Hexfinder WiP - Play Chapters 1-10 (Now with chapter save checkpoints!)

Thank you for the reply!

C1 Terseness, additions

I’m in agreement with @RedRoses on Chapter One. I think if were hinted a bit more that the PC is a bit on guard, then the transition towards their Chapter Two personality wouldn’t be so abrupt.

The bit with the player having the first case being a bit… off’s good, I think it adds to the ambiguity of the job. I think a bit regarding constraints over not being as thorough as they might like would probably go some way in assuaging those who wanted to do more on the trial front.

Nice to hear! Though on a related note, I don’t recall it being mentioned in the text (i.e. outside of the stats pages) that there’s still ongoing fighting, especially in Scotland. I think that it would be pertinent to expressly mention that (Pym’s pamphlet mentions that the Scots “fight for the cause”, but people who don’t know much about the WTK might not know that’s actual open fighting) along with any information about Royalists/Parliamentarians that’ll go into the earlier chapters. Even if the PC is away from the fighting, ongoing conflict has different repercussions compared to one which has largely died off – and they might get the wrong impression from the flask in Chapter 3.


Personalities

I absolutely agree here. But, I also think that can lead to a major conflict between powergaming and roleplaying when it comes to personality-based stat checks, which I think is the root of the issues I’ve raised.

On the one hand, having such checks gives variations between playthroughs and playstyles, which is a good thing. However, I feel it can run the risk of choice selection becoming a formality. The more personality shows up in stat checks, and the harder these are to pass, the more incentivised a player is to push to the extremes so as to pass as many checks as possible, rather than on a roleplaying basis. This is especially the case with COG, since there’s no save or back function.

I think Hexfinder is particularly affected by the conflict between powergaming and roleplaying because of the personality stats themselves. Most games seem to have something like idealistic/cynical, merciful/ruthless, pragmatic/honourable, emotional/stoic, trusting/suspicious set of personality traits where it’s relatively easy to place oneself/one’s character on a linear scale and moving to one extreme or the other isn’t that difficult for role-playing purposes. How much more merciful is someone at 55% and someone at 65%?

However, I don’t think zealotry, adherence to authority and political beliefs are so easily translated to a linear scale, especially given the charged atmosphere of the setting and historical basis. While an idealistic response may fit for all characters who are slightly idealistic, there are different grades of adherence to authority with significant differences between them, and likewise for the other options.

In addition, while avarice and paranoia are relatively cut and dry, these “ideological” traits are somewhat broader and muddled between each other. As mentioned, Zealous isn’t just someone who’s dedicated to their work, but has a strongly religious element. Skeptic largely concerns magic, but also has some religious facets, with mentions of being against faith or cautious of condemning things as heretical (which arguably also has an anti-authoritarian bent?). Authoritarian is a follower of any type of authority.

I still think these traits should be kept in some way – they make the roleplaying interesting and more immersive. I think this is also why I felt some of the options were too overt, especially the “Skeptic” choice discussed above; in hindsight, the overly-Skeptical response mentioned above may be very strong, but clearly establishes it as not being “Indifferent”. I think it’s also why I mentioned the “tiers” of personality options, because there’s a major difference between a mild skeptic and a major skeptic.

I feel like there’s also the unconscious suggestion that in order to achieve a certain outcome, you need to beeline for certain personality traits. Like someone who wants a Royalist ending must have high Authoritarian and Royalist, while someone who wants a Pontifex ending needs high Zealous and Pontifex, which consequently dissuades equivocation. While in other games you might have a hint as to what being on one end of a mercy/ruthless slider will do, you don’t know how it will affect the course of the plot. While in Hexfinder from the start it seems like some stats will inevitably be connected to the longterm course of the plot.


I think this is significant because importance of the personality stat checks themselves. I think if there were fewer of them which had a significant impact upon the plot, then it wouldn’t be so much an issue. Where if the majority of impactful statchecks were based upon attributes, and with some exceptions, personalities would be there for flavour or the occasional stat check. The demo so far - especially Chapter 3 - seems to pin personality stat checks as being as nearly equal in importance as attribute-based ones.

A related idea would be to sort-of separate personality traits and “ideological” traits. Like how Royalist/Parliamentarian and Pontifex/Covenant are separate from the other stats, but bundle Skeptic, Authoritarian and potentially Zealotry with that. These would affect plot points but come up less frequently in stat checks. The remaining personality checks would come up as frequently as they do now.

