Consolidated AI Thread: A Discussion For Everything AI

[Kingston1]

You’re comparing writing with AI to showing up to a singing competition with a pre-recorded track. Using AI in writing isn’t cheating; it’s called evolving.

You see, writing isn’t about how hard you sweat over a blank page. It’s about the final product—the story, the characters, the ideas that captivate readers. AI is just another tool, like spellcheck or a thesaurus, that smart writers use to refine their craft. It doesn’t replace the creative process; it enhances it.

And, this whole idea that effort alone is what makes something worthwhile? That’s commendable, but it’s also outdated. Effort is great, but so is efficiency. If AI can help someone tell a better story, why on earth should they shun it just to struggle more? Struggle doesn’t make art better; skill does. And guess what? It takes skill to use AI effectively, just like any other tool.

As for your “producer” analogy—cool, but irrelevant. Writing isn’t singing. It doesn’t matter what tools you use to create a story, what matters is the story itself. A writer with AI is still a writer, just one who knows how to use the best resources available to them. If you think relying on AI somehow diminishes a writer’s worth, maybe it’s time to acknowledge that the real issue here is your fear of being outpaced by those who’ve embraced modern tools.

But keep romanticizing struggle if it helps you cope bro👍

@Bacondoneright
Don’t feel the need to reply to this. I’m about to write the rebuttal for your statement right afterwords. I won’t include it here because this response has already gotten too long.

[LiliArch]

@Trista_JW

There are far too many people in one particular community that are using AI to create world maps-- and in some cases, town, dungeon, house and shop maps-- in the games they are “making.”

Mmmh. I still don’t see the point of using AI for that, when procedural generation is much cheaper (unless you count procedural generation as AI? It’s just hand-written randomized math, so I don’t).

[lliiraanna]

@Kingston1

A writer with AI is still a writer, just one who knows how to use the best resources available to them. If you think relying on AI somehow diminishes a writer’s worth, maybe it’s time to acknowledge that the real issue here is your fear of being outpaced by those who’ve embraced modern tools.

See, this is where we disagree. As outdated as you might think it is, I believe that in order to be considered a writer, one needs to actually write, which you don’t do if an AI generates text for you. And this is such a core disagreement I don’t think we’re going to convince each other of anything.
I know AI is most likely to stay. But I’m going to be cautiously optimistic and believe that it won’t fully replace human art. Just as synthetic voices, as good as they are now, didn’t displace real singers. And I believe that people who want to use AI can find a separate term for themselves - like the above “producer” - create their own spaces, find their own audiences - while being honest about using AI instead of passing it all off as purely human creation. But here you are in a community of people for many of whom the process of writing itself is important, for various reasons, and saying they’ll all fall behind is just you making a guess at the future - and I can easily make a different one. Only time will tell which prediction was “right”.

[apple]

@Kingston1

If AI can help someone tell a better story, why on earth should they shun it just to struggle more?

Because then it’s not your story. It’s the AI’s. If I tell my friend this cool idea for a story I had and then they use it as inspiration to write a novel, I am not the author of that work.

[Trista_JW]

@LiliArch

Mmmh. I still don’t see the point of using AI for that, when procedural generation is much cheaper (unless you count procedural generation as AI? It’s just hand-written randomized math, so I don’t).

I don’t either, but then again, procedural generation can only be used for maps like caves and dungeons. I’m not sure about other engines, but in the RPG Maker series, there’s no way to procedurally generate a town, exterior, or interior map.

The below is one of my own maps, which I made in the RPG Maker VX Ace Engine-- it’s a screenshot from the engine; the small squares are considered “Events” (animals, NPCs, transport points, weather effects, lighting, treasure, et cetera) the tiles (the non-character graphics) are ones that I’ve purchased (and are credited to in my credits text document.)

