Frankly, it’s sadly a huge part of modern life. The abusive relationship and sexual assault parts. Most people know someone affected by it. So I think it has a place in fiction, as fiction can be a method of talking about the problems of society. That being said, it can absolutely be done poorly and rather than send a message it just makes everyone uncomfortable
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The thing with Law and Order (and other Dick Wolf creations) is that they are very much works of their times. For example, going back and watching episodes dealing with LBTGQ issues, you really see how things like the Defense of Marriage Act, Don’t Ask - Don’t Tell policy really did more harm then good at the time. Although at the time, their portrayal was seen as very forward
Hopefully, we can do a better job that will stand up over time 10 or 20 years later.
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Unique game. May I ask how you ended the game? I accidentally killed Maartje.
De Baron is something else. I love it, it makes you think. It really captures the intense confusion and broken trains of logic someone trapped by trauma has. Where everything you think is tainted and when you try and take a high road you feel guilty or weak.
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Well,the video game Murdered:Soul Suspect also has a dark element in the identity of the bell killer,for those of you who have played this game.
Well, this bastard isn’t too dark for one of the most popular shows in the US…
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Ick, yeah I guess not although I thought they went a bit graphic there personally at times. Buuut…would you play a game where you are the one doing the sorts of things he does rather than just watching. I know I wouldn’t. So I’ve found one of my limits, thanks @Shawn_Patrick_Reed #TooDarkForMe 
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@Jacic Dark dark games exist out there in the deep dark interwebz. Ramsay is used as a villain in the Game of Thrones Telltale Games series, so it’s likely that most players would rather oppose a morally objectionable individual than be one… but games do exist that let the player be morally objectionable, and some may be arguably worse than Ramsay. There’s at least -some- interest in it for such games to exist. When everyone understands and keeps things in fictional context, no real problems. It’s when a player can’t separate right from wrong that there’s a problem. KNOWING and playing wrong, that’s fine. Thinking there’s nothing wrong with it and playing it, that’s dangerous. But - history itself was pretty horrible and graphic for a long long time. It’s a bit shocking to remember that worse things than the worst things depicted in modern fiction were real occurances. Eg Spanish Inquisition. And, you’re right- I wouldn’t want to play a torturer in a game. A villain? Sure. But there are usually limits, even if the limits aren’t the same between people.
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Personally, I don’t believe there is such a thing as too dark. However, the more dark something becomes, the more the author has to work to make me care about the characters instead of uttering the eight deadly words of “I don’t care what happens to these characters.” It’s all about investing people in the characters, of actually having an impact on the viewer/reader/somethinger.
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Can a story be too edgy? Too gory or visceral? If so what would you consider is the limit for it? Would you consider a different limit for other entertainment mediums such as film?
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Hmmm… 
I think the point where edgy-ness becomes too much for me, is when the plot and characters aren’t up to scratch, and the gore etc. is supposed to carry what is essentially a boring and inadequate story.
The edgy-ness is just flavour to me, not a big positive, so even though there is an audience for such stories, they don’t work for me, personally.
As long as the gore etc. is coupled with engaging characters and intriguing plot, it can go really far, before it starts to bother me.
As an example, I love Repo: the genetic opera, but don’t find slasher movies interesting at all…
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Not for me. A writer can and should do what they feel is best for the story. The biggest issue for me is when people use edgy to replace plot, message and characters. Also, like all design choices, some people will like it and some people won’t.
As a longtime horror/eurothrash fan there’s a reason why I think ‘Men behind the Sun’ is a classic movie, but ‘The Hostel’ is utter crap. And it’s not about the so-called edginess…
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For me, it’s always important to keep things like this in perspective for the over all plot like what was previously said. When you’re writing it, sometimes you need to stop and think, “What’s the reason for making it this detailed? Does it serve a purpose? What purpose is that? Does it make sense to keep going or am I doing this for the shock factor?”
Shock can work fine for those interested in it, but as someone who loves everything dark and edgy, I want to feel it for a reason. Being gut-punched by something grotesque means more when it’s not done “just because”. I quickly lose interest when it becomes clear that the author/director/whoever isn’t trying to entertain me, they’re just trying to disgust me. And why? That’s the question I want answered.
The limit is a separate discussion entirely. For me, there really isn’t a limit so long as it meets the requirements above, but many things seldom do. The media I love often gives great reasons for being edgy/violent, and the ones I forget almost never do.
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I was recently rewatching some horror classics like Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Cannibal Holocaust and compared to more modern jumpscare horrors I really miss the subtleties and effectiveness of gore. Hell, Texas Chainsaw Massacre has remarkably little gore and is still one of the most effective horror movies ever IMO
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Some horror writers just like to be meticulous in their descriptors of gore, but that being said their stories are very consistent in that
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Which I’m fine with! 
Most of my issues come out of any forms of media that spend absurd amounts of time on the gore and almost nothing on the rest of the story.
Yeah, I am just so bored with most modern gore/schlock horror, at least of the american variety. There’s a lot of interesting stuff happening in asia tho.
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Moved this over to the last thread on a similar topic…
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Well, “too dark” in the sense that I won’t enjoy it is different from too dark in the sense that I think it shouldn’t exist or is badly written. I don’t personally like gore, but a lot of people do, so hey guys, go enjoy your gory stories! It can be done well, just isn’t for me.
For me darkness is like spicy food. What I can handle is much higher than what I actually enjoy. I have found that I personally will tune out once I think the author/show creator is killing off every likeable character. Yes, it can have a purpose in the plot and be very well done, but…then the work continues, without that character, and often worse off for it. That’s not to say it’s always bad to kill off beloved characters but at this point I think it’s almost expected, and needs to serve a purpose bigger than “I’m going to really affect audiences’ emotions by doing this!”
That said I often enjoy works with dark themes, like slavery, war, etc. I think these themes can be used for a lot of good reasons, and can play with audience expectations and add realism. But I don’t like when people assume dark=realistic. I especially feel this way when it comes to sexual violence, which I have a problem with more because it is often done in a really sexist or creepy/exploitative way.
I really like games and stories that feel emotionally intense - Fallen Hero is a good example of a game that does this well, and doesn’t need random gore to do it, but there are all kinds of hints of terrible things that have happened to you. It’s all in how something is written, how intense/close it can feel. A game where thousands of people die where it feels pretty cartoonish/far away won’t have as much impact as a game where nobody even gets physically hurt but your best friend betrays you for instance.
As readers I think we often react more to the more personal anyway - ie it seems it’s easier to forgive a murderer who did it for Reasons than it is a former bully, for a lot of people.
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I really don’t care if it is a dark story, I usually think it’s more likely to annoy with a character rather than the story. I mean you can be gory without being edgy too, look at Doom and Bulletstorm. In fact one of my favorite things in stories are reasonably light characters in dark settings. Or people who are dark specifically because of their bright personality.
Though I am also saying this as a guy who’s 2nd and 3rd games were the suffering and manhunt as a tiny tot, and a criminal for a father (took a guy’s eye) Which I guess does make it annoying to me when people try to steer away from other subjects but dive into violence.
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