It can be coded by hand too, but the decision tree is effectively a reasonably pre-weighted neural net, that already spent multiple iterations “learning” what works and what doesn’t. The ones which can adapt further would just have this process still enabled and ongoing in the shipped game, vs. being locked down. Keeping it locked down has its advantages – it ensures the game performs in know way e.g. instead of developing some quirks that the player could then complain about.
Hmm… i wouldn’t see it like that, no. A lot of performed tasks is much simpler and doesn’t require any “learning” from the relevant structures/code that carries them out. If you wanted to really stretch it you could maybe compare them to single-level of a neural net, but then… that’s not much of a net, really.
edit: to clarify, some decision trees can be compared to neural nets, if not outright implemented as one, but this doesn’t extend to all decision trees.
But isn’t everything a computer does a neural network by that definition? (I mean, it’s one thing if it’s actually pre-trained, but if I made a Hello World that prints the text in different color based on what weekday it is, it absolutely is a decision tree but I have hard time seeing where the neural network comes in.)
Ah, okay. That was what confused me in your original phrasing.
This statement is just not factual at all. It’s honestly a completely bias take on the topic and I advise you to reconsider your opinion on the matter.
For example, with my sentence above⬆️ there probably was a numerous amount of ways I could have phrased it, or an unlimited amount of synonyms I could of used in replacement of for better words.
Not everyone has the same skills with writing, it comes easier to some and not to others. The most I’ve ever written that holds barely a semblance of professionalism is probably an essay I wrote in like the 11th grade.
Dropping a game that you enjoyed or took interest in because of an AI generated map is just dumb to me. I don’t know what AI did to you but it can’t be that serious.
And to further claim that they didn’t actually make anything is foolish as well. If I wrote the blueprint for the story but just asked the AI to polish it because the words don’t come to me or I lack the skills doesn’t discredit the actual time and effort I put into making the story just because AI give me some subtitute words or a few restructured sentences here and there.
And what about punctuation? If that’s the only aspect that AI help me improve in my story does that immediately make it “garbage” as well?
yes. I have seen personally a person complain to a local bike race organization why being kick off for using drug and hormonal treatment
“I only use it to enhance and maximize my body and training. I spent many hours working out and riding. Those don’t count?”
No. if you cheat and use other work to enhance your writing and try to cheat and making you look better than you really are you don’t deserve being published. More when rules are clear that is not allowed.
If a person is not able to create names by themselves that person can be many many things but is clearly not a writer and should not pretend is one.
I am really bad skill wise. But what you see is what I am . I can go head high that I give my best
Spellcheck doesn’t create names and desogn create entire paragraphs last time I checked.
No. Spellcheck only check grammar comparing it with a dictionary Reason why if you invent a word or using words from a foreign language is marked as a incorrect word. It doesn’t change anything by their own doesn’t create anything from a prompt.
It is like comparing taking an Acuarious when thirsty with taking cocaine due both make you feel different from previous.
For the same reason rolling from random tables is bad! It’s imitating human ingenuity with randomness, clearly.
The moral is that letting machines do anything a human could be doing is immoral. That was the lesson from the legend of John Henry, right? That’s why none of these people use calculators. They compute every equation with their own brains. They never borrow terms from other works like Elves either.
how is this cheating when it’s not illegal? at worst other people can sell your work too.
at the end of the day, writing and drawing is a trade that generate assets, there’s no way to cheat when it’s never a fair competition like the Olympics, anything that’s not illegal is on the table like any other business.
I know people will say that art is not a business, and I’m sure that’s case for some, but for the majority cases it sure looks like one.
If you consider other opinions as a fact the problem is not mine. I only gave my view and opinion on the matter. Last time I check I didn’t say I possess the eternal true and the
holy grail.
I’d expect most of us have a name in mind for our main characters from the get go (not always, but usually). But I’ve definitely used the generic fantasy name generators to cycle through a bunch of names and cobble something together for smaller characters.
If I’m doing some serious worldbuilding, coming up with placenames, languages, misc cultural stuff and the like, I tend to handle all that myself.
On the other side of the coin though, how can the company address this? sure this time the AI content might be rampant and the writer admitted, but what happens when the writer insist the human written, or only partially AI assisted? do we have a guideline on how much and what type of AI is banned? who makes the decision? a closed door approach doesn’t mean things are all good now.
I get that, I was more thinking about random minor NPCs and real-world names. (Or rolling random letter combinations when you’re making a full lexicon for a conlang, for that matter.)
Oh, perhaps I should have been clearer - I don’t think this is a problem? I said that I did this myself, I just added (conversationally) that I didn’t do it for anything else. I was agreeing with you.
Currently, we do have a company stated guideline here. It’s also mentioned here in the recent thread about the withdrawn game.
Whether that’s the “right” thing, or the thing the company will stick with, that’s the only definitive thing that I know of to answer your question. I also know staff encourages writers to reach out to them directly via email with questions.