Alternatively, perhaps faction relations could be spun off into their own relationship stat like with the other characters, keeping the personality traits and Royalist/Parliamentarian and Pontifex/Covenant as just tendencies? Where having those traits be high would make it easier to get a certain ending, but you could still achieve it with high raw stats and judicious choices. This would model the difference between a bootlicking Royalist (high Royalist + Authoritarian + Royalist relations) and a less-enthusiastic one (high Royalist relations, but the other two stats are lower).

I think that or lowering the importance of personality checks vs attribute checks are the only ways I’ve seen it done, really. For the former, I think Metahuman, Inc did it pretty well, in that sometimes a middle-ground personality worked best, others an extreme personality worked best. It also had partial successs if I recall correctly. However I do admit that it only had two personality stats to keep track of and it was particularly complex.


All of this was a bit hard to put to words, so apologies if it’s a bit disjointed. Hope it was somewhat useful at least.

@PParrish I was playing the demo again last night, and I remembered one of my issues with the way Chapter 1 is set up. So if you investigate the goats, you automatically go to visit the accused. I suspect that the other two options have something else you automatically do. I think the decision to only allow us to do 2 of the 3 choices would go over better if we were allowed to choose what we do for the second investigation task.

Hm, I need to check that, because you should still be able to choose if you look at the goat pens first!

@PParrish

A few “first impressions and thoughts” for your feedback loop. I am currently dealing with COVID related life concerns, so I will defer in-depth feedback until later.

As always, I enjoy your prose and your dialogue. I already feel a bond forming nicely between the two hexfinders and your factions in the society you have built are introduced nicely.

The world-building in this story is going to be much more demanding, and it will require more effort, especially for those familiar with history to buy in and feel immersed, compared to your first game.

The MC, this time around feels on a “loosing leash” so far in this sample. I felt, that no matter the choice, I was experiencing set-back, frustration and intential road-blocking.

The major exception to this was with the co-hexfinder… that relationship, as established felt more natural and organic.

Conclusions:

1: I see tons of potential and a solid base of groundwork that should help this game succeed in getting audience buy-in and acceptance. I am looking forward to seeing it grow.

2: This game presents a different set of obstacles to overcome; the sample is too early to see trends in overcoming them, but I know you, as an author have the tools to hit a home-run with this game.

1 Like

New Year, time for a new post!

@Eiwynn Encouraging words, thank you very much. Yes, the world-building has been a different challenge. There’s so much real material to draw from, but a great deal of it is very complex and confusing (the religious conflict in particular), and I can’t rely on much prior knowledge … except in cases where people have a lot of knowledge of the period, and that presents a whole other issue.

What I’m trying to do is pull enough from the themes of the time (a country pretty wrecked by war, absolute paranoia about PLOTS everywhere, religious conflict, doubt over the complete authority of monarchy) and then mix in my own elements (the nature of ‘crime’ and who gets to decide upon, and prosecute that, actual weird magic stuff, land ownership/hierarchy). And, as now seems to be my preferred choice, a protagonist who has some power, but is always restrained, beholden to, or pulled around by other forces. I’m kind of anti-power fantasy … maybe a bit much, sometimes.

I hope your COVID concerns are not too serious - or can at least be overcome.

@RedRoses I went back to check this, and you can definitely go and see either Ursula or Grace after investigating the goats as your first option. At the part where you are confronted by Em, two of the three choices (either that mention the magistrate - I should probably add Grace’s name there) send you to Grace :slight_smile: Same goes for whatever you choose as a first destination - you can always choose one of the two remaining as your next stop, and you will always be interrupted before you can visit the last one.

@Thfphen110 Chapter 4 has information about the ongoing war (well, I envisage it as a sort of stalemate with periodic skirmishes) with the Scots, but I think some earlier mention would be merited, yes. There’s a space in Chapter 2, around when you get the pamphlet, that is ripe for a bit of expositionary chat with Anna. I think I need a moment that quickly gets people who are totally unfamiliar with the English Civil War (or familiar, but curious how this ‘version’ differs) up to speed … hopefully without it coming across TOO exposition-ey.

So, back to personality chat. I think I can hopefully alleviate one of your concerns here.

I think the unfinished state of my stats page might have made this appear not to be the case, but Royalist/Parliamentarian pretty much are tendencies. Or, rather, they will be secondary stats that reflect which faction is in ascendancy (altered by player action, or inaction, accordingly). You can nudge the Royalist one higher while not necessarily being an outspoken Royalist. Same for the Pontifex/Covenant.

