Yeah. But I’m kinda thinking “not well written” is the major problem with Sins. (And personally I don’t like that author’s writing on any games.) As opposed to Out for Blood’s problem being “this is pretending to be VtM but isn’t.”
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Eh, I do feel it has some stellar writing…in the first half. After that, it falls apart as the compelling stuff they set up tries to bear fruit-and the harvest isn’t too grand.
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I don’t know about what I want in the future, but I know what I don’t want. Whatever happened after chapter eight in Sins of the Sire, I never want to see that ever again, story went from a solid eight out of ten to strong four out of ten for me. Parliament of Knives is the best one so far though, it doesn’t over complicate anything and alone is a win my book.
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I’ve only finished Night Road and Parliament of Knives. Both were very decent at introducing VTM to people who may not have played Bloodlines before or have heard of the franchise.
And even if you played at different spectrums of the vampire totem pole (a courier for Night Road and a vamp elite in Knives), the stakes were still high for both games. Characters avoided tropes for the most part but some were underdeveloped (Jordan comes to mind). The endings felt a bit rushed, but I can forgive that thanks to the sheer replayability they both offer.
As for Out for Blood… I didn’t even finish the demo. I just didn’t see the appeal in playing as a human in a world with vampire-centric lore like VTM. If only the characters were more appealing, I would have continued playing, but none of them really stood out in the demo.
Sins… well, I’ve heard enough of that.
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Honestly, I was going to comment but there is very little point. I agree with basically everything PotatoeChisps said.
Night Road’s strongest point is its customization. “Do you want to play a Ravnos that knows Obtenebration and Thaumaturgy? Go for it, have fun.” The characters are also fun and memorable.
However, it lacks dialogue options in that there’s barely any point in reading what our character is saying or doing. Just check your stats and roll against your strongest one. It also falls a bit into the trap of “Vampires with Katanas and trenchcoats.” However, it’s still a ton of fun.
Parliament of Knives is, honestly, close to perfect, I’d say. Sure, you have less customization options but it FEELS like a game of Vampire: The Masquerade. The intrigue, the backstabbing, the need to consider every word you speak.
Chef’s Kiss Almost perfect. Now just give us either Lucca or Alisha to romance and allow us to rescue the Prince without betraying Corliss or romancing Jordan and it’ll be perfect.
Out for Blood feels…unfocused. Should we be focusing on leading our group of hunters? On improving grandpa’s shop? On doing everything for these thin bloods who seem to be the biggest threat around? On becoming a vampire? On becoming a better hunter?
It suffers from trying to do too much at once, in my opinion, and even the size of the game doesn’t help it. It needed to be focused on either the living or unliving side of it.
Honestly, it feels that it could have been a really, really fun Hunter: The Reckoning game but calling it Vampire: The Masquerade added a whole secondary set of options and obligations that did it no favors.
Sins of the Sires is
…well, a mess. Is it a Mystery story? Well, not really. I was interested in this supposedly ancient vampire who had just awakened but then there’s only a couple of scenes dealing with it and we don’t do anything that could be called investigative work.
So is it a Political Intrigue? Well, in my game, the Ventrue Elder was hoping that by killing this one neonate, God would strike down the Prince or something so, you tell me.
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Out for Blood feels…unfocused. Should we be focusing on leading our group of hunters? On improving grandpa’s shop? On doing everything for these thin bloods who seem to be the biggest threat around? On becoming a vampire? On becoming a better hunter?
I tried to do all of that to make informed decisions, but I think that was the wrong approach. I think the author expects you to pick one and stick with it, which is a shame. I think if chapter 9 let you explore more and chapter 11 had more possible approaches to the situation it would have been a lot better.
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I really think these games would benefit from a character creation screen where you just click away. Gender selection felt awkward in all games (the mirror scene in NR is a little hacky, the scene with the mortals in PoK I found confusing - who the fuck are these mortals, are they mercenaries or a random homeless couple taking shelter nearby or what, the policewoman in OFB was actually the best way to handle it in my opinion).