The point in posting this is: there are numerous artists who sell their resources for use in indie games (and many allow developers to edit their tiles!) Instead of making a map (which isn’t hard at all) they have been using AI to create maps, sprites (the characters) music, text and other aspects of their game, when resources are widely available and easy to obtain (there are many artists who make free resources-- all they ask for is credit! And I haven’t paid more than $10 for any single tileset I’ve been using-- most are between $2.99 and $9.50)

I don’t think procedural generation is AI; it definitely is not! If an indie dev uses an engine that allows more than dungeons to be made that way, then there’s no harm in using it! There are so many different ways a map could be made that isn’t AI, it isn’t funny.

[Kingston1]

It’s almost sad how you think that having “full creative control” means rejecting any tool that could actually improve your work.

Yes, ideas alone don’t make a novel, but they’re the seed from which everything grows. Without them, your “self-discipline” is just you staring at a blank page, hoping sheer willpower will somehow turn into something worth reading.

Now, you keep going on about how the act of writing is the art itself. But you seem to miss the point entirely—using AI isn’t skipping the process, it’s refining it. AI doesn’t write for you; it assists in bringing those ideas to life more efficiently. It’s not about cutting corners, it’s about working smarter, not harder.

And let’s talk about your romanticized struggle. Years to write a book? Sure, if you insist on doing everything the hard way. But don’t confuse inefficiency with artistry. The time and effort you’re so proud of are only admirable if they lead to something exceptional. If someone can produce a brilliant piece of work in a fraction of the time with AI, guess what? They’re still the more skilled writer.

So, while you cling to your outdated thinking of what makes a “real” writer, others are out there actually producing work that people want to read—using every tool at their disposal to do it. But hey, you keep working on that draft. Maybe in a few more years, you’ll have something worth sharing👌

[apple]

@Kingston1

AI doesn’t write for you

It literally does though? Like, if you go to ChatGPT and say “create a paragraph describing a verdant river valley, marred by a recent battle”, the AI has done the actual work of writing whatever it spits out.

@Kingston1

others are out there actually producing work that people want to read

Citation needed.

@Kingston1

So, while you cling to your outdated thinking of what makes a “real” writer, others are out there actually producing work that people want to read—using every tool at their disposal to do it. But hey, you keep working on that draft. Maybe in a few more years, you’ll have something worth sharing👌

Also not to speak for someone else but @Bacondoneright literally is a published author with a second game about to come out so like, check yourself lmao.

[LiliArch]

Aah, okay, that clarifies that! I’ve been looking into standalone city map generators (because I definitely am not interested in designing a megacity by hand), it didn’t occur to me you were being engine-specific.

[Starwish_Armedwithwi]

@apple

It literally does though? Like, if you go to ChatGPT and say “create a paragraph describing a verdant river valley, marred by a recent battle”, the AI has done the actual work of writing whatever it spits out.

I mean of course you’ll have edit the result with the actual context of the battle in your story, sure AI does the actual work but it’s still your idea in the context of your story.

[erinrae26381]

@Starwish_Armedwithwi

I mean of course you’ll have edit the result with the actual context of the battle in your story, sure AI does the actual work but it’s still your idea in the context of your story.

@Kingston1

AI isn’t “cheating”—it’s just a tool, like a calculator for math or a camera for photography. If you’re still clinging to the idea that real work only counts if it’s done the old-fashioned way, then perhaps you should write your next novel by candlelight, with a quill.

If you never do the work, how can you possibly improve as a writer?

[apple]

@Kingston1

You really think tapping away at a keyboard is the only way to “actually produce” something worth reading?

I do think that “writing” definitionally requires placing words in an order dictated by the writer, yes. If you are managing and pruning the outputs of an AI you aren’t a writer, you are, at best, an editor.

@Kingston1

But hey, if you want to keep slogging through like it’s the 19th century, be my guest.

Personally I enjoy the act of writing and creation as a process in it’s own right, but I guess some of us are built different.

@Kingston1

The rest of us will be busy creating content that actually resonates with today’s audience.

What have you written? I’m curious as to your bibliography, I’d love to see what you’ve come up with using your superior method.

