Choice of Rebels: Uprising — Lead the revolt against a bloodthirsty empire!

I don’t think it works like that. You can use ur blood but to use someone else’s blood I think it would have to be refined.


Speaking of, will we be able to try again with Kenonism later? Maybe put it forward without butchering the concept with a PC that has both Int and Cha?

We’ll see. For some features of G1 I’ll give catch-up opportunities in later games; for others not. Haven’t decided yet whether kenon is one of those things.


As in: currently, or later down the line?
As the latter is surprising. I thought the Diadoch/e was inspired by Sarcifer’s writings.

could have been insired by some parts while other opinons of Sarcifier’s were hard deal breakers.

Neither. :slight_smile:

You can share a diagnosis of the problem and have very, very different visions for how to solve it.


I’m sure this might have been answered elsewhere, but I can’t find it so I’ll ask again! What real-world cultures/regions inspired the fictional nations? Obviously the Karagond culture is inspired by Greek/Byzantine cultures, but what about the other provinces?


Shayard is a mix of France and England. Whendery is a bit like Poland but with Scottish elements and placed upon Afghanistan-like landscape. Erezza is similiar to Italy. Nyryal is a mix of Persia and Turkey and so is Hallasur as they’re cousin peoples.


I would personally like kenon to be. Not just because of how hard it is, but for three other reasons.

1: In later books you may have Etthena, a high-Charisma, high-Intelligence skeptic, to help convince your people - in G1, both Breden and the Archimandrite are on the devout side.
2: More to the point, as I mentioned way earlier, in Book 1 you can’t sponsor kenon if you actually know what the word means. :slight_smile: It’s a philosopher’s religion, and I’d like there to be an entry-point that favors a combined Intellect and Charisma.
3: At Charisma 2 and in the formative stages of your rebellion, the band is not yet ready to receive the full form of the religion and actually reject the Compassionate Angels. In Book 3, with a higher charisma+intellect and a band that’s had skeptical leadership for longer (and thus attracted more rebels who were already kinda skeptical of the Angels), it may be possible to actually preach the absence of Angels, Elysia, Xthonos, or any fate but what we make.


Anyone have a guide for low anarchy 2intel and to get captured in the start?

To get captured from the start just either select your worst skill to interupt the harrowing or don’t try and stop it

Sowe is right; here’s the link to the post where I said it most clearly:

Getting captured at the start makes low anarchy easier with any stat, since you’ve got a vastly smaller band to feed.


What game path do you prefer? What is “canon” route for your MC?

  • Low Anarchy
  • High Anarchy

0 voters


I have a question, somewhat connected to the matter of high/low anarchy. Considering that Kalt/Simon will lead some movement/band on his own if he’ll not join MC in Game 1, would it be a viable strategy to play first game opposite in terms of anarchy to your wanted ally - and to eliminate Kalt/Simon in Game 1 so they would not rise as your rivals later? For example, imagine you’re rather ruthless, pro-aristo fellow. So you’re playing as high anarchy rebellion(but friendly to aristocracy, it’s doable), then you let Kalt join your rebellion but you kill him in some way in game 1, and then in future games you aim to ally and incorporate Simon movement because it should be friendly to your ideals. @Havenstone


I’m perfectly happy for readers to do that kind of meta-gaming. :slight_smile:


Honestly a lot of the talk about Kalt/Kala since release has made them sound interesting enough that I do regret getting them killed at the final battle of Rebels. I do think taking major losses helps with like, the authenticity of the rp though


Hi sorry, I only periodically check this forum, and I’ve been quite busy with work recently at any rate. For what it’s worth, I am more active on the Discord (where I moderate), so you should check that out!

To answer your questions: Traps run into diminishing marginal returns after 150 of them. On a 2COM build, I would set 50 traps each in weeks 8/9/10. On other builds, I would not set any.

To maximize enemy losses, you basically just want to get a TON of well-armed men. This is not too difficult, you want to amass a food/mule surplus early on and then get your recruiting engine going. You have a lot of room for error, in this game you really only need to “fully optimize” when you go Ruthless and gain lots of enemies, while being Skeptical (weaker than Devout).

For an example of a thoroughly-I would guess fully-optimized build, you can see my “Savage Goete” guide on the Steam Workshop page.


