Definitely the truth this time!
My goal is to hit the ground swinging with the first WiP release and then build off that momentum.
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REAL!!! this is how i’m looking at my project, too. and hopefully any other project i ever do ever!! i love writing so much, that’s it. everything else will be what it is, whatever. but i love writing, and i want to write what i want to write!
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Been a while since I posted a goal, particularly given the consistency of which I missed them. So I will keep it light in the hopes that it can also help clear some of the writers block. A clear 10K words written this month. I’ve only thus far managed 700. But hopefully I can clear more in the future.
I do hope you all manage to keep up your own goals and projects too. I often find myself motivated further whenever I read other IFs. And the recent releases and WIPS have added a small pep in my step so to speak. May you find similar motivation. And have a wonderful Decemeber and accompanying Christmas.
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Hey, I have not published under hosted games and given my impulsive to start a new story every now and then…I wonder/worry if I will get the chance to…So given that, I am not entirely certain if my advice would be applicable to you, since you are more aware of how the inner-workings function.
However I came across a comment on reddit that said something allong the lines of:
“There are two types of writers. Ones who treat writing as a job and ones who don’t. The ones who do treat it as a job, have to follow market trends and tropes because just like any job, you can’t just do whatever you want. The the ones, who don’t treat it as a job, do the opposite.”
So like you mentioned here:
I really do think that despite it feeling difficult to do at the moment but if you have a serious conversation with yourself, about what you are hoping to accomplish with this project. Is your aim to make a “cult classic”, where only 20 people can’t stop speaking about it. OR are you aiming for a “box-office smash” for lack of a better term; where you cover enough tropes to accommodate everyone’s interests.
Once the vision you have for you and your project is clear, it might make things easier. And the bright-side is that you can constantly go back and forth between the two. Where your next project is more about scratching an itch/idea you have. So you understand that, not that many people might like it and it’s fine because you know, what you were aiming for. Then your current or perhaps another one, can be done with the intention of accommodating everyone’s interests.
Then with this, if you can I would suggest that you to read older text-based games with 40k-100k word counts for a bit of inspiration. Once you are done, ask yourself “Did you enjoy the story?” If your answer is “yes.” Then hopefully that’s enough to strengthen your resolve.
Anyway, best of luck. Do hope, things get better.
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I always remember the story about Steve Jobs. Everyone said, no one wants a touchscreen on a phone. And he ignored what people were saying and created the iPhone, which was the best-selling product in Apple’s history.
I also remember when everyone told Nokia that no one would want non-smartphones any more. Nokia ignored what people were saying, and their business imploded.
Very important lessons for us all.
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The thing about following market trends is that unless you’re very very fast, there’s a real, very huge risk that they’ve already shifted when your book is out, so you may be better served by doing what you want anyway. (And writing something you’re not happy with doesn’t tend to lead to good results anyway.)
I’d also warn against treating writing as too much of a job, unless you’re one of the lucky ones - most professional authors earn a month’s wage in a year from their books.
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That, but it’s also quite possible to achieve both; to treat it like a job in some ways and like a pet project in others. As they say, balance. You do not have to choose to do solely what is unreasonable for you or what you aren’t wanting in pursuit of what is popular:
A. It will probably be obvious your heart isn’t in it and there’s a good chance you’ll burn out unless you’re a special kind of person. At the end of the day, regardless of readership size, we want to write and read stories that are imbued with love and care.
B. No one can truly predict what will blow up and what will not, anyway. Especially in a field like this where we don’t and probably will not ever have metric fuck tons of major publisher marketing behind us to manipulate the situation. It’s better to do what you can reliably get out to have multiple eggs in varied baskets which is what most authors who live off writing do to make it feasible.
C. There are loads of popular concepts. Surely, more than a few of them would be something mutually exciting or that could be compromised? Play to the advantages of the story you already envision. It’s bound to have an angle you can lean into/spin.