[Trista_JW]

I’m glad to hear it! Haha, I was being dense as hell, too (It’s midnight here right now, I’ll be heading to bed in like half an hour) so I didn’t think to specify the engine. I don’t blame you at all, designing a megacity by hand sounds like it would seriously be a pain in the ass! Good luck finding a decent map generator, that would definitely make things much easier!

[LiliArch]

@Kingston1

Do you think photographers don’t improve because they use cameras instead of painting landscapes by hand?

…how on Earth would that improve photography? That’d be like saying you need to swim to get better at driving.

[Bacondoneright]

@Kingston1

But hey, you keep working on that draft. Maybe in a few more years, you’ll have something worth sharing👌

I’ve literally published 2 novels with Hosted games and made money for it, bro, calm down .
Edit: To clarify, I’ve published one, and submitted the other

@Kingston1

Years to write a book?

Correct. It took me 3 years to write ITFO, 3 years to write Whiskey-Four, both of which would be 1600+ pages if they were a straight novel. I’ve also finished 3 novel manuscripts while working on these other projects, the longest of which took me 3 months.

@Kingston1

Without them, your “self-discipline” is just you staring at a blank page, hoping sheer willpower will somehow turn into something worth reading.

It’s 99% perspiration, 1% inspiration.

@Kingston1

The time and effort you’re so proud of are only admirable if they lead to something exceptional

What I find interesting about prose is how the emotions of the author are so often baked into very language of a work. When I started ITFO, i was in a very bitter, dark place (not saying it for sympathy, I don’t care, I’m just stating the truth). The very prose of ITFO reflects this. There are passages where I can still feel the resentment and anger through sentence length and word choice and rhythm.

Your anger is extremely evident through your own comments. Please, I’d recommend that you calm down and maybe… pause? Come back to these debates later? You’re coming off as extremely hostile.

@Kingston1

So, while you cling to your outdated thinking of what makes a “real” writer, others are out there actually producing work that people want to read

We ultimately don’t know if AI writing is “the future”. We don’t. There’s a lot of miracle technology toted nowadays. Are you absolutely certain that this won’t end up like crypto currency, held as “the future that everyone else is just too much a luddite to accept!” that then crashes and burns early?

@Kingston1

it assists in bringing those ideas to life more efficiently.

You’re confusing storytelling with writing.

Storytelling is fundamental to humanity. Everyone tells stories. We’ve been telling stories since the dawn of man, damn it. It started as oral tradition, turned into writing. It’s evolved into movies, video games, physical art, etc. Having ideas and stories makes you a story-teller. Writing makes you a writer.

If you wanna tell stories, find a medium that you enjoy! If writing causes you suffering and you see it as just starting at a blank canvas, stressed and suffering, it just might not be for you.

@Kingston1

then perhaps you should write your next novel by candlelight, with a quill.

This misses the point of the general criticism against AI. Never before has there been a technology that does the work for you. Whether you use pencil and paper, book and quil, laptop, or a damn type-writer, it is still the author placing each individual word. AI generates text for you. There’s a distinct difference. You can think it’s not a big deal, that’s fine. But it’s different than other technological advancements.

@Kingston1

The rest of us will be busy creating content that actually resonates with today’s audience.

@Kingston1

But sure, if you’d rather toil away to prove a point, enjoy your quill and parchment.

Why do you feel the need to end every one of your comments with a “zinger?” It just makes the discourse overly hostile and makes you seem extremely childish. Every one of your comments end this way, and it’s… really bizarre.

Again… please calm down. I’m going to sleep, so I won’t be replying in this thread. I hope everything stays civil.

[lliiraanna]

I said what I wanted to, but I want to ask a question: are we machines, for everything we do to be measured in nothing but efficiency? Is someone “better” just because they can produce more content faster, and is finished content all that matters at the end of the day? Is there no meaning to the journey itself?