Here, you have a flashback to your mortal life among people who might realistically ask that - a perfect opportunity. Instead, a vampire you nearly came to blows with wants to make extra sure what your pronouns are. It would have been the low point of the game had it gotten better at any point.
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What is it that you like about Vampire: The Masquerade?
Do you want to be the member of the elite, staring out of a skyscrapper window, pondering how best to outwit 20 other vampires, all with schemes of their own? Then play “Parliament of Knives”, you’re going to love it.
Or do you prefer immortality to be about freedom? Travelling from town to town, unnacountable to no one but yourself, doing odd jobs to whoever pays the most and screws you over less?
Then play “Night Road”, you’ll love it.
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As I haven’t played even the demo of Sins of the Sires, I cannot and will not comment on it.
What I also can’t/won’t comment on is how ‘VTM’ the games are in atmosphere as I have little knowledge of the setting. That’s best left to others with more experience with the world.
Also, the skill systems. I cheese my way through IF games, so I’ll leave judging and comparing the skill systems to other people who are more interested in that.
What I look at when playing an IF game are the writing style, the characters and character interactions, the plot, and at times the pacing. All very subjective, one person’s likes can be another person’s dislikes.
Now here goes.
In my personal ranking, I liked Parliament of Knives the best. Then Night Road, and far down the list somewhere comes Out for Blood.
I played them back to back in order of their release, Night Road – Out for Blood – Parliament of Knives.
The short summary is that Night Road was okay but went on for forever, Out for Blood has atrocious pacing, Parliament of Knives was the light at the end of the tunnel and I had the most fun with it.
Under the cuts some more details. Beware that the Out for Blood section is a lengthy rant, I just have the most to say when something irks me.
Night Road
I vividly remember how I was playing Night Road and at some point realised in agony how I’m only half-way through the game and have three more of those side missions to go. It felt like a never-ending story that just kept dragging on.
It’s only in hindsight and after I started to play Out for Blood that I could appreciate the atmosphere and concept of the Courier.
I felt frustrated at how a good amount of these side missions could actually use some more time to breathe on their own, but then the game as a whole would just become longer and longer. It also felt like the outcomes of the side missions didn’t really matter. No matter how often you say to Julian that “sorry bro, I finished this according to the Camarilla’s wishes”, he basically just shrugs and says “no worries, I got another five hospitals in my grasp. All good.” So why did I do this, then? What was the point?
Also that side-side mission where you go off the tracks and have to deliver something to a plane and then all shit breaks loose as the Inquisition and Gangrel or whoever also join in and it was just a giant mess and felt like a fever dream. It left me confused about where this action movie sequence suddenly came from.
Character wise, I felt disappointed for the most part of the game. The Courier for me ended up being too much of a blank page, I didn’t really feel them as I was playing. I was also disappointed about how I could – on the mission – recruit Vani as a really useful ally and helper, but the second I chose Raúl as my ghoul she vanishes into thin air to never be heard off again.
I don’t know if it’s an issue with the ghoul ‘romances’ for Elena and Vani as well, but with Raúl, I ran into the problem that I had filled up my allowed meetings for him before reaching the intimate meeting in the second half. The game would just tell me he was out and not available right now. So I had to go into my save and reset the variable and counter just so I could get that scene. I don’t really understand why you would limit the number of times I can meet up with my ghoul.
Also, Lettow. I ended up quite liking Lettow but mostly after you actually got to know him in the second half. Sadly, you have to decide you are into a character basically on first meeting, and Lettow only really shone many hours later in the story. It was too hasty, for me, having to decide on something like that so soon after just being introduced to my boss.
Character interactions in general felt somewhat lacking for me, but it also wasn’t the worst I’ve seen. The strengths of the game lie in the general Courier atmosphere and the mechanics and clan uniqueness.