How’s this for a potential “non-empire building” niche for MC to focus on: coordinator of the XoR version of the Underground Railroad/Witness Protection Program?
(assuming that MC does not see much hope in permanently shutting down/replacing Harrowing, and will thus instead settle for “merely treating the symptoms” - aka spending the rest of his life rescuing/smuggling innocents from Harrowing, while also creating safe havens/new identities for the rescued)

In other words, it’s a reasonable interpretation to assume that K is inspired by Machievelli: “In general you must either pamper people or destroy them; harm them just a little and they’ll hit back; harm them seriously and they won’t be able to. So if you’re going to do people harm, make sure you needn’t worry about their reaction.”

My MC, on the other hand, arguably leans more toward Sun Tzu: “When you surround an army, leave an outlet free. Do not press a desperate foe too hard”.

Assuming that the date range of the argument is strictly limited to “those past few centuries”, then yes, it’s hardly a cycle.
However, after we include the hypothetical “K-triggered doomsday future” into the date range, NOW we have a cycle to perceive (and be afraid of).

When you put it that way, it really does sell the point that XoR’s aristocratic wealth is both figurative (AND literal) blood money; so yeah, K’s anger is definitely understandable/sympathetic.

However, K’s approach… lacks nuance (a flaw which is dangerous for any aspiring leader, since politics inherently requires compromise).

Anyways, here’s MC’s proposed “punishment tiers”, as described below…

Tier 1: For the “white sheep aristo” minority (e.g. De Firiac, Mikal de Rose, and (tentatively?) both Horion and Teren) who did benefit from aristo privilege (in the general “idle rich” day to day routine) but were otherwise likable/decent people who didn’t personally harm helots (to the point that their helots could vouch for their respective characters) -
Merely tasked with paying their former helots retroactive wages (for past years of service).
(MC is content to keep these “deserved nobles” around as legacy holdovers (as the start of a new generation of nobility who actually behave nobly).

Tier 2: For the “bad faith dating” aristos whose actions/snitching caused the maiming/deaths of innocent helots (e.g. the cowardly aristo boy who threw Poric under the bus, thus causing Poric to lose his tongue; and Calea, who’s pretty much XoR’s nastier take on Black Widow) - Stripped of both status (and 3/4ths of their respective family fortune/assets), and then sentenced to a lifetime of community service/celibacy in Xthonic monasteries/convents. Attempted escapes will be punishable by death.)
(And PS, Eclect MC will personally ensure (via constant monitoring) that Calea cannot socialize/scheme her way up to the top of the Xthonic priesthood chain)

Tier 3: For the “murderous, ‘hunting helots for sport’ war criminal” aristos (e.g. Hector), MC’s fine with sending them to the Harrower (or some other form of lethal punishment, if MC deems Harrowing off-limits in his idealized post-Hegemony society).

Then MC will rephrase his argument accordingly.

Assuming that K is indeed inspired by Machiavelli (or the XoR version of him), perhaps MC’s following paraphrasing of Machiavelli might be relevant here:
Even though it may be safer to be feared than loved (if one cannot be both), one should never cross the line so far that they end up hated.

Violating guest right (e.g. by murdering non-combatants/bystanders) is very much a hatred-triggering line-crossing behavior, right?

Anyways, since Machiavelli doesn’t exist in XoR, surely there’s an Erezzan (and/or Whendish) intrigue-centered parable/cautionary tale out there about the pitfalls of violating guest right, correct?
(E.g. “and then (insert guest right violator’s name) died a miserable lonely death, falling into the flames of Mount Doom”)

@NotMyRealName’s previously mentioned idea about consolidating ex-aristos into the merchant class (aka “if you want to stay wealthy, you’re going to have to work for it going forward”) sounds like a really appealing idea/compromise here.

(along with @idonotlikeusernames’ vision of a Napoleon-inspired meritocratic system of aristocratic titles)

Could a sufficient CHA-specializing (or CHA/INT hybrid) helot MC (backed by any Leaguers who actually give a damn about equality/meritocracy) be able to convince the other Leaguers to accept this ‘downgrade’/career change?

(and perhaps the “cherry on top” incentive here could be a one-time ‘severance package’ for the after-taxed soon-to-be-ex-aristos, thus providing a sufficient grace period to readjust to their new lives as “equal to everybody else” private citizens)

(And for another (or alternative cherry on top) what about giving the ex-aristos trial runs as hotel/inn owners of their former estates?)

Alternatively, assuming that Napoleonic meritocracy will later be instituted, helot MC will instead appeal to his fellow ex-helots that his (still alive/loyal) Leaguer buddies (e.g. (hopefully?) Teren and inner circle) have earned the privilege of retaining their aristocratic status for two reasons:
1- Because of the Leaguers’ combined meaningful contributions on the political front (e.g. brokering/maintaining marriage alliances everywhere to keep all member provinces buddy-buddy with each other)
2- AND because MC’s (genuine) helot-friendly Leaguer aristo allies (the underdog minority faction which became the new face of the Leaguers by purging the arrogant aristos (and other bad faith actors) from their ranks) honored their word about providing rights, protections, economic opportunities, and meaningful representation for the former “lower classes” (helots, yeomen).

Could you verify if the characterization/design of Kleitos and the Nine were directly inspired by Sauron and his nine Ringwraiths/Nazgul?
Not only do the Talismans feel thematically consistent with LOTR’s Rings of Power (in my opinion), Kleitos’ alleged “handsome god image/persona” suddenly reminds me of Sauron’s “Annatar, Lord of Gifts” disguise.

K’s idea is duly noted.
Such a gesture will certainly qualify as a compelling Leaguer PR/advertising stunt (at MC’s insistence/guidance).

Looking at XoR’s map, I now understand why Wiendrj doesn’t have any high sea banditry: it’s pretty much a landlocked province.
But what about Nyryal? The XoR map shows us three Nyryal-adjacent bodies of water:
1- Between Nyryal and the Bloodless Reach,
2- Between Nyryal and Erezza,
3- Between Nyryal and Karagon (albeit, a tiner lake(?) that’s positioned just right above Aekos)

So if my aristo MC (or “fake aristo” helot MC) wished to formally court/marry de Firiac (in a fashion that gained both the blessing AND tangible support of de Firiac’s relatives and like-minded aristos), then CHA 3 would be their only path for doing so?
(while in contrast, hybrid stat MCs could (maybe?) only settle for eloping with de Firiac, unless they triggered enough of an anarchy score to rewrite/bend the rules concerning “socially acceptable marriages”?)

Are there any particular Abhuman/Seracca transformations that specifically focus on enlarging the “aether reserves/coils/vessels”?
(or is such an enhancement outside even the most proficient Abhuman’s capacity?)

All aboard the Whendish engineering train/movement! :slight_smile:

What % threshold qualifies as ‘Cosmo-light’, exactly?

Returning to my earlier Templar concept (hybrid priest/merchant banking faction idea), how much tension/dilemma might there be for a Cosmo/Leaguer/Whendish industrialist helot MC who aspires to simultaneously pursue both the merchant prince path and an “Eclect of all nations” path?

Might the Syntechnia’s more pragmatic leadership periodically feel annoyed that their Eclect guildmaster’s idealism/preaching might sometimes get in the way of “doing efficient business”? (While on the other hand, acknowledges that the MC-led priesthood’s Cosmo vision has culminated into a wide embrace of global trade/skilled immigrant workers, all (or most) of which has lined the Syntechnia’s pockets?)

And from the Xthonic priesthood POV, might there be a faction who’s (allegedly) concerned that the Eclect guildmaster MC has potentially become too worldly/materialistic/secular to be considered “a true Eclect”? (Under a given logic of, “mankind cannot serve both Xthonos and money”)

And then that faction is potentially composed of two sub-factions: the true believers who genuinely wish to guide the Eclect back to “the true path”, and the opportunists who see an opportunity to replace “the filthy helot/Eclect pretender” with a puppet who will undo MC’s reforms? (Thus backsliding towards aristo bullying dominance/helot subjugation)

And on another note, I highly recommend that you read (or listen) to God’s Bankers (by Gerald Posner), which is a very compelling tale about the Vatican’s 200-year financial history/list of controversies; the audiobook has given me plenty of thought about what sort of intrigue/corruption/“betrayal of principals” might potentially result from XoR’s “men of money” and “men of Xthonos” mingling too closely (if MC isn’t supervising things closely enough, or worse, ends up participating (or at least complicit) in the corruption himself).

So in other words, my Laconnier monarch-Grand Moot “checks and balances” compromise (as mentioned during an earlier post) would most likely be enough of a deal-breaker for the Laconniers to start plotting against me? (and/or against my chosen puppet/ally)

On the other hand, perhaps a couple of token concessions here and there might be enough to bribe the Laconniers into compliance (or at least a state of grudging tolerance):
1- MC picks Grand Shayard as the capital of the post-Hegemony Shayardene Empire
2- In a similar vein to our world’s various real-life Chinatowns (and building upon @Ramidel’s suggestion about providing “safe space outlets”/“light treason social clubs” for the Laconniers), each of the non-Shayard provinces (Wiendrj, Nyryal, Erezza, and (maybe?) the Abhuman Federation) will allocate a small-to-mid-sized plot of land for a ‘Shayardtown’.

FYI, after playtesting, I think(?) I can verify that you have to gently reject the Brecklanders (from the “sabotage Keriatou wealth” subplot, if your MC treated them nicely) from joining your band in Ch 4, citing the need to keep your numbers lowered for the stealthy getaway.

Just to clarify, the Big Three you’re referring to are Halassur, the Unquiet Dead, and the Abhumans, correct?

Is Teren a feasible “Laconnier heir” (as the beneficiary of MC’s ‘forged bloodline’ scheme), or alternatively, would Teren instead qualify as a suitable royal consort of the Laconnier monarch?
Regardless if Teren is the monarch or consort, I can already imagine the gears turning in Teren’s head (on how to gradually ‘nerf’ the Laconnier monarch into a Leaguer president in the grand scheme of things).

Is it possible that Teren’s process (for weeding out unworthy suitors) takes inspiration from Penelope (from the Odyssey)?
E.g. “whoever can string Horion’s rigid bow and shoot an arrow through twelve axe heads may have his/her hand”?

Alternatively, maybe the contest is a measure of intellect/rhetoric, with the winning suitor being the one who can successfully out-argue Teren, fair and square?

How much of a “omg, the foreigners are gonna steal our jobs/prosperity” paranoia do the Cabelites feel?
(And on a separate note, “THEY TOOK OUR JOBS ! Durk a der!” is a favorite South Park quote of mine :slight_smile: )

On a minor note, do any of XoR’s cultures feature any scavenger hunts as teambuilding/icebreaker games?

If I could briefly return to our long-ago tangent (about XoR cuisine), apart from lefse, what sort of favorite foods do the Shayardene coastal elite enjoy the most?

Based on the cultural influences that I remember you mentioning, here’s what comes to mind…

1- Anglo/British:
Fish & chips,
Fish pie,

2- French:
Lobster Thermidor,

3- South Asian:
Coconut milk curry/stew

With the sneaky caveat being “power publicly held by theurges”, since he has no problem with manipulating MC into becoming his stooge/puppet leader.

Upon further consideration, wouldn’t the “theurgy replacement” biotech solution be an attractive incentive that makes any sort of alliance with Phaedra (at least) semi-palatable? (especially if MC staked their political credibility on their goal/claim of one day ending Harrowing)

Or, is the stigma of Phaedra being Kleitos’ heir still overwhelming enough to override all other considerations? (thus causing the political suicide fallout that @Havenstone mentioned in an earlier post)


What % threshold qualifies as ‘Cosmo-light’, exactly?

Most likely >50 and <75 as currently you get cosmopolitan hardliner bonus if you have 75 and above cosmopolitanism.


doomsday seems like an exageration of where K is leading they’re definitely heading down a blood soaked road but it’s one that would see the helotry free and richer.

Also why should any of the aristos keep their land and wealth that’s basically leaving them in charge they got that wealth by the hegemony giving it to them and violently taking it.

Also non combatants/bystanders might be it’s own separate thing but unless you were their host or guest it wouldn’t be a violation of guest right. Guest right is the host taking responsibility for the protection and general safety of their guest and vice versa so if you were invited into a home stealing from your host would be a violation but breaking in and stealing wouldn’t be