Same.
That’s kinda true but honestly, adding those indicators add more in convenience than they take in immersion so I tend to like them.
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It does help make the characters feel more like someone I’d want a relationship with, i.e. honest and communicative.
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I personally use mainly humor to flirt, which is pretty common, yet for some reason I can’t remember ever seeing this as an option in IF.
The subtlety of flirting is exactly what makes it so hard to get across in written text, and that’s why I fully understand why some would rather have it made as clear as possible what their choice does, but markers should be optional and the rest is just bad writing.
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The subtlety is also exactly why I don’t like it, lol.
Well, I’m not suggesting that characters should not be honest and communicative. Being at least a little more up-front about some things than in real life is usually a good thing in IF.
Still, I think it is better not to have a ‘flirt’ option so explicitly labeled. Relationships are built more organically than that. Romance can be strengthened without saying flirty things, and friends may do things that could seem flirtatious but equally might just be their way of communicating. Hayden’s example of humour is relevant—maybe flirting, maybe just making a joke. I feel that the best way to handle being up front about romance is simply to ask. Just as in real life, if you wanted to date or court someone, there would come a point where you ask them.
Then again, I may be in the minority on this. I’m also one of those who is okay with the NPCs initiating romantic conversations (possibly influenced by options chosen prior, which may or may not consist of flirting), which I’ve seen others object to in the past. It’s refreshing to have the choice of accepting or declining, rather than always being the suitor/suitress/(gender-neutral equivalent of those terms).
That said, I have a tendency to go for the hardest-to-get RO I find appealing in any given game, so functionally I often end up in that role anyway, but just because I pursued Seraphina in Keeper of the Sun and Moon doesn’t mean I didn’t appreciate Astrid and Leon asking me out!
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As someone who is guilty of using hearts in the choices… for me, they are only there to remind the readers that this option will trigger romance or a sweet romantic reaction with that NPC as some readers also don’t like when they inadvertently increase romance points with someone they didn’t want to.
I even use the fire emoji as a beware if you choose this option things will get hot :
Then, once the reader chooses the option they want, and if it is a romantic or flirtatious scene with that RO, that’s where the blush option will show up.
So far I don’t think I have used the “wink” as I don’t see how it will work, especially if some relationship is not yet built with that RO.
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And like I said, I can totally see how this is helpful for many, for several reasons. I just… No, I’m sorry, it just isn’t for me. It breaks my personal immersion and reminds me too much of social media and messengers. It also reminds me of the fact that I’m reading something on my phone (in my case).
So far I’ve never dropped a story because of it, and probably never will, but I would appreciate the option to toggle them on and off, but as someone who has never used choice script himself, I don’t know how hard it would be to implement.
The blushing and winking is something I can’t look past, though. I can live with the emojis, because the actual flirting is what matters in the end, and both options simply aren’t something I see real people do (very sporadic blushing aside), let alone would do myself or can see my MCs doing.
With regards to the blushing specifically: I have noticed once an author has decided to utilize the blushing, the option comes up aaaallllll the time. Perhaps I wouldn’t mind so much if it was used more sparingly.
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One mechanic which irritates me is when certain choices and dialogues are locked behind personality stats. For example you’re not allowed to respond to something seriously, because you’ve previously focused on sarcastic options.
It’s fine if certain characters just won’t believe you’re sincere due to your earlier dialogue, and stuff like that. Or if it’s locked behind actual skills (so you can’t talk about a subject your character isn’t versed in). But otherwise, not only is it unrealistic to expect people to act the same way all the time, it also gets in the way of giving your MC character development.
I mean, it’s not like taking a different tone in conversation is something you’d ever become incapable of doing, just because you don’t normally. So that’s a totally arbitrary limitation on something which should always be up to the player to decide.
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+1 to everyone who’s mentioned this. How a character of mine behaves towards enemies vs strangers vs friends vs lovers often varies enormously.
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In particular for games where personality stats really don’t matter (like, Wayhaven’s personality stats are really more there as a measure of how your attitude is, they don’t do very much beyond that), it makes no sense for my character to be incapable of saying something because they’re not intimidating enough, or because they’re not funny enough, or some shit like that.