As for how they will handle detecting it, discerning AI content from human content, who or how they are making those choices… I can’t pretend to know. The reason I personally think it is better to privately discuss any concerns about a writer’s work is because, as I’ve said here and elsewhere, I think the accusation is too damaging and shouldn’t be made publicly until the company has taken a stance on the particular case. Public opinion is rarely the right way to tackle the issue of a person’s guilt and even less often the right way to tackle the issue of their redemption. But I’m not staff so my opinion isn’t really relevant, just an opinion.
Please don’t do this. Mara has made it clear that she doesn’t want to be involved right now and you can share your opinion without directly going at her or dismissing her feelings. I’m not not trying to come at you or deny you the right to share here, but let’s not antagonize each other. We can all say what we want to say without being so harsh.
[quote=“Starwish_Armedwithwi, post:446, topic:128685, full:true”]
No Grammerly? Seriously?[/quote]
I never recall saying I have anything against spell-checkers (which everyone knows, can correct grammar, as well.) That is not having AI generate text or images. However, I have heard (I cannot verify whether it’s true or not, since I do not use Grammarly; I’m not an author, so I have no reason to bother with something like it, when there is nothing wrong with the standard spell checker that’s been built into most word processing programs) that it can also be used to generate writing, just like every other AI chatbot out there-- and it is the latter that I have problems with.
I don’t know if people are using it to generate things for tabletop games, but what I mean by maps is people who are using it to generate the maps they’re using in traditional indie computer games.
There are far too many people in one particular community that are using AI to create world maps-- and in some cases, town, dungeon, house and shop maps-- in the games they are “making.” If people are using it to generate maps for their tabletop games, that’s a damn shame and I do not approve of it, but I haven’t played a tabletop game in about ten years now (there are no groups or people interested in them in the town I live in, which is very unfortunate, but when you live in a tiny country town, shit like that happens.)
The “AI” used to control an enemy’s movements or attack patterns is completely different than the “AI” that I am talking about here-- it isn’t text or art that a random person is trying to pass off as their own. In the games that I have played and like a lot (and the one that I am making myself) enemy activity was (and is) controlled by what an actual person has written and programmed. I cannot tell you how a big commercial company does it, but I come up with their stats and paramaters myself (its rate of attack, evasion, hit rate, the skills it uses (which I define via variables formulas), the order it uses its attacks in (without showing a string of formulas that might look like complete nonsense, it would be like: attack physically until the fourth turn, use X fire spell on the fifth turn, defend, try to escape, use X spell when below 50% HP) et cetra. In a way, you are right, though conditional branches and variables can be used to make the attack pattern seem more “randomized.”
At the risk of sounding like an impoverished bitch, I cannot say the same for any game made to be played on an X-Box or newer; I’ve never owned anything newer than a PS2, because I could never (and still cannot) justify spending what could be bill or grocery money on a console. (My computer is too old to run an emulator for any newer consoles; my only computer is a Dell OptiPlex 7740 AIO.) I’ve heard and read about games that have enemies that “adapt to player strategies.” Which is something I do not like the sound of, as it sounds like something you would find only in FPS or strategy games (not a fan of either genre.) I can’t say anything about how it’s done.
I couldn’t possibly care less, I am just as entitled to my opinion as everyone else is and nothing anyone can say will sway it. (I do not mean that as disrespectfully as it might look-- It’s my opinion, I despise AI, that will not change and I get it that some people seem to adore it, for whatever reason. I’m not asking them to change their opinions, just stating why I disagree )
That’s why there are human-run writing workshops, free and paid classes led by people (online and offline) as well as college classes devoted to creative writing.
Yes, as far as I care, it does discredit you. Rather than taking the time to learn how to improve your own works (Spelling and grammar checkers are fine and have been around just as long as any word processing document has) you instead fed some random keywords into a program that “re-writes” what you’ve done (which was likely passable on its own) and churns out completely changed, generated garbage that isn’t even yours-- it stole from numerous uncited sources online, haphazardly slapped bits and pieces together and doesn’t even resemble the (probably passable) original piece of legitimate writing you had to begin with.
Writing your story is art. To me, using AI to alter it can be compared to having an art forger “re-paint” the Rembrandt you discovered in some relative’s house, just because you didn’t like the colors that were used.
Yes, as that is one claim that would be completely unbelievable, under any circumstances. Spelling and grammar checkers are built into any word processing document-- and they fix punctuation as well. (Read above about my stance on spelling and grammar checkers.)
Random name generators, rolling from tables (including random loot tables) should be perfectly acceptable, as far as I know? I’m not sure why someone claimed they weren’t (or what was said about them, I could not find that post) but I thought that was kind of interesting and random to read.
Disclaimer: That way everyone knows: Please do not worry about offending me with your opinions; not one of you has pissed me off or said anything I take exception to, at all.
I look at this thread as being an interesting place to debate, whether facts, “facts,” opinions, or all three are being discussed. Also please note that I am not trying to piss anyone off or offend them with any of my past, present, or future responses-- they’re just my opinions and if they bother anyone, please let me know, that way I can go take a flying fuck at a rolling donut (That statement about rolling donuts is a joke. Seriously, please let me know if I upset or offend you-- if I do, I won’t bring whatever it is back up.)