Out for Blood – this rant is long
This will be a bit, there is a lot to unpack.
The immediate opening of the game had some potential for me. I am easily spooked and scared, so the slightly ominous vibe at the start of the game made me feel a bit uneasy (in a good way, it fits a story where a mere human is set up against a VTM vampire). But whatever atmosphere there was, it quickly disperses and what followed just frustrated me a lot.
The pacing, player agency, the other characters, I have a lot to say.
The pacing in particular frustrated me so much that after I was done with the game, I went through the files again to summarise the events of the story per chapter, to show to some friends how much of a “How to become a Vampire Hunter in just 7 days” kind of story this is, which in the VTM setting is ridiculous and would most likely end with the human’s gruesome death.
If you can point out to me that the plot in fact did take place over more days than just a week, great! Then I have to wonder however why I didn’t get more choices to do things. But before I get to that, back to the pacing.
I do not understand how someone could come to a town to sort their late grandfather’s things, still unsure whether they will keep the store or not, and then over the span of just two days drop their entire previous life and just reopen the store after one day of inventory, advertisement and repair. Who does that?! Especially assuming this person most likely has little to no previous experience on how to run a store and keep it afloat. One day of advertisement will most likely not cut it, one day of getting yourself familiar with the inventory and the register and the finance books are most likely not going to be enough either.
Considering how useless the Brigade members are – aside of MC who can somehow manifest holy / occult powers against vampires if you choose those skills – it is insane to me that they think the big showdown has to happen on this town festival. To me, it read like that festival took place just after six or seven in-game days. The brigade forms on day 3 of the game (chapter 6 of 12), so there’s three to four days of ‘research’ with you doing everything that might actually be useful. Thanks for nothing, Marcus, Mikayla, just leaving me to explore the vampire manor all alone.
Where Night Road took its time and takes place across a couple of weeks, Out for Blood decided it had to wrap itself up in a week and let all sorts of events happen at the same time. I am aware that this actually is the case for plenty of IF games, they take place over a short time frame. It usually doesn’t bother me or it is not really noticeable. In Out for Blood, it was noticeable and made no sense. This game could have used time to breathe, desperately so.
I don’t understand why everything had to happen this quickly. There was no time to explore, to hang out with people. This leads in parts to my problem with the player agency in the game.
There is one (1) big choice hub in I think chapter 9 where you are allowed to pick from a variety of options to investigate various things and people. One. Before that, there are at least three moments where MC decides to go somewhere and just leaves. No choices there.
First coming to my mind is when MC either just closes the shop or has Salem watch it on their first day of opening and heads out to visit Adam. Why are we visiting Adam? Because MC wanted to. They didn’t inform us prior, they out of nowhere just decide “whelp, let’s go out and meet Adam. Who needs to watch a store with almost no marketing anyways.”
Then when MC suddenly decides to head out, again, to bring back Lacey’s phone. Yes, I know that we will bring back the phone at some point, but I do not appreciate that MC just decides to do it whenever. Again, they leave in opening hours and now Lam watches the store (Lam with his work ethic honestly deserved better, he for some reason only got a $6 payment on my playthrough).
And when MC just goes and decides they should check Doctor Lobo out now because they are curious about her, again, they just head out and do it.
This annoyed me to no end. I know that plot often has to be pushed into a certain direction, but this game just too often in a short amount of time decided for me what was next on the to-do list.
Why couldn’t I properly hang out with the others of the Brigade? Why was there no real opportunity to get to know the thin-bloods on more neutral grounds? There was this bar that was mentioned all the time. Jace works there, Kyra likely hunts there or just has fun, the human characters apparently hang out there sometimes too. Why was it only ever teased but we couldn’t actually go there? Meet up with Jace while he is working, get acquainted with Kyra there. It feels like a big missed opportunity.
