The benefit is much the same as every NATO member gets for the sacrifice of autonomy and treasure: security. Not just security from external threats, but also (primarily?) from the other members of the alliance. Shayard can focus on its border with the not-chaos wastes and the abhumans rather than its borders with the other members of the alliance. If they are particularly deft they may even get a non-aggression treaty with the abhumans.
I think the modern context conflates the economic integration of the EU and US with the mutual defense alliance of NATO. They really aren’t the same thing. I would expect such integration to really only follow after decades if not centuries of post-hegemony defense cooperation.
@WarMaster999 You can romance a noble! Suzanne/Simon de Firiac appears a bit later in the game, but you need to fit certain requirements during Winter to meet them (anarchy less than 20 or 21, I forget which). For now this is the only noble you can “romance” (although I believe more will be appearing in the next games!) and admittedly this noble has a non-traditional (with regards to CoG romances, ‘traditional’ according to the game’s lore) romantic path, but personally it is my favorite. I absolutely adore them!
@SilasLock I could have sworn you had convinced me to your position last time we chatted about this! I don’t remember my original position, but I will contribute a teeny bit: Romance Breden poisoning the food also does not make sense, with regards to your theory. Breden has already, by giving the MC a Kryptast code, defied their presumed ‘masters’ and, if they were ever acting as a Kryptast, effectively shunning those duties. They’ve made it clear that right now their goal is to help the MC survive, whatever the cost. However, if they poisoned the food, they made no moves to help MC avoid eating it even though it is confirmed that MC’s food is poisoned. It doesn’t make any sense to “betray” their Kryptast duties in such a way by literally giving the leader of a rebellion a Kryptast code and then being strong-armed into poisoning the rebellion which, if it had succeeded, would have rendered the MC basically incapacitated. It would have made sense if Breden had secretly tried to convince MC not to eat it, swap out the food, etc. But they did none of that! I personally think the poisoning was a mistake, made by Breden but definitely a mistake.
@WarMaster999 The noble is rebellious, but they are kind and chivalrous- definitely not ruthless! They appear to want a rebellion for both helots and nobles, but they do appear to have a nuanced view on their relationship with helots and their status as a noble (to explore this, I recommend during Spring, choosing the ‘hit back at the wealth’ option when given the chance. You get to learn more about them then!)
I definitely prefer to start as a helot, but I think it depends on your personal taste! As a helot, the crimes the Hegemony has committed against you feel very visceral. Harrowing is terrifying and it is your lived reality as a helot, as well as your eventual fate if you don’t do anything about it! It also makes it easier to relate to the helots and other members of your rebellion because you’re one of them, you understand how hard it is.
As a noble, you still have a lot of reasons to rebel against the Hegemony, but none are as obvious as “if I don’t, I will be harvested for my blood.” So, nobles can feel a bit more nuanced. Of course, as a noble you can feel that helot’s fates are unjust and use that as a part of your motivation. Also, while helot rebellions are said to be pretty common, noble rebellions are said to be a bit rarer. Plus, there’s the option to play as a “traditionalist noble,” in which you firmly believe in your rights as nobility and that the Hegemony is showing blatant disregard for them.
Honestly, it’s up to you! Both paths are very interesting, and I recommend trying both at some point.
I don’t know if there is a discord, but I’ll bet there is.
Being a Helot does give you a lot of relatability to the primary characters, especially those in your inner circle like Elery, Radmar, Kalt/Kala, Breden if people think he’s a Helot not a traitor, and the Elders.
However I think being a Noble does give you some perspective, a lot of it being from your mother being a kind person to Helots and being from a destitute House with little to no influence at all. You’re close enough to see the Harrowings and injustices up close, whilst having some empathy to them potentially, as well as seeing how the Nobility treat each other and are treated by the Hegemony too. You’re right, it’s a helluva lot easier to get in the rebellion mindset as a Helot, but I feel like as a Noble who cares about the Helotry you have the ability to be a better rebellion, and make that connection to the rest of the Hegemony’s citizenry that a Helot might not automatically have.
Personally, I like playing a Noble, but I also do love the shock factor of being a 2 INT Helot and who romances the Swordmaster, kind of a breaking down of social barriers. My Noble playthrough will firstly be romancing Elery though!
I agree about the perspective! My first ever playthrough was as a helot, and I developed a mindset of “screw the nobles! Why should I care about them?” My next playthrough was as a noble and it was really interesting feeling that perspective shift, which carried through to my subsequent helot playthroughs. I don’t know for certain if noble = better rebellion, but it definitely makes it easier to get them to support you. (I guess that’s why I prefer 2 CHAR helot playthroughs. If you’re so charming, they have to like you eventually!)
So the original map has the correct spelling, ie. Stezyc. I assume the pre-Hera Shayardenes probably controlled Szeric too then since it is not only relatively close-by, but also appears close to the largest pass allowing access from Shayard. Is there a smaller pass farther east, or is the pass north of Rim Square the only way through unless you can fly?
After 300 years, all of the potential successor states are heavily interconnected economically.
In a time of economic dislocation and potential starvation I’d much prefer to live in a breadbasket than in a successor state that lacks the arable land needed to feed its own population.
I don’t really see the parallel here beyond both being “breadbaskets”. Ukraine’s situation both after the Iron Curtain fell and immediately after WWI were markedly different.
The others lack arable land. And what currently passes for industrialization is dependent on the blood economy which you plan to end. Post-hegemonic industrialization will be dependent on discovering a feasible alternative to harrowing.
I don’t see where you’re going with this.
I don’t know why you think Shayard lacks resources, or is somehow less able to innovate than the other potential successor states. Karagond and its other satraps aren’t exactly models of “first world” efficiency so Shayard doesn’t really have a high bar to meet here. And that said, Shayard most definitely should reclaim the Vendrine Hills from Karagond. Keeping what “industry” exists in the Vendrine Hills viable I think will be an interesting project for those of us who are planning to put an end to harrowing.
It still requires resources other than just the fuel source to actually produce stuff and those minerals are what Shayard seems to lack in any great abundance (it may or may not lack the alternate fuel source, although the most immediately obvious one for anything but the blood agriculture would be coal and leaning more into the as yet unseen Steampunk elements of the gameworld).
Teren is Horion’s niece or nephew. They’re a noble who lives in Grand Shayard and they’ll become an important character later in the series. Also a possible RO! Politically, I think they lean closer to the Leaguers than the Laconniers.
In contrast to @yarnball, I prefer to be a noble during my playthroughs! Depending on their stats, a helot main character can be illiterate, and I like to be as educated a rebel as I can possibly be.
I also think aristocrats have (albeit only slightly) less “mind poison” than helots. As a helot, you’re subject to a fair amount of indoctrination due to your upbringing (i.e. to fear nobles when they go on hunts, that your duty is to serve others and to maximally reproduce). Aristocrats are also subject to indoctrination–see, for example, how their sexual norms differ from those of helots as a function of their class status, and how they tend to view Alastors in a distinctly more positive light. But having weighed each group’s indoctrination on a scale, I think the aristocrats experience a little less of it overall.
Furthermore, it feels rather good to reject your class status when playing as an aristocrat, if that’s the path you choose to go down. Forgoing your traditional titles and privileges once the rebellion starts is a really enjoyable experience, but you can’t do so if–like a helot–you never had any traditional titles or privileges to begin with.
