it can be used as a good way to build the mc, though I guess thatâd be more relevant to interactive novels or games closer to interactive novels as that would feel like control/decisions are being taken away from the mc.
But finally I think it could be good in cases where it is avoidable as it can add the sense of real consequence. Though if done in this way I think a series of bad choices leading up to the punishing event, rather than a single choice would be good. It would also add replayability, as someone might want to replay to get the âbestâ route and/or ending.
If they know what theyâre getting into, sure. I like being made miserable by a game/story, but I imagine it could annoy people who werenât expecting it, especially if the game features romantic options.
If sudden/arbitrary cruelty hits me hard in something I (usually) wonât be upset at the work, since if itâs affected me it means the writer has made me connect. Worst result isnât that Iâm so stunned I become upset and frustrated, itâs that I donât care and the twist just comes across as a desperate attempt to âshockâ. Can feel juvenile and pull me out of it entirely.
I think it depends on what kind of game youâre writing. I think a darker game would get away with more character death than a light-hearted game, for example. This sounds really obvious but if the game doesnât make the stakes clear early on, the death will jar the players, maybe too much.
Players grow very attached to characters, especially love interests, especially in interactive fiction. Killing or otherwise traumatizing one, especially one that the player forms a bond with, for shock value would probably make more than a few players quit in the middle of the game. However, itâs not that it canât be done, but rather that authors have to be a bit more careful.
If the death isnât for shock value or a source of schadenfreude on the part of the author, the player needs to know whatâs at stake early on. They need to be warned in some small way that the game could result in that, or at the very least that the story contains dark themes. Iâd also suggest giving them a way out of it, but this isnât as important for me as giving indications.
Oh I can take the most horrible things . I mean Iâll feel bad for a long time but I only rage quit if Iâm forced into a relationship I donât want in a gender locked male game like Lords of Aswick. Where I specifically avoided sex and relationships all ten times the game gives me the opportunity before forcing a marriage and consummation on me. Thatâs when âI said fuck you I donât have to play you.â
As I mentioned in another thread (here, if you want to read it), one of the ways I find it easiest to immerse myself in games is through the characters. In CS-style games, especially, itâs far easier for me to get invested in the other characters than it is for me to get invested in my own character. Or, more specifically, itâs my characterâs relationships with the other characters that get me invested. Iâm certainly interested in a good plot, but I need characters I actually like, and who I want to see alive at the end of that plot, otherwise I have no reason to keep reading. (And especially if thereâs a romantic element to that relationship⌠)
Thatâs as a player. As a writer, I am completely aware that sometimes a characterâs got to die. But I guess you have to ask yourself why you want that character to die? Is it because itâll make the story better, or is it to shock the players/readers? Because if itâs only the latter, I certainly wouldnât advise it. (I mean, most of the time itâll be both, but even then, you should make sure that the story takes precedence.) Also, if the character is a potential romance, I would very much advise you not to, or at least to allow the player to save the RO. For example: Sammyâs death in TF makes the game far more interesting, in my opinion, and Ryuâs is practically mandated by the plot, but I was never going to force those on players who wanted to romance them, because I want my players to play a game they enjoy playing, even if the plot itself suffers as a result.
I think it ultimately depends how much this grief has to do with the overall plot. I can handle angst and heartbreak if itâs for the sake of the story, but not for the sake of explicitly trying to add angst or because you donât know what else to do with the character.
The treatment of Solas vs Thane in Dragon Age and Mass Effect are good examples to look at for forcing the player to experience grief. Both popular romances that you get sufficient warnings are not going to end wellâadmittedly, Solasâs warnings are more subtle, but whatever. Solasâs romance, because it served the overall plot and will continue to serve the story, was an appropriate form of grief to inflict on the player. Thaneâs death, however, was not, because it wasnât reflected in the overall plot, felt like an afterthought, and made the playerâs decision to romance him feel unimportant.
Cant speak for magi, but pg is an anti-example.
Because the entire plot there has her pretty much wearing a
âTragic, doomed, edgy ROâ sign.
The plot constantly drapes itself over a fainting couch over how traaaaaagic it is and traaagic the player must find her fate.
I agree it sort of depends. If itâs a story that is light or you know classic fantasy then that can get annoying especially if they are well designed characters. If this is heavy fantasy for instance then it is fine. I like when the story is gripping.
I think it heavily depends on the genre depectedâŚ
Say in a tragedy or horror itâs is ingrained in our minds due to past stories and movies that individuals are not saved by some mysterious plot armor, sometimes even those loved most only have the faintest of protection and the willingness to sacrifice even ourselves might be the only thing to save anyone and that just might not be enough.
In romance or comedy itâs far less expected almost unnerving in many instances, though in rare cases great tragedy can happen and it hurts but if the is a way out that fits the story it brings more enjoyment when we make it through (just make sure we can make it there without giving up on trying)
In drama and sci-fi itâs a intresting thing challenge unimmaginable is needed but a warning is best before hand movies foreboding and dramatic music, games âIâve got a bad feelingâ ect ect we know itâs coming and we can brace just it has to be subtle and make sense for the situation for the character. If we ignore the signs oh well.
TLDR: itâs all in the genre and how itâs handed to us we as readers despite our escapism if were forwarned or understand the genre we can handle what is following said path and it will soften the blow but it will still hurt so make sure itâs worth it.
Edit: perspective of a rpger and frequent gamer and VN reader across a multitude of genres.
Not a author (despite trying)
I mean weâve already had the âeat human fingers, be raped and torturedâ gameâŚ
Anyway, it depends on what kind of audience your targeting I guess. I mean thereâs plenty of people ok with tragedy, genre shifts and deaths at any time. I mean things like Game of Thrones are popular. Plus if it is mandatory then thereâs less characters to write, youâd just need to write the reaction to it.
.
)
But I guess you have to ask yourself why you want that character to die? Is it because itâll make the story better, or is it to shock the players/readers? Because if itâs only the latter, I certainly wouldnât advise it. (I mean, most of the time itâll be both, but even then, you should make sure that the story takes precedence.) Also, if the character is a potential romance, I would very much advise you not to, or at least to allow the player to save the RO. For example: