Choice of Rebels: Uprising — Lead the revolt against a bloodthirsty empire!

[mshan95032]

@Ramidel

As the esteemed Cataphrak has said many times in his own game, a High Tory can have many values that we’d find sympathetic, but at the end of the day, he is still not your friend.

But the High Tory doesn’t necessarily have to become helot MC’s enemy either.
Whether through compromises/alliances (of varying strength), or plain old subversion/hijacking, I’m feeling very excited about the various ways that helot MCs can team up with (or subjugate) aristo allies.

@NotMyRealName

(although I suspect that for some of the nobility Hallassur cruelty to horses is more compelling)

@Havenstone
Will there be later XoR narration/moments that pokes fun at the aristo’s skewed priorities/horse obsession?

E.g. rumors get spread that an aristo wishes to pull off a Caligula-inspired stunt (of “making a horse a consul” of the post-Hegemony new world order)

@Havenstone

De Firiac probably wouldn’t leave a rebellion led by Jack Sparrow

@Havenstone
While we’re still on the topic of Jack Sparrow, is Kleitos similarly monstrous/alien looking as Davy Jones?

@Havenstone

as long as it can’t be dominated or taken over by the nobility

Luckily for K, MC’s Defenders of the Codex is in the mood for hiring enforcers.

@Havenstone

or hamper the vengeance of former helots against their former masters.

The only ‘hampering’ that my MC would absolutely insist upon is making sure that due process (aka fair trials transparent to the public) is followed (when punishing these former masters); “innocent until proven guilty” is an essential principle that should not be abandoned (from MC’s POV).

Because even though MC is thrilled with the “just enough” anarchy sweet spot that provides helots with more social climbing/career opportunities, MC ultimately still aims to build a stable nation of laws (where everybody has fair opportunities to get justice through “the proper channels”, rather than futilely destroying each other in endless cycles of revenge).

Anyways, MC’s (probable) later goal here will be to shift K’s mindset from ‘Punisher’ to ‘Batman’, if possible.

@Havenstone

You don’t really mean “self-controlled” here–none of K’s attacks are done on blind impulse–but MC-controlled. And the answer there is definitely no.

I would like more clarification on the “not done on blind impulse” caveat; K killing their abusers (to get revenge and secure their own survival/freedom) was certainly understandable (and not blind/random), but what about their (potentially unsanctioned) murder of Horion and Linos during Game 1?

These murders give off “killing aristos just because they’re aristos” vibes, especially since I didn’t see any clues that indicate how Horion and/or Linos personally wronged K.

@Havenstone

K could well be the “bad rebel” to your “good rebel,” but it wouldn’t be an act, and they wouldn’t stop just because it was hurting your efforts to make some noble alliances.

At this point, MC would strongly consider engineering circumstances that get K saved/protected by “white sheep” aristos (e.g. de Firiac) from the nastier mainstream aristos (e.g. the Keriatous), if only to finally get it through K’s thick skull that aristos (like every other group in life/history) include both good and bad people.
(And that we shouldn’t needlessly antagonize the “white sheep” aristos into becoming K’s self-fulfilling prophecy)

@Havenstone

pirate confederation

@Havenstone

So are the Qalsa or Corsairs, though they have a greater tendency to combine theft and trade when it comes to the goods passing through their territorial waters.

Which province (Shayard, Wiendrj, Erezza, or Nyryal) would you say has the most active/populous pirate community? (or are they all approx. equally distributed amongst the four)

@Havenstone

Hey, Plektosis braintrust! Get me some laser sharks!

Havie, with regards to the “post-Hegemony non-empire-building role”, what’s your thoughts on MC potentially becoming a “Plektoi Park" owner, in a manner akin to that of John Hammond? (from Jurassic Park)

@Havenstone

But to influence the Cabelite leadership choice you’d really need yeoman clout, not just homelander aristo clout.

Will Game 2 feature any Cabelite “farmer’s market”/“homeowners’ association” meetups for MC to gain such clout? (in preparation for Game 3)
Looking forward to Bethune giving my MC an invitation (if possible)!

@Havenstone

The Abhumans don’t feel they have anything to learn from the Inert on this topic.

At what INT threshold/mastery (and/or tutelage progress with mentors such as Cerlota) might Theurge MC be able to make the Abhumans reconsider their above-mentioned, short-sighted attitude?
Or will this be a “permanent prejudice” that MC will simply be powerless to deal with?

