Dating sims with more than one gender of LI?

Game Development
21

I will give my full thoughts in my second response, but in short it is a small step in the right direction. @Lizzy stated it right about Pixelberry’s game Choices. They keep telling the player this and thrusting “their” choices down our throats. Rather than showing the story and letting the player define their character. I’ll point out in Crown and Flame, the player’s choices have no direction in the story and it seems every fourth choice is Dom I love you, even if the player flirts solely with females with the princess. It also seems like it is just fanservice inclusion because of the trope two girls are hot, as Dom can plow the fields of any lady that crosses his path but heaven forbid if he had a gay romance option(s), falling into the 2 guys are gross trope. I will not even go into their newest book that is a foray into misogyny.

But I digress, as long as you write the NPCs and not the protagonist, I have no issues with the story or how many and type of LI’s there are, as long as I get my preferred hook-up I am happy.

I have seen your writing and I will buy that yuri smorgasbord on day one it hits the shelves, but I would have to pass on the yaio, or male mc only games. The reason being that there are way too many female protagonists that are strong leads in games, it is slowly getting better, but more can be done. I vote with my money. I give to Patreon, sometimes KS, and 99% to most female MC otome games with an option for a same-sex pairing. There are a few I will not support, like yuri=bad ending type of game that usually comes from Japanese translated VNs. (I swear if I see the “but you’re girl” trope one time…)

My side comment here to people who will not buy a game with the “token” gay romance; is that gaming companies are businesses that are capitalist in nature so if there is no profit in making or marketing that content. Guess what they cut it out, and now we’re stuck with hetero content.

2003 is when KoToR came out, having the first lesbian character Juhani that was romanceable by a female Revan (although it is more implied than spoken). It took till 2012 With ME3 for Bioware to have their first full on gay romance option. Bioware is known for their progressive and inclusive nature, it only took them 9 years to get to the point of offering multiple romance options for gay players.

Now just a few years later more and more companies are offering romances with same-sex pairings, slowly at first to test the waters and see if they can turn a profit, but if the profit goes away when a developer starts to make inclusive content…TL;DR Support people who offer the content you like, and ask for more!

3 Likes
22

There’s a difference between commercial, mainstream games and indie games. Indie developers have a lot more freedom to do as they please with their games. There’s no one telling them what they can and can’t include. If an indie game, particularly a dating sim in this case, chooses to have 9/10 romance options be female and 1/10 be male, I’ve absolutely no reason or obligation to toss my money into it. It was an active choice on the developer’s behalf, and I can respect that, but it’s just not my thing and thus not worth my money. For example: C14 Dating’s an otome game with a tacked on female romance option for players interested in F/F pairings, but that character’s route is significantly less fleshed out than the others. I’m not going to pay for crumbs, ya dig? Am I willing to support games that are more to my liking? Absolutely. I’ve already done so with Monstrous Lovers and Eldet.

Commercial games are a different story though. I’m aware of the risk these developers take in adding in same-sex content, and if the premise of the game is enough to draw me in, I’ll invest. I constantly keep an ear out for any news of games that let you play gay, but they’re far and few. The Technomancer was the last one as far as I’m aware of, and while it’s far from perfect, I have recommended it to others if only for the fact that you can actually play as gay (in space!) and it’s handled relatively well. It’s literally just the epilogue that grinds my gears. There’s nothing more annoying than being aware that all the other romance options get referred to as the player character’s girlfriend while my in-game boyfriend is just my “closest friend”. :unamused:

3 Likes
23

This is a quote from the author of that game;

“The GxG route here won’t be advertised or mentioned much, and it’s closer to romantic friendship. It’s a bonus route I wanted to do for fun (and it can’t be transferred to the yuri version due to story reasons.)”

Indie developers do have more creative freedom, but they have smaller capital to invest in so they have to make every penny count more than any AAA company will ever have to.

Now with the success of C-14; guess what is happening? A sequel, that is pure yuri.

I bought it because of the added on yuri content (a very romantic story behind the why of that), and because of the success of C-14 we will now get a full blown yuri game. Now if people felt the way you do, this would never have happened. Only through support can good stuff happen.

2 Likes
24

Well there is the route both Seven Kingdoms: The Princess Problem and Coming out on Top have gone in recent years and that is a good demo combined with a Kickstarter (or other crowdfunding) drive that can potentially give a newer and untested indie developer a halfway decent budget to work with.

2 Likes
25

Correct, and first time KS are a risk, but worth it at times(I do researching on the people behind the KS campaign now before I commit), but I take big issues about coming back to KS when you have a smash hit Looks at Obsidian.

26

From that same author:

“That said, as I explained also in my forums, I really don’t think I’m going to do anymore games with a single romance combo in future. No yaoi only, yuri only, otome only, etc. Simply because making a game it’s already a lot of effort, and people need to wait years, I want at least to try offering something for everyone.”