Like, okay, make up your mind: do these stats matter, or not?
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Wayhaven personality stats affect NPC responses.
IIRC, your Optimism rating also affects some results when escaping Murphy.
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I just remembered a thing I hate in choice games: The made up words, doubly so when there’s no glossary, it’s less of an issue now that I’m more fluent in english but when I first started, games like Versus were unplayable for me due to all the made up words, random made up swear words and terminology that is never introduced or explained, they’re just there and you have to guess what it means.
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Right, yeah, but beyond that, they’re really just there to show, “hey, you’re x amount stoic, that’s neat.”
Unless book three onwards makes it a point to take your personality stats deeper into account - like, somebody goes, “damn, why are you so negative all the time?” in response to having high intimidation or something, I dunno.
No, I mean, it affects Murphy escape options AND NPC responses.
For example, if you’re in the M romance and you use the charming option when talking with the ticket seller, M remarks they didn’t expect that from you if you have low charming. If you’re in somebody else’s romance, you accompany M after you visit the destroyed carnival and you tell them that everything’s going to be ok if Bravo works together, they remark that everyone says that sort of stuff but you’re the only one they trust actually believes it if you have high enough personality trait for it.
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I fully understand what you mean and how it can be unwelcome, but I think it’s good to at least have the option to label romantic options. It helps clarify “hey reader, this is going to be taken as you being somewhat attracted to or flirting with this person”. It’s good to have that clarity to me, so that I’m on the same page as the author and don’t unknowingly end up in a relationship or flirt accidentally. I do greatly dislike the general dichotomy of bold and shy options, though. I’m super shy in reality (in the hypothetical situation where I interact with someone in person), but I don’t get all flustered and stammering (well, no more than I normally am) and “
” like the shy options generally are. I know there’s only so much authors can do, and accommodating everything and everyone’s characteristics is unrealistic, but it’s very welcome to have a variety of options. Just in general, honestly, even if it’s purely flavor.
And I do agree about relationships not being that easy and clear (like holy fuck it’s so unclear), so having basic “you flirt or you don’t” options is pretty unrealistic. I don’t really know a solution, though, as the author can’t know how we feel unless there’s an option for it, and we can’t know if something’s meant to be a push for romance unless it’s super obvious/explicit.
Oh, and might as well mention that I have no fucking clue how people flirt, so don’t take my word on anything. The only relationship I’ve had came about from us talking like “hey we like each other, probably more than platonically, let’s see how this goes”, and that’s probably the closest I can do. Also heart emojis as digital hugs. Because I’m that type of bitch. It’s the only way I know to show emotion. Deeply faked sociopathy is fucking hard to get over.
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I just like shy options because it tend to allow the ROs to have some more initiative and show a bit more character.
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I would want the other person to take the initiative, but if I have to do it myself, I’m going to be very direct.
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I hate when my character is constantly helpless to a ridiculous degree, like even going up the stairs is described as some great odyssée for them by the narrator.
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I think the solution to the ambiguity of relationships is actually, as you describe in your second paragraph, just asking about it. That’s what normal people do, instead of assuming they are in a committed relationship just because of a few heart-labeled options.
Yes, I do mean that the NPCs could do this too, if the player picked some options that could be construed as romantic interest but not necessarily so (or even other options that might have nothing to do with romance but that the NPC found attractive). I know some don’t like this, but honestly, in real life it’s perfectly natural for other people to express interest. You can turn them down. The key thing, I think, is not to then make the NPCs too pushy about the whole affair.
Well, maybe if done poorly, but frankly, I’m not suggesting that every choice be a minefield of attraction-options! The majority of interactions with other people tend to have nothing to do one way or another with romance, and that’s perfectly okay (unless the game is a dating sim of some sort, but then you know what you’re getting into anyway).
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It would get awkward pretty quick and isn’t really subtle either.
The choices being clear is a lot more important IMO and it’s not like you can ask the NPC ‘hey, was that option I picked flirting?’
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