@Havenstone

A country noble can infiltrate the high society of Grand Shayard and will have plenty of company with other ambitious bumpkins. Impressing them is much, much harder – perhaps conventionally impossible for a non CHA 3 MC.

Might there still be hope/flexibility for hybrid builds (e.g. CHA 2 INT 1 MC, or CHA 1 INT 2 MC) to win over these prospective Grand Shayard allies, or is this truly an “all or nothing” scenario where CHA 3 is absolutely required?

@Ramidel

Assuming they don’t just decide that this is an opportunity to annihilate the Inert and their wretched, blasphemous ways.

(MC narrows their eyes) The analogy of putting down a rabid Old Yeller with a shotgun suddenly comes to mind.
I would prefer to maintain the Abhumans as friendly (or neutral) neighbors, but if they insist on exterminating my friends and I, then we’ll have no choice but to defend ourselves at all costs.

@Havenstone

and rewards for non-extreme middle-of-the-roaders

Would a hybrid Devout/Skeptic MC (e.g. still technically a Xthonist, but is not blindly loyal to established doctrine; or other e.g. a skeptic who acknowledges that Xthonism has a handful of useful virtues that can be cherry-picked/salvaged) have an easier time (than my previously discussed theocracy-seeking (but still tolerant) Xthonist MC) at brokering peace between the Shayardene Xthonists and Nyrish skeptics?

[NotMyRealName]

@mshan95032

finally get it through K’s thick skull that aristos (like every other group in life/history) include both good and bad people.

That might be difficult the aristos own the helots as slaves and have for hundreds of years that will leave a cultural scar that will take more than a few token good ones to wash away. The conflict between aristos and helots is deep rooted and not the kind of thing that just goes away over night. To get them to work together will logically require some masterful nationbuilding

[Havenstone]

@comradelenin

I wonder how screwed I am in my current playthrough since I was obvious

Not screwed at all. By the end of Game 1, all INT 2 characters have publicly used Theurgy to save themselves from Plektoi, even if nowhere else. That will be known across Shayard by G2, adjusting whatever fondness the priests may have felt for you.

The spears are a G1 bonus item which as Ramidel has noted aren’t linked to either priesthood cred or being a Theurge, but rather whether you’ve caught the eye of the Laconniers.

[comradelenin]

Personally, I actually consider the aristos to be the greater evil than the church. Aside from the actual harrowing, most of the cruelty is at their hands. My rebellion has prioritized killing aristocrats and avoiding the church all together.

[idonotlikeusernames]

My gay helot has a rather different view, since the church are the literal preachers of the caste system and even the priests that ostensibly mean well still do not view him as quite human as their mercy is more akin to animal welfare than anything approaching human rights.
And on a very personal level Zebed always preached that it is an abomination for helots to be gay in the first place, a position that is at least tacitly tolerated by the church and without the events of the game would probably have picked up enough steam to become official doctrine in two or three generations, thus making the caste system even more abominable.

Not that he views aristo’s all that much more favourably as they are the quisling beneficiaries of Hera’s nightmare system and Gann has taught him a hard earned lesson to never trust pretty aristo boys spouting pretty words again.

With that said extirpating the caste system root and branch and ending the worldly and hopefully a good chunk of the spiritual too power of the nightmare church will remain one of the foremost goals of my mc.

[NotMyRealName]

a good example of this is how it was Simon/Suzane for all of their honour and not Kalt/Kala who has killed strangers out of personal frustration prior to coming to the rebellion. K’s murder was of a slaver who lets say the slavery dimension put’s a predatory spin on their relationship but K’s murder was illegal whereas S killed to enforce an unjust law. I kind of think for that reason dialogue about K being a dangerous unhinged person and S being a paragon of morality misses a few aspects of their characters.

The aristos are cruel individually and systematically while also not culturally viewing helots as humans. Also the fact the nobles want to retain ownership of the land creates the issue that post aristocratic rebellion the helots would still be dirt poor and utterly if not more so at the mercy of the nobility.

In some ways the helotry might be better off if the nobility was the thing to go rather than the hegemony as the helotry suffer from poverty to keep the nobles rich just as much as they are murdered to keep the hegemony powerful.

[comradelenin]

@idonotlikeusernames

My gay helot has a rather different view, since the church are the literal preachers of the caste system and even the priests that ostensible mean well still do not view him as quite human as their mercy is more akin to animal welfare than anything approaching human rights.

True and they also do the harrowing thing. Thing is that simply practicing the faith or preaching it doesn’t make one evil and I have nothing against the average priest who I’d be stealing from. My character is also quite religious (despite being bi herself) and would rather reform the church than destroy it. Religious institutions can be used to oppress but they aren’t inherently oppressive. They can always change (unless it’s one of those scam cults or shit like that). Nobility however is an inextricable part of the caste system that places the helotry at the bottom as property with their role being to subjugate them and reap the rewards. Even if we don’t completely abolish feudalism, the current ruling class needs to be dethroned. “My way or the highway” is my policy. You want to keep your lands, fall in line.

[Sowe]

Can your own aether regenerate after using it in Theurgy? Or after each use you permanently decrease your “magic” supply?

[idonotlikeusernames]

@comradelenin

and I have nothing against the average priest who I’d be stealing from

My mc of course does, as even the “liberal” wing of the church still view him as an animal…they just want to do animal welfare stuff…mostly to make themselves feel good. Whereas my mc wants to break the caste system entirely.

[NotMyRealName]

@idonotlikeusernames

My mc of course does, as even the “liberal” wing of the church still view him as an animal

I didn’t get the impression that Olynna thought of helots as animals and in theory that isn’t what the doctrine says

[Natman1025]

Anyone know if letting the rebels train with their weapons and arms actually helps them with fighting? It just sees like the “all other options expired” option sitting at the bottom and having everyone committed when you hit it.

Trying to see if I can just outright make my rebels professional level with some training and a bunch of that option but rather ask before I make the long attempt

[Havenstone]

@mshan95032

Will there be later XoR narration/moments that pokes fun at the aristo’s skewed priorities/horse obsession?

Let’s be clear, they aren’t as obsessed as all that. The real reason they hate Halassur is the child-killing and endless war – the horse-eating is just a confirmatory factor that the Halassurqs are barbarians.

@mshan95032

is Kleitos monstrous/alien looking?

No–his look is more god than monster.

@mshan95032

The only ‘hampering’ that my MC would absolutely insist upon is making sure that due process (aka fair trials transparent to the public) is followed

All that will set you strongly at odds with K, who believes that the way to stop a cycle of revenge is to break the oppressor so thoroughly that they don’t have the strength to persist. K would point out that the past few centuries have hardly been an “endless cycle of revenge” in which the helots and masters destroyed each other, notwithstanding the constant brutality and injustice inflicted on the helotry. K will be satisfied to stop the wheel of change when that power dynamic is reversed, and the former masters are as systematically powerless as the helots used to be; at that point, and no sooner, K might listen to someone calling for magnanimity, mercy, or a system that will let off some of the nobles. Meanwhile, there’s no need for a trial to tell you who’s guilty of profiting from helot blood–just look at who’s got wealth and power and owns helots.

@mshan95032

what about their (potentially unsanctioned) murder of Horion and Linos during Game 1?

It was certainly unsanctioned (by you) and you’re right that it wasn’t a response to any personal injury, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t premeditated or thought-through. When K recognized Horion as the Archon’s cousin, they saw the golden opportunity to demoralize the enemy by killing the highest-ranking noble who was ever going to pass through the Outer Rim. K wanted to make sure you didn’t waste it. The fact that you may disagree with K’s strategy doesn’t mean they’re operating without one, or that you’d easily persuade them to change it.

@mshan95032

finally get it through K’s thick skull that aristos (like every other group in life/history) include both good and bad people.

Their response would be something along the lines of this dialogue from G1 Ch3:

${kalt} cuts in savagely. “If you’d lost your own flesh and blood, you might find it harder to haggle with the ones who grew fat off it!” $!{zhe} strides across the clearing. “Make no mistake, ${kuria}, the nobles of Shayard understand what’s at stake. Even the ones who hate Karagon know that if the Harrowing of helots stops, all their wealth and comfort will dry up and blow away. If you’re not frightening them, all of them—if you’re not their first military priority—then you’re doing it wrong.”

A silent moment passes after ${zhe}'s finished. “You’re wrong, ${kalt},” you finally say.
*if aristo
“I’m not the only noble with a conscience. This isn’t a war of the helots against everyone else. It’s a war against the Thaumatarchy.”

“I’ll believe it when I see one noble not named ${orig_lname} raise their voice at a Harrowing.”