Which I find to be a lot more agreeable. Half ‘n’ half makes everyone happy. I know I’ve been keeping tabs on their upcoming game Love Bites for that very reason. Like I’ve said, I support games that offer me content that’s more than crumbs.

4 Likes
27

Keep in mind that C-14 is a different developer than WW, they just published it and helped out a bit. (Lol I think half the forums are from over there XD) So then you know that they are going full indie now too then, with the success of their KS with Camel Mocca, which will fit sleepykittens criteria now :wink: everything in time and with support. :slight_smile:

1 Like
28

And when I can, I try to offer some additional content later on. One reason Planet Stronghold: Colonial Defense had a bit of free DLC released (doubling the number of romances) is because I gave a very good rate on the writing.

If I can do something similar with Love Bites, I will try to do so, but there is no promise.

2 Likes
29

I think broader accommodation of more demographics, particularly if more groups such as gay men and women get more and more economically influential and dare I say mainstream will increasingly be the wave of the future, of course that future is not entirely here yet, outside of some isolated enclaves such as this wonderful site. :pensive:

2 Likes
30

For people who are straight or gay, would a mixed-gender dating sim be less enjoyable? Would you mind having fewer options that are your preferred gender?

31

Well, I mean, I’m bi so I’ve never really cared. But I imagine there are a lot of people who would feel that way, and I can see having to buy a whole game just for one or two girls out of five dudes would just feel… sort of disrespectful?

One out of three is fine, though. I mean… there’s only three.

edit: Now I’m thinking about it… Depends on the ratio? Like three girls, four boys would be no problem. Maybe more than a 1/2 2/3 ratio is the key.

3 Likes
32

As a gay guy, I don’t mind so long as I actually have choices available. If all I have available to choose from in a dating sim is a single character… well, that’s not much of a dating sim for me now, is it? :laughing: That being said… Yes, I probably would mind. Like @iris says, it might depend on the ratio, but I’m strongly against limiting folks of a certain orientation to a single route/character.

7 Likes
33

I would ask for an even spread but cheap characters to fill some quota are so annoying. If one of them is big and adorable I might let it slide.

1 Like
34

I don’t care as long as it does not feel like the power fantasy. For example in Guns of Infinity One romantic options that say they love you…with spoiling it you can never be too sure what game she playing and other one is could have feelings for you but she way to out of your league in game for marriage to be socially accessible. When lords whenever that will come we can go after are lover boys LO. One thing I love how about is game is he playing for long haul so romances are slow burn. Then society the MC is not the most progressive. We maybe able to change that…maybe.

35

To be fair, if it was a commercial game where romance was secondary (i.e. not a dating sim), then I’d probably be fine with only a token gay romance, if it was done well (or at least non-offensively). My problems with Fire Emblem Fates stem far more from the “offensively” part than from the “token” part.

Well, if there were enough male choices, and I could just completely ignore the female choices…

6 Likes
36

No, one of my favorite games is Black Closet and that doesn’t have any options in my preferred gender. All the options are girls, with one probably sweet friendship route (probably, because I never took out it so I can’t say how I feel.) I care more about the main character and the story…and the LIs having some racial/personality/physical/etc diversity, regardless of gender. There’ve been games I passed on (or bought and regretted) who were full of guys but bored me to sleep and I found the guys difficult to tell apart anyways. I like your writing so if you make the game all female LI’s, I’ll probably buy it. (As long as it doesn’t cost a bunch.)

2 Likes
37

I have been thinking about this, but if I play a game that is predominantly targeted at people that are interested in a specific gender but I am interested in another gender, then am I not the wrong target group for that game? I mean, I want more games with mixed LI but I also understand it if someone does not want to buy a game that just was not made for them (but then again, maybe people would play the games that they were actually the target group of if more such games existed…). I am just talking about dating sims here and not about games that also have a dating element but are actually another genre.

3 Likes
38

Pfffft romance is always the primary part of the game, saving the world/galaxy/whatever is just a way for me to impress girls :smile:

We just need to figure out how to split the game in half, you get all the boys in your half and I get all the girls in mine. It’s like our forced marriage agreement from before :wink:

4 Likes
39

That’s @Sashira’s main idea, I think. One game with just lady options and a sequel with just men. I’d be into both.

2 Likes
40

I feel similarly. I may play a game with one f/f relationship and multiple f/m relationships if it’s free, but it still kind of feels like tokenism to me, so there’s an immediate barrier-to-entry. If I have to pay for it? No. I’d like the game to either be focused on my orientation or at least provide an equal number of options. The more it speaks to me as a person, the more value it’ll have to me (and vice versa).

1 Like