I’ve just finished a section in Chapter 4 where you can gain a few Royalist points by being merciful and even vaguely anarchist (as well as being authoritarian and zealous), because you’re overcoming an obstacle on behalf of the queen. Later on, when you get the chance to side with parliament (or what remains), you’ll be able to go about that with the full set of talents and various personality types. At least, that’s the plan!

For a while in the design phase I think I did have ‘Zealotry’ as a secondary stat which would only change after stat checks and so on - but I decided people playing a Hex/Witchfinder game would very much want the direct dialogue options to live out their inner Vincent Price fantasies.

I think … yes and no? I’m definitely all about tossing in quite a few personality stat checks, because I find that otherwise it’s really easy to stumble into that ‘well, here we go, time to use one of my two high level main talents again’ trap. I do try to keep the personality tests on the easier side (unless it’s a case of, “no, only a really, REALLY ruthless person would be able to do this” or whatever) for the reasons you mention - I don’t want people to be worried about shying away from a dialogue option because it might cost them crucial anarchy points.

Chapter 3 is about 50-50 for skills/personality tests, yes. But! The most important ones are skill checks - the encounter with Nico (which if you pass allows you to choose whether to accept her invitation or not), and the first time you are ‘discovered’ as an imposter in the glade. If you fail that glade skill check, THEN you get a personality test as a fallback.

The ‘side quest’ parts (windmill or doggy fortune teller) are both personality tests, but they are very easy ones. Early on there’s another easy one when chatting with (or failing to chat with) Anna, but that’s mostly just flavour.

Thank you for the recommendation of Metahuman, Inc - I’ll take a look!

4 Likes

I’ve just started playing this, and it’s pretty good, but for whatever reason i seem to be facing an error where every time i get to the part after the cult happening, i get stuck. It keeps loading on and on and on, forever. I don’t think it should be taking that long, should it?

That’s the end of Chapter 3, where the current demo/beta ends. There will be more to come, when I’ve written it :slight_smile:

I see, i thought it was an error because it just kept loading on and on instead of ending more normally. You have to admit it can be a bit confusing.

Either way, i’m hyped for what’ll come next.

Greetings, hexfinders. Chapter 4 is on the way (currently in editing) - it’ll be added to the demo, along with a few changes to the first chapters, relatively soon!

I’m at the point where the branches are expanding the chapters in size and scope, so they take longer than a month to write. The historical-ish backdrop to this title also requires more specific research than Plague Doctor (where I could just make most of it up!) - since I’m setting this in Oxford, it seems only right to make efforts towards accuracy with the buildings. Hexfinder is alt-history, so I’ve got some leeway there, but it still needs to be “right” to my own satisfaction.

To that end, maps and diagrams have proved handy! I’ve been getting a lot of use out of this 1643 map of Oxford. Oddly, it chooses to allign everything to the south (so the ‘eastern gate’ is over on the west and so on), but aside from that quirk it has the locations of all the major colleges, the castle, etc.

For more granular detail, I’ve been using floor plans of places like Christ Church and its attendant cathedral - as well as various online resources for checking which parts of the buildings were actually there during the Civil War period. For example, the northern buildings of Christ Church’s ‘Great Quadrangle’ were not built until after the war - but I’ve altered the timeline a bit to say they were ‘newly constructed’ instead.

Going back to actual, physical books … my main source for ‘so what was that civil war all about, then?’ has been The English Civil War: Papists, Gentlewomen, Soldiers, and Witchfinders in the Birth of Modern Britain (quite a mouthful - I think this is sometimes published under the shorter title ‘A People’s History’), by Diane Purkiss.

It takes a pretty interesting approach, using a lot of contemporary sources and kind of skipping about in terms of its topics (there’s a whole chapter on the emergence of cookery books during the period). I think as an A-to-B telling of the English Civil War(s) it’s possibly a bit scattered - but in terms of depicting people involved in the war, through their own words, it’s great. What I also took from the book was a strong, ongoing theme that everybody, everywhere, at all times, was utterly paranoid about plots, schemes, and secret Papal armies that were about to appear on the horizon. Plenty of nice parallels to our contemporary society and politics, there.

11 Likes

Played the demo awhile back and it’s still as good as I remembered it, loved the plague doctor one too so can’t wait till this comes out.

