Choice of Rebels: Uprising — Lead the revolt against a bloodthirsty empire!

Hence why building our own naval capacity will be key as the Hegemony does not fully utilize its potential there and the coastal wards are far too expensive to maintain.

I suppose we could also parley with them ? :slight_smile:

I don’t want to sacrifice human life needlessly

The Halassurq would purge Erezza, enslaving millions(they’d probably do the same thing to Nyryal on a smaller scale), Karagon would probably get genocided(probably by mass blood harvest of the population). And the Halassurq will require you to cede at least Nyryal and Erezza, and allow them to genocide Karagon.

Well, that’s Halassur’s problem, isn’t it. My MC(although he’d probably prefer to fight them) wouldn’t ask the Nyr’s opinion before cedeing Nyryal.

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Maybe not the whole of Shayard – it’s too important as the continent’s breadbasket. But probably something bigger than the Vatican.

Oh, definitely. Starting in Game 2.

There may by that time be some Nyr in your revolt who could cause moderate trouble for you over that–and other factions who would be strengthened against you if the Nyr abandoned you wholesale. But you’re right that it would be more of a problem for the Halassurqs.

I wanted to share some thoughts about Halassurq tactics, naval and otherwise, but it takes us too deep into spoilerland. Keep on speculating, but it’s an area where I’ll stay silent.

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The fact is the breadbasket makes easier that I get to the whole. Who super power would really wanted that the other have the breadbasket. I certainly believe all of them pretty prefer a ceremonial small peace country were they can store money and pact secretly if needed and use to peace part of their religious population and that will sell really cheap. Than the enemy have it.
EVERYONE NEEDS SWITZERLAND so why not be a Vatican’s version of both after all those are linked by history.

A Switzerland is handy for lots of reasons, but Shayard is more than three times the size of France. No one is giving the Swiss that much prime territory, I’m afraid!

Now, the Rim as Switzerland/Vatican is thinkable…

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Lol I always forget that Shayard is BIG. Yeah you are right too much terrain. i always imagine shayard like Switzerland in size don’t asking me why. Probably because the image of a bucolic farmland with cows or something lol

Speaking of which, are the Ridings bigger or smaller than the Rim? Also, how would they manage to:

If the Rim is that big, surely they wouldn’t be able to comb all of it?

I remember in one of the earlier chapters, the Theurges looking for the Mc wasn’t able to find him, even though they had his scent. And even the Mc said it was a relief yet unexplainable. I always thought it was a secret theurge helping the rebellion, Sarcifer perhaps?

Isn’t the Reach the religious heartland and thus the Vatican? Supposing Mara in fact wants to keep/reform the current nightmare religion as opposed to starting her own more or less from scratch?

Aekos is the current Vatican.

What have you got against Xthonos?

But the Reach is where the religion originated prior to it being appropriated and corrupted by the Karagonds and their Karagond “Codex” or so some of the more seditious Xthonites would tell you.
If Aekos is the Vatican then the Reach is Jerusalem, or maybe even Mecca and you can have it without it also being the base of at least two other major religions. For those who want to reform the nightmare religion moving away from Aekos and the Karagond Codex would be very helpful.

Well, gee, let’s see what could my mc possibly have against a religion in the name of which he’s nothing more then a piece of blood-cattle “fated” by immutable caste to a life of miserable menial labour and then the worst kind of death imaginable, all in the name of Xthonos and his merry band of murderers, though they call them “merciful” angels. It also de-facto deters helots from being gay, so that’s another one.
Really at this point there are a fair few tender “mercies” my mc would like to inflict on one of those Angels, assuming they’re more than just a figment of the imagination of the faithful. :unamused:

Doing away with the current nightmare religion and its immutable caste system has always been my mc’s primary goal.

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You’ll just turn all of the religious factions against your rebellion. You won’t be killed, but it’s very likely you’ll be one of those perpetual rebels Havenstone mentioned, rather than a major power.

I’ve had this argument long before you came along, but as a born helot doing away with the caste system is a prerequisite if you want to really get anywhere and hold any actual power.

Also there’s a lot of resentment against the current church and the Karagond Codex. As for the Shayardene one, since most ordinary people (and I think crucially not even the diakons themselves) in Shayard and the rest of the Hegemony don’t even know what’s actually supposed to be in that particular version of the Codex it isn’t impossible to reshape it into a lawful religion by taking out any problematic bloodline descent, anti-gay and slavery passages, before publishing free copies for the new schools and the edification of the people. The rest the former diakons can figure out themselves in free and fair competition with all sorts of other religions and cults. My mc may be an atheist himself but he isn’t necessarily anti spirituality, just anti-caste and given that he is one himself pro gay.

What he doesn’t want is nightmare organized churches with priesthoods who pursue temporal power and meaningless luxuries at the expense of everything else. Which is why he hopes that by decapitating the church hierarchy and cutting it off from all public funding the former diakons will actually have to start figuring out things for themselves and start truly ministering to their (at least in the rural regions) primarily helot flock, if they want to survive as priests.