@apple Yeah, I’ve expressed a similar view earlier on:

@lliiraanna

I think it goes back to the fact that many of these people don’t, in fact, enjoy the process of writing itself. To them, writing is just the means to an end, a hurdle to overcome on the path to the goal of putting out finished content. They want the content. Not to go through the process of writing it.

And it’s such a major difference in view of the entire process that we might as well be speaking different languages, sadly rendering much of the discussions around it pointless.

@Ramidel

In my personal opinion, we are machines, we just happen to be flesh and blood.

Fair enough But…

@Ramidel

I also don’t discount the fact that it can have value in improving the person or their abilities.

That’s what I was getting at, too. And isn’t that already an inherent value?

@Ramidel

To circle back to AI, I personally believe that someone who can wrangle an AI’s settings and then edit the resulting product into an interesting story has created something of value.

I apologize, I’m going to quote myself again:

@lliiraanna

And I believe that people who want to use AI can find a separate term for themselves - like the above “producer” - create their own spaces, find their own audiences - while being honest about using AI instead of passing it all off as purely human creation.

I think there might be a place for AI content, but I won’t call working with AI “writing”. It’s editing, producing, or whatever, and people engaging in it need to be honest about it, and also respect those who choose not to use AI instead of treating them as someone backwards. That’s literally it.

@LiliArch

Excuse me, multilingual here. Different languages are a speedbump, not a roadblock.

是吗? Es macht mich glücklich wenn Leute vershiedene Sprachen benutzen können. Но вот немецкий я как-то подзабыла…

[apple]

Honestly this is the real reason AI evangelists will never be “artists” in a real sense, be it in prose or image generation or whatever. The whole thought process requires the view that art, that creation as a process, is a frustrating inefficiency in the way of the end goal of having a product to consume. Creating isn’t something to be celebrated, it’s a problem to be solved.

@Ramidel

I don’t have much of a romantic attitude for the journey having some kind of inherent value, though I also don’t discount the fact that it can have value in improving the person or their abilities.

TBH to me the most important issue is that an AI’s words aren’t the authors own. Writing isn’t just about a mechanically descriptive vision of a scene, it’s about how an author chooses to capture it. Choices in prose, in the language and structure a given author uses, are what set works apart. If you tell an AI to spit out a scene and then just tweak the details, no choices were made. No prose was created by you, you’ve just played madlibs with an amalgam of the work of other authors.

[Ramidel]

In my personal opinion, we are machines, we just happen to be flesh and blood. I don’t have much of a romantic attitude for the journey having some kind of inherent value, though I also don’t discount the fact that it can have value in improving the person or their abilities.

@lliiraanna

That’s what I was getting at, too. And isn’t that already an inherent value?

Mmm. It’s a value, but one can develop skills through other means than “it’s the journey that counts.”

To circle back to AI, I personally believe that someone who can wrangle an AI’s settings and then edit the resulting product into an interesting story has created something of value. I don’t agree with @apple that this is being “not an artist, because real artists celebrate the process of creation.” While there are legitimate concerns with the use of AI (primarily regarding questions of IP rights), I fundamentally consider it a tool.like any other.

[ViIsBae]

@Kingston1

But hey, you keep working on that draft. Maybe in a few more years, you’ll have something worth sharing👌

Saying this not only to someone who has published a work and has another two on the way, but when that person’s work is known as one of the most well received and best games in recent history of the company, is absolutely wild.

If you’re gonna use ad hominem attacks, might wanna at least know who you’re targeting.

[Ramidel]

Please don’t reply to Kingston1 further, he’s no longer part of this conversation. Thanks all.

[LiliArch]

@Ramidel

Mmm. It’s a value, but one can develop skills through other means than “it’s the journey that counts.”

I personally see its value in the joy I gain, not the skill I may or may not gain, but that of course doesn’t apply to everyone.

@lliiraanna

we might as well be speaking different languages

Excuse me, multilingual here. Different languages are a speedbump, not a roadblock.

@lliiraanna

I think there might be a place for AI content, but I won’t call working with AI “writing”.

I wouldn’t mind if someone wanted to call themself “AI writer”.