@mshan95032

Which province (Shayard, Wiendrj, Erezza, or Nyryal) would you say has the most active/populous pirate community?

Organized smuggling and sale of illegal goods goes on in all provinces, as does banditry (though banditry on the high seas is pretty much limited to Erezza and Shayard).

@mshan95032

what’s your thoughts on MC potentially becoming a “Plektoi Park" owner, in a manner akin to that of John Hammond?

Amusement! But alas not amusement parks, which belong to a much later stage of cultural and economic development than the gameworld’s setting.

@mshan95032

Will Game 2 feature any Cabelite “farmer’s market”/“homeowners’ association” meetups for MC to gain such clout?

Game 2 won’t feature the Cabelites, but will give you a few chances to strengthen your relationships with the yeomanry in ways that might stand you in good stead when you get to Game 3.

@mshan95032

At what INT threshold/mastery (and/or tutelage progress with mentors such as Cerlota) might Theurge MC be able to make the Abhumans reconsider their above-mentioned, short-sighted attitude?
Or will this be a “permanent prejudice” that MC will simply be powerless to deal with?

If you get to INT 6, it will be because you’ve taken instruction from the Abhumans on how to make the most of self-fuelled Theurgy. You’ll at that point be on par with their best practitioners – while also potentially bringing in knowledge and skills from being taught techniques of Harrower-fuelled Theurgy, which they’ll continue to refuse on ethical grounds.

@mshan95032

Might there still be hope/flexibility for hybrid builds (e.g. CHA 2 INT 1 MC, or CHA 1 INT 2 MC) to win over these prospective Grand Shayard allies, or is this truly an “all or nothing” scenario where CHA 3 is absolutely required?

If you want them to be actually impressed with a backwoods bumpkin, CHA 3 is a must. If you’re satisfied with them being willing to ally with a backwoods bumpkin, other combos will work just fine.

@mshan95032

Would a hybrid Devout/Skeptic MC … have an easier time… at brokering peace between the Shayardene Xthonists and Nyrish skeptics?

Brokering interfaith peace is a challenging gig whether you’re an insider or an outsider. As a middle-roader, you’d have the advantage that neither side sees you as a major threat, but the disadvantage that neither side really trusts you as an ideological ally. Hard to say whether that will end up being an easier path. But it will definitely be doable.

@Sowe

Can your own aether regenerate after using it in Theurgy?

Yes, aether is self-regenerating over time, up to the limit of what your body can hold.

@Natman1025

Anyone know if letting the rebels train with their weapons and arms actually helps them with fighting?

It bumps their morale by up to ten points per turn, as they feel more comfortable with their weapons. There’s definitely no advantage to having more than 10 followers per turn doing it.

[Natman1025]

Awwww damn, I was hoping to make the final battle against the army more equal person to person wise
Thank ya!

[Sowe]

So, if aether is self-regenerating, can we theoretically enlist portion of populacy that we can(if possible) make capable of low-level self-sacrifice theurgy in annual seasonal/yearly ritual where we will transport them to the wards and strengthen them with collective effort of these masses?

[Havenstone]

I’m afraid not even the greatest masters of self-fuelled Theurgy could ever make or sustain a Ward – neither individually nor jointly.

[NotMyRealName]

what’s going on with xaos storms. Do the abhumans not have them or if they do how do they deal with them. Why didn’t they destroy pre-hegemony Shayard

[Havenstone]

@NotMyRealName

what’s going on with xaos storms

Wait another couple of months til I post Ch 1, and you’ll have plenty more grist for debating that question.

@NotMyRealName

Do the abhumans not have them

They do not. As noted upthread, wildstorms dissolve quickly over water, and the Abhumans are separated from the Storm-source by plenty of it.

@NotMyRealName

Why didn’t they destroy pre-hegemony Shayard

They didn’t exist pre-Hegemony. The first Storms in what is today the Xaos-lands appeared 90 years after Thaumatarch Hera declared the Hegemonic Era and started her world conquest.

History

[NotMyRealName]

could the wards be replaced with a great canal then

[comradelenin]

@Havenstone

They didn’t exist pre-Hegemony.

Which leads me to believe perhaps that the Hegemony caused them somehow. Perhaps keeping the Wards up is self-defeating since while it blocks the storms, it also makes them possible.

[NotMyRealName]

in the timeline the storms came before the wards so if they are man made it wouldn’t be the wards