D. Building on the above, there are plenty of ways to sell yourself in packaging that the proverbial ~people~ like to a larger extent. Eye-catching demo pages, covers that pop, clean descriptions that highlight what will be attention-grabbing, etc. etc. A lot of the demand for updates for example comes from a place of anxiety for the players, not knowing where at in development the game they’re emotionally invested in is and if it’s being currently written, is in hiatus or is abandoned. A demo page that has an update log kept up to date with what you’ve completed and what you’re working on now can help with that somewhat even if you’re still not maintaining a strict schedule.
E. Points like the trend of large wordcounts started from authors, not from audience demand as much. Writers who wanted to create games of that magnitude or who simply wound up doing so consistently are the reason that became the standard. It didn’t originate as something players expected that forced us to acquiesce. When we discuss the competition being stiffer, what we’re talking about is an explosion of options from other creators, not folks in the audience carefully puppeteering the market. So, if it was initially driven by authors, there’s nothing saying authors can’t go against the grain again.
F. I read something like this on @cataphrak’s blog (I believe), but it’s extremely true so I’ll repeat it in my own understanding. The hardest and most important quality in an author isn’t the ability to shape the content of the stories to the crowd’s liking, but the discipline to work consistently on whatever it is you do write (mind you, consistent doesn’t mean lightning pace, just that you can stick to it). Everything else secondarily proceeds from this mastery. I would add to that the fortitude to filter the white noise of both real and perceived public pressure you will experience either way so you’re not cycling in a loop instead of going forward. Taking feedback into consideration is one thing. But no one can please everyone so it’s best to focus on pleasing yourself first. There comes a time we do simply have to make a choice we will regret the least and stand behind said choice. Flip flopping only stresses you and your audience.
G. Truly ask yourself: might a lot of this pressure be leaning towards perceived? Is it your audience largely demanding you change, or are you also in part not avoiding comparison, not managing your own expectations for yourself and your games?
That’s just my two cents. I haven’t published on here of course, but I am published outside this forum and that’s pretty much the gist of what my experiences have taught me.
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Didn’t read this thread super in depth, but I think like most things it’s not a binary but a spectrum. And like you wrote – even if it were a binary, picking one option one day won’t preclude you from the other option the next time around.
Yes – that in a nutshell. That’s the key …. now if I can just figure out the how one of these days.
OMG yes – I feel like I used to be a step ahead on this, but even if you are today, that won’t last, which is fine. I feel like its always going faster and faster … and not just the market trends, but society and technological movements behind the scenes too. For example, me writing the start of Super Sorority a few years ago …. “Hmm …. I think I’ll add cute little AI’s for those on the tech route to have as a sort of side kick. It’llbe super futuristic.” Now when I eventually go back to working on that project it will be downright retro… all well I guess.
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As someone who has published under Hosted Games, and does do this as a full time job, I’m going to call bullshit here.
Interactive Fiction is already a niche, and what I want to write is primarily a niche within a niche, and despite that I do pretty well (at least, by author standards), because even though I write for a very small fraction of the general audience, that audience is huge. I can survive off that audience because my passion for what I want to write translates into a desire to continue writing and delivering stories of as high a quality as I can make them.
If your goal is to deliver a tentpole story which appeals to the vast majority of a general audience, then yeah, maybe you should chase those trends - but that the sort of thing which exists in the realm of AAA development, where a game needs to move millions of units just to make back its budget. We do not exist in that realm, and as we watch the slow-motion ossification and collapse of the AAA development system, it’s very easy to se why.
You’re better off catering to a relatively small number of people who are the sake kind of absolute sicko as you are than you are trying to cater to everyone - because in an age when your potential audience is literally billions of other human beings, that relatively small number can still be big enough.
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Bouncing off the discussion about audiences and market trends, I do have a persistent level of anxiety that I am writing a project that Hosted Games may not choose to publish. Horror is not often seen, and from what I have read from previously published titles, the horror intensity has been fairly mild.
Does anyone have any advice for this? Is it best to continue my story’s trajectory or find ways to ‘be more publishable’? In any case, I do want to state that my goal is to have my game published, and I am willing to take notes and play ball with the publishing team when my game eventually reaches that.
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Truthfully, I disagree with the statement.
While yes, it may have some merit. I have seen so many moments where the true quality of a product/project far usurps any market trends. Hell, we create new subgenres and market styles in entertainment and especially gaming all the time.