Also, does increasing scrutiny always decrease pistoleer and vise versa? It’s going to be difficult making a sharp eyed character but maybe there’s enough points for it to be doable

1 Like

At the moment those two are ‘opposed,’ yes. My current thinking goes like this:

Scrutiny (non-violent, considered study) vs Pistoleer (active, violent, quick-ish)
Pedantry (precision, linguistics, abstract specifics of law/language) vs Bad Penny (chaotic imprecision, material consequences)
Accusation (direct, forceful speech) vs Occultist (indirect hidden knowledge)

That’s just for the opening chapter though, and of course is not 100% locked in at this stage! You always get more of a boost than a decline, so you could ‘top up’ Scrutiny with a later choice, but I’m concerned that could leave some people with a bit of an ‘okay at a few things, but not great at anything’ character. Hm.

I definitely plan to include a few more places where you can boost individual main stats, as was the case in Plague Doctor. I’m having trouble fitting in excuses to do that in an ‘organic’ fashion, though that’s perhaps an issue with the genre. I’ve found it’s hard to present a stat boost as anything other than a big flashing sign saying “get yer stat boost here! this is a choice where you boost a stat!”

Probably overthinking it though, I don’t feel that’s a huge problem or anything - I’d just like to figure out an elegant way to disguise it a bit (without it being TOO obscure).

Bit of an update while I’m here. Chapter 4 is still with editorial (busy times at CoG!) Chapter 5 has 26k words in it, so that’s coming along in the meantime.

3 Likes

Yeah that makes a lot of sense why increasing one reduces the other, though maybe it could be included in stat explanation so show that they oppose each other. I can see how some people will be confused when going for a detective type character that can shoot and investigate. Though maybe it’s not needed since this interaction is not particularly hard to find out.

I personally am ok if there are few stats boost as long as it doesn’t hinder the story, I think for choice of rebels there is only one or two stat boost in-game and the rest is all from character creation, but that’s a rare example since it’s the only I can think of.

Oh my gosh oh my gosh oh my gosh, I cannot believe it! This looks so wonderful! Mask of the Plague Doctor is one of my all time favourite CoG books (probably tied at number 1 with Jolly Good) and I am so happy you are writing another book! 4 or 5 romantic interests sound lovely! Will our chance at a “happily ever after” with them be tied with our personalities and moral choices, like in the Plague Doctor? I quite liked Ioco (he looks like Ser Jorah from GoT in my head, for some reason), but it felt kind of sad that both Lucia and Alice were barred to me in most of my playthroughs.

1 Like

Lovely to hear that you’re excited for it :smiley:

Apologies for the long wait between chapters being posted. No big dramas in my life or anything, it’s just a long game and taking a while to write. The next time I update, Chapter 4 and Chapter 5 will be added together, which is about 90k-ish new words! I posted the demo on the Winter Solstice, and it looks like this next stage should appear close to the Summer Solstice. A Solstice-based schedule was not exactly planned, but now it’s happening I’m happy to roll with it.

To a degree, although I might try to balance it to be a little bit more lenient.

I understand that it sucks to feel ‘locked out’ of certain routes. But I also like to try to write your potential companions as people with their own principles and desires. If you do something they find thoroughly objectionable, they won’t be keen to get close to you!

In Plague Doctor, as you may have figured out, I had some hard toggles where if you (for example) told Alice you’d support her experimenting on herself, and then went back on that, you could never gain her affections again.

I’m not sure whether I’ll use binary ‘deal breakers’ again this time. So far (part way through Chapter 6), I have not.

However, if we take Richard, for example - he’s no fan of bishops and church hierarchy (and you’ll get a better idea why as the story progresses). If your character and personality is all about how great bishops are and how you love centralized theocratic authority, he will probably remain civil, but he’s not going to feel attracted to you. But that will be a cumulative thing, I do want players to be able to have disagreements with companions without it ending any chance of romance.

I guess what I’m always aiming for is for people to be able to maintain whatever character they’re role-playing, and not feel like “oh, damn, I need to switch to being a Royalist here, purely because I want this character to like me.” Granted, that could be part of the consideration (I’ll lie to keep their affections), but unless the choice is specifically written as “I am deciding to lie here” it’s difficult for the game to keep track of those sorts of meta-intentions.