Jace, for me, was a whole lot of missed opportunities and also raised eyebrows. When I decided to rent out a room to him, I expected to have at least one run in with him, some small talk, something. But instead, he is out of the house before you are really up, there is not a single written out conversation with him there. Only if your human RO spent the night with you, you will actually notice he is even there cause you exchange like three sentences. If there is no human RO, he’s just gone. The conversation where you hook up with Jace isn’t even written out but somehow you suddenly feel attracted to one another.
A raised eyebrow moment was when I read the highly optional other scene he makes a longer appearance – when you get visited by the McCrae brothers and he helps you fend them off. If your stats are right, you can outright ask him “Hey, are you a vampire?” He laughs it off, then you “suddenly feel winded, and your thoughts are scattered. How could you have been so wrong?” Someone tell me why there is a willpower check basically every time Chastain uses her mind powers on you, but the thin-blood just easily manages to do it without the need of a willpower check? Here I thought thin-bloods cannot skill a discipline even remotely as high as a full-fledged vampire. So why can he just scatter your thoughts like that?
The thin-bloods are their own problem, really. Considering how they will defend Perry and let him off the hook despite KNOWING he attacked you not once, but twice, tried to kill you, has killed another human in town. He’s a loose cannon and it is obvious he would do it again. Allowing him to run free does not raise any sympathy points with the group. Jace even just lets him leave if you call Jace for help when Perry attacks you, like, what?? At least give me the option to try and persuade Jace into a different outcome.
And I never really understood everyone’s obsession with the MC just because of who their grandfather was. Or why Chastain had such an issue with an old man running a shop. I didn’t really understand why MC somehow ended up in the centre position of potentially liberating the town of vampires until the next vampires move in.
In summary, I didn’t like Out for Blood. That it was written in an easy-to-read way (from what I remember) didn’t save the plot, pacing, rail-roading, lack of character hangouts, and the thought alone that you want to attack a vampire just a few days after learning they exist.
Parliament of Knives
The balm for my soul. The saving grace of these books.
I actually didn’t expect to like PoK as much as I ended up doing. I was aware that the author also wrote the Werewolves games, and I am actually not a fan of them. The first book was a slog for me to read, I didn’t finish the sequel. So I figured I might just not like the author’s writing style. It has happened before that I realised I just couldn’t enjoy an IF author’s writing style even though others loved it to bits. That’s fair, that happens. You just part ways with this author’s stories.
But, it turns out, I just couldn’t get into the Werewolves setting, as I thoroughly enjoyed reading PoK.
To be honest, Qui probably was a big factor of this enjoyment. Jordan was a great friend, too, but Qui hit the spot.
I played PoK directly after Out for Blood. And suddenly, there were actual choices again. It felt liberating, and I was happy and thrilled about the choices and that there are different scenes according to your chosen ally.
I think the pacing was rather quick too, but it didn’t bother me in this story. Everyone was highly capable and skilled, their actions seemed to make sense for the most part.
I enjoyed the choices, the banter, the characters, the Camarilla politics (I actually don’t like Camarilla politics, yet it was a joy to read and you wouldn’t expect a game called Parliament of Knives to be without political intrigue).
I was also positively surprised when I did find the Prince. He is a character you don’t meet for most of the game, if you meet him at all. Yet you hear about him everywhere you go. And with characters like his, of which you get picture painted by word of mouth without encountering them yourself, it can be a struggle to portray them in a way that they actually live up to the part.
Describing someone to be X is easy. Actually writing them as being that is a different matter.
And I think it worked out amazingly.
Prince Arundel has this sheer presence of power and domination, the logical and rational thinking of a monster detached of humanity, conducting awful experiments to prove a point and heal themselves of a perceived illness. His meticulous planning was awe-inducing and terrifying. He really did feel like a Prince, someone comfortable and natural in a position of absolute power.