It’s part of why I’m not concerned with The Frontier. Estheria: A Realm Divided makes more sense in the IF market to focus and hone in on, simply because it’s fantasy and that generally sells more. But I’m not looking to just target the IF market, but to innovate within the means of IF with a title that is far more of a vast interactive text-based RPG than a gamelike IF.
While I can do that with fantasy, we don’t have many truly deep space-games out there, and if people can get story and tons of gameplay, there are plenty that can look past the text-based only medium presented with The Frontier to enjoy the experience.
That alone carves out something new from what exists, while ignoring the market trend that fantasy dominates in IF. It also ensures I don’t rob my own creative desires (that currently are hard targeted on The Frontier).
Writing and development should be about being unique, being creative, doing things you want to than merely following the dotted line.
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Hey, guys. I understand that people may feel strongly about the things I said, but I would just like to remind everyone how I started:
So I didn’t claim that what I am saying is facts and even acknowledged that I might be lacking in terms of industry experience.
My reason for replying was to share things that I personally found insightful. So if the discourse is to continue, I just want that bit of context to be put on the forefront of replies as well as how I constantly emphasized “having a discussion with oneself” because what works for me, might not work for others and vice-versa.
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For context, I’m writing a slice-of-life story with zero power fantasy, in a niche genre (boxing), where there is no overarching plot, and the romance content is so slow-burn that it’s like those museum exhibits that say “this column of treacle will take 15,000 years for a single drop to fall”. I just like having fun writing, you know?
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Unless your project somehow violates the official guidelines, you’re probably good. But if you’re worried about it, you can try emailing staff for clarification on specific issues.
Horror may be a niche within a niche here (to borrow the phrase) but there are plenty of people who mention wanting more. The Interest Check Thread may also help you gauge how readers feel about your project as well.
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Technically, you were quoting some rando on reddit.
They were the one talking shit, not you.
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its all about timing and judging the situation for yourself. Nokia kinda banged themselves tho
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It’s 3 AM, and I can’t sleep and am reading about ADHD instead. So apropos of nothing, here’s a question that’s been bothering me (that has nothing to do with my current reading habits, so don’t worry):
I have this story concept with two different timelines where the MC and their supervillain dad ([K]) were at odds, yes? And the other![K] crossed over to this![MC]'s timeline? (My placeholders are getting increasingly weird looking.) Well, it’s getting increasingly obvious that this![K] was abusive. The other![K] is not (they were, in fact, already different people by that suspected timeline split, although no one knows that yet), but that probably looks like a manipulation tactic to this![MC] and the player, so is there anything I can do to… I dunno, make the option of wanting to reconnect not look like an exercise of self-destruction?
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This might not be helpful, but I don’t think you need to worry too too much. It’s very common for people to love an abusive family member and wish that things could be different. And if you present that person with an opportunity to get that very thing, some people will take you up on that offer. It doesn’t need to seen logical, just understandable
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Tell you a story. I just started playing a game called Slay the Princess. The first trailer I saw for it (quite gory) warns pretty clearly that no matter how innocent she looks, the Princess can and will kill you. Part of the reason why I was still susceptible to her manipulations is because, well, every other character in the game is also manipulative. In fact, one of the thing the Narrator tells you before entering the basement is that the Princess is manipulative and you shouldn’t trust anything she says.
Which tells you this: one possible tactic for making players open up to a manipulative or untrustworthy character? Have them warned off that character by a second, even less trustworthy character.
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I mean, if you play fully the way the Narrator wants you to, it’s obvious that it’s the wrong way. Brilliant game. I still haven’t gotten all achievements though, there’s only so long I can go through the same loops before getting bored.
That said—
I mean, it’s the MC who has no reason to believe the Other K, since the only K they know was manipulative and in fact wanted to sacrifice the MC in a blood magic ritual, and for all intents and purposes it seems the timeline split when the MC killed This K and the Other K killed the Other MC. The Other K is, in fact, trustworthy (beyond the fact of being a supervillain that is… well, ex-supervillain, but it’s not like the MC has a reason to believe that). It’s a real mess.
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