6 Likes

Thank you so much for your in depth response! Yes, I absolutely feel like our cumulative choices should decide whether we’re compatible with an RO or not. I just want more of a wiggle room to have disagreements, like you said. And yaay! Summer solstice fast approaches! I wish there were more solstices in a year haha.

Edit: Pedantry is absolutely my new favourite attribute! I just love going around with my fabulous hat and my imposing robes and quibbling with people over their choice of words. The characters with whom we can build a relationship are already all so likeable! I deeply regret having started reading this book, given that I’ll be sighing and grumbling in equal measures until I can read the whole book. In the meantime, I think I’ll play as a hexfinder given to randomly accusing people. The tone of the book is vaguely unsettling so perhaps this trait will strike that chord of irreverent humour I could access as an optimistic, oblivious plague doctor. Is there absolutely NO way for us to save the books though? I just…I need those books to be saved. Also the political nuances are amazing! I realised that Charles I and his French consort have been gender swapped but does Cromwell remain a dude? And Sir Fairfax is now Lady Jane Fairfax? (Or am I confusing the character with Jane Fairfax with Jane Austen’s Emma?) Gahhh, I need to read everything multiple times over. The LGBTQ situation is also very interesting, given that the girl the Magistrate referred to as “my love” was said to be “lodging” with her. Was that intentional or did I read too much into it?

1 Like

Well, the Summer Solstice update plan didn’t really come to fruition, did it? This is more of an Autumn Equinox update now… But the good news is, that means an additional chapter, making six in all. That’s taken the total word count to around 220k, and a lone playthrough to around 50-55k.

In these new chapters, you’ll be getting tangled up in an Oxford hanging, interrogating the realm’s most notorious traitor, traveling further afield in search of answers, and probably wondering who exactly you can trust.

Play the extended WiP of Hexfinder, here!

I’ve (probably, hopefully) implemented the Dashingdon/CJW save system too, so you can use up to three slots.

In these new chapters, there’s quite a lot of multireplace stuff (and basically situations where the player is with one colleague or another, knows things/doesn’t know things, and so on) - so what I’m particularly interested in catching is any spots where I’ve messed that up and it seems like continuity has gone a bit wrong.

I’m also interested to know whether the whole religious situation is presented with enough clarity for people who don’t have any prior knowledge of the historical situation. Can you make enough sense of the divisions/split between the Pontifex (Catholics), Anglican Church, and Godly Covenant (puritan protestants, basically)? Or at least enough to muddle through.

In general though, all thoughts are welcomed and encouraged!

There will probably be some lingering spacing/formatting issues on the stats pages. I’m working on those and cleared a few up, but I wouldn’t be surprised if some remain.

Sorry, I totally missed these questions first time around! Jane Fairfax is a mix of Thomas Fairfax and his wife Anne - and more militant for the sake of the narrative. Cromwell’s gender has not changed, but, I mean, everybody says he’s dead …

Intentional :slight_smile: But as you may have seen if you took the magistrate to trial and successfully accused her, one cares rather more about the other.

14 Likes

I fell in love with this immediately and the writing seemed so familiar to me but I couldn’t place it and now I finally realized you wrote The mask of the plague doctor! That was a brilliant book and wow am I an idiot for not realizing it sooner :sweat_smile:
Thanks for this update I’m really looking forward to reading this!

4 Likes

Am I supposed to have only one good skill or is my attempt to have a mc who is good at investigating,shooting and Intimidate dooming me to failure

1 Like

I’d say it’s my intent for the player to have two skills they feel they can rely on (and then maybe one other where you’ll ‘succeed’ at the middle level if it’s a three-tiered outcome kinda thing) - but it might be possible to play the opening and only end up with one (very) boosted one.

If you’ve got a screenshot, let me take a look.

Test/skill balancing is certainly not final, so I’ll be taking this kind of thing on board :slight_smile:

I certainly don’t want the player to constantly fail skill checks and feel like their character isn’t ‘working,’ but I also don’t want people to be able to just hammer the same couple of skills and succeed every time. As well as the usual trick of making sure not every skill option is available at every check, I try to mix it up a bit by having combo talent+personality checks and things like that. Or, as mentioned, the triple-tier type.

Overall, I think I want people to feel as if they’re succeeding relatively often with whatever ‘build’ they’ve selected, but still enjoying it when things go a bit wrong, and confident enough to try a more unusual choice if needed. Probably impossible to absolutely nail that, but it’s something to aim for!

1 Like