Quite the contrast to Lettow in Night Road, honestly. He felt more easy going and laissez-faire in comparison, but also in the end found himself at ease with the calling and departed to his next destination where Arundel is trying to root himself in place.
Parliament of Knives had the story and characters that the other two games lacked for the most part. It was just the most enjoyable out of them for me. It’s also the only one of the three that I would wish to get a sequel off, for more time in Ottawa, for more adventures with Qui and Jordan.
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…Were these games supposed to be based on Bloodlines? That would explain some inconsistencies. The original Bloodlines isn’t even made by the same people, and it’s a single player ARPG. Absolutely nothing like VtM.
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Bloodlines works as a pretty decent opener to VTM and WOD. It shows you things such as the politics, system and culture of vampire society. People who played Bloodlines are going to be more familiar with how VTM works than those who have never touched anything VTM (what is a prince, how does being a vampire work, what are the politics). Bloodlines is also a video game so it’s a lot more accessible compared to those who play the tabletop (which is VTM at its source).
But aside from elaborating more on his point, the answer is not really. There’s some cameos like in Night Road, Lettow knows the Fledgling but other than that, these are standalone, mainly based on V5 (like talking about events such as the Week of Nightmares and the Conclave of Prague).
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I really enjoyed the VTM series from COG.
“The Beckoning” has been mentioned a lot, most recently Vole from Sins of the Sires talking about fight monsters.
Will it be possible for COG to create VTM:Gehenna War in the future?
Huh, that does appear to be the case for this particular game, which is actually cheaper than the tabletop game rulebook.
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If COG did make a “Gehenna War” book, it most likely would not be canon and would also be very difficult to write. When Gehenna happens that usually means an entire end to the timeline (cause the antediluvians are up and destroy the entire world).
Actually, I thought you were discussing Gehenna itself, I don’t have much to say on the war in the middle east so that’s still open to discussion
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A writer style of writing isn’t really a big factor for me. For example I love Knives but couldn’t get into the Werewolves games by the same author and I really like Safe Haven(Not for it’s characters to me they are just ok I just really like how it plays especially the base magment mechanics. I feel a similar way about XOR) and dislike Out of Blood.
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Yup. Exactly this. If your preferred VtM game is like Model UN By Night, Parliament is for you. If your preferred VtM game features katana fights atop speeding vehicles, Night Road is for you. Both totally valid and fun and supported by the tabletop rules.
I would say there’s a third play style that’s very old school and probably what the original World of Darkness was all about: exploring what it’s like to lose your humanity on a personal level, really riding that Humanity / Beast balance. I think Sins of the Sires fits the bill here in tone, but I can imagine how that wouldn’t be a satisfying game for many people.
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Sins of the Sires was probably the perfect entry into the VtM world for me, then - I loved the introspective reflections on humanity and monstrosity, the liminality of a character who has been a vampire long enough to settle into this new way of being but is still surrounded by haunting reminders of the person they used to be.
It’s the only one of the four I’ve played so far - but now that I have a footing in that world, I’m excited to explore it from the different perspectives that the other games have to offer.
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Sins definitely has the themes you’d like. But personally I think the politics of vampire society (most evident in PoK, but also in Night Road) is a significant reason for the internal struggles, and with the MC not being entirely familiar with them in Sins, that’s kinda… lost. Sins has political maneuvering for sure. But just… normal, mortal politics, except by vampires. Not vampire politics.
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Sorry, slightly confused by wording: are you saying you can’t romance Jordan and rescue the Prince, or that you can’t rescue the Prince without romancing the Prince? If the former, disappointing to hear that. If it’s the latter, I’ve romanced Qui several times and rescued him.
I think they’re saying to rescue the Prince, you need to; Romance Jordon OR Betray Corliss
But for the latter, that doesn’t work. Corliss is the one who sent the Prince in Torpor so finding and waking the guy up, he’s gonna understandably be pissed. Either keep him sleeping or wake him up, you’re choosing Corliss vs. Arundel.
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