It’s also important to remember that the current Hegemony is a de-jure theocracy, so by the very act of rebelling against it my mc is already opposing the current, organized church too, as it is inextricably linked to the Hegemony state.

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Actually you can reform the religion into one focusing on freedom even when you’re not religious. You dont have to stick to the authoritarian hierarchic religious system and when you take this path peoples are particularely open to your interpretations going as far as hiding your members from the authorities. In my walktrough I made it air centered and said everyone can hear angels but I think you can reform it in a few different ways as well.

Doing Mara levels of charisma in later books I could certainly been creating a unified religion in base of Shayardene fake something I come with and each super power believe the other is an usurper of the glory of Xronos. Like exactly Vatican put all kings during centuries. Also I will give attracting peregrine stuff and a public orgy day in the harvesting season. that and awonderful ruthless civilized merchant guild aka banking. Being only neutral peaceful place in continent. Basically best Mara could do knowledge her own limitations

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Or the Diakons decide that since you’ve killed all the Ecclesiasts, you and your rebellion are the enemy and must be eliminated at all costs.

You’ll lose every noble by doing that, and they’ll take their retainers and all the merchants who do business with them(almost all of them) with them. You’ve said your rebellion is going to ally with the Traders’ Guild, but if you kill all of their traditional clients, they’ll turn against you.

And opening the current system up to competition will solve that? Most people will still worship the Angels(what competition would they even have?) and so you’ll end up with the same corrupt priesthood.

No, it’s not. If you agreed to play the nobles’ game of decadence and honour, and you made a claim to “lost nobility”, they’d probably accept you as the leader.(your MC won’t, but that’s his problem, not a helot problem)

(noble) Families in the current Hegemony are not bloodline exclusive and adoption of free persons as well as gay marriage are currently perfectly permissible. My mc’s concern be to make sure there’s no backsliding in that area as it is one of the very few things of the old Hegemony he intends to keep. Particularly not on account of some some ancient scrolls possibly saying “men lying with other men is an abomination” and that bloodline descent is sacred, or some such nonsense.

As for losing nobles, well my mc’s brand of rebellion and the fact that he is an unashamedly gay helot and uses magic was never going to hold much appeal for the current nobility and my mc has never intended to go out of his way to kowtow and subordinate himself to them again just in order to make his rebellion slightly more appealing to the old oppressors.

Yes, remember the current theocracy has not had to seriously compete with other religions, who might offer salvation without needing to be harrowed or having a miserable life being treated as a farm animal. I think in its current state the Hegemony is particularly susceptible to religious competition particularly since, again, being a theocracy any failure of the Hegemony could also be interpreted as failure of the church or even the religions as a whole, a fact that competing (would-be) priests of the revived forgotten gods and many others are sure to exploit to maximum effect. Ultimately I also thing my mc will come to believe in religious plurality as a potent check and balance against a new theocracy.

This is rather conveniently a game no helot knows the rules of. And he’d rather have the former nobility struggle with the rules of his new system than the other way around, particularly since he genuinely loathes decadence and won’t take to it. As for the “honour” as the mc can already more or less tell Simon it’s a bunch of nonsense the Church, as in the current theocracy he opposes, seems to have devised as in informal check on the lower nobility in particular. The highest rungs are not bound by it at all and most current nobles seem to ignore it whenever they can.

When it comes to claiming “lost” nobility remember that most helot families are so large due to the natalist drive to maximize the number of blood-cattle that you’d also be creating a never-ending line of “pretenders” to your new fake, pretend title.

Trying to play the games of the nobility would be a losing proposition to any former helot. The only sort of people for who it might work would be the upper rungs of the merchant class. So as our mc’s cannot be a merchant or a yeoman for that matter this is a moot point.

No, they won’t. Or at least not without killing at least half of the current “nobles” like @P_Tigras used to say and even then only grudgingly.

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@Havenstone
I was doing some nerd stuff to try to determine the dimensions of the Hegemony and I just wanted to see if it checked out with you:

7,600,000 km2 Hegemony Total Land Area
3,300km North-South Geographic Extreme
5,000km East-West Geographic Extreme
Similar to Mainland Australia (bit more stretched out with more ocean in between)

2,100,000km2 Shayard Total Land Area
2,000,000km2 Erezza Total Land Area
1,600,000km2 Wiendrj Total Land Area
1,300,000km2 Nyryal Total Land Area
600,000km2 Karagon Total Land Area

All distances here are approximate and a big assumption was that XoR’s planet is of Earth-like proportions.

Edit: For additional context the Roman Empire at its greatest extent under Trajan in 117 AD was “only” 5,000,000km2

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I assumed it may be a bit larger, given the fact that Hallassur is reportedly a bit larger than the Hegemony still and there’s also the abhuman federation, whatever is left of broracha and the lands held by the unquiet dead and that’s just for one continent, there are others too and the ocean’s may still cover most of the planet.