Choice of Rebels-Uprising Help/Hints

First, when built that way it’s harder to convince your army to fight in the first place. Remember that Breden’s influencing against you, Eclect or not. Second, strength doesn’t win battles, what wins battles is cooking their supply train and killing their theurges. (INT2 is actually better for theurge-killing, but that should go without saying.)

Heresy. Suzane is love.

I hit one merchant mule train and one noble estate in my quiet runs. Merchants give very good loot in terms of mules, even if you can’t pay them off for it, and one mule train may not interfere with cutting a deal with Alaine (which is of limited use anyway).

I think the Breden issue is a valid concern, but as a 2CHA character, you can replace Breden as a recruiter/negotiator on many missions, slow down her influence rise, and override her as Chapter 4 begins. I overrode her on my Helot game. On my Noble game, I got lazy and failed to override her (I could have done it if I micromanaged the winter better, though perhaps at the cost of some soldiers), but it didn’t make much (if any) difference on the battle itself.

(EDIT: Just played as a 2CHA Ruthless/Devout/Homelander High Anarchy Aristo. I overrode Breden again. It might be that you need Kala/Bethune/Radmar to help you speak, but I’m not sure.)

I agree with you on winning battles, but I want to win with the most men remaining (which is contingent on defeating the Archon as soon as possible in the final round, before he can use flanking and air support to kill more and more of your army). After much experimentation, I’ve found that for both 2CHA and 2COM builds, it’s better to have a larger army where most people are armed and trained, as opposed to a smaller army where everyone is armed and trained.

Heresy. Suzane is love.

Right, but didn’t Havenstone say that Breden is supposed to be of the sex that the player character prefers (unless you’re bisexual)?

Anyways, maybe my Male Helot can make Calea a waifu in the next game…then I can happily kill off Breden in Uprising haha.

I can confirm that *set tagmasword true exists.

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Well, that’s the advantage of 2INT - the enemy theurges are usually no longer a problem by that point and enemy morale is in the crapper.

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By any chance, do you know how a user can take a look at the game’s code? There’s some things I wanted to check.

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Thanks!

I’m trying to find out how to make the Nobles love you as much as possible.

Being a noble is most of it. Also, not attacking nobles. (They’re kinda squiffy about cosmopolitanism, unlike yeomen.)

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Try practically all of it, oh ye great master of understatements. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Not surprisingly since the Shayardene ones who might be sympathetic to the idea of rebellion and overthrowing the Hegemony already seem to have by and large thrown in their lot with the Halassur funded Laconnier usurpers. :unamused:

It’s not even that. They respect the old blood and old Shayardene ways, but they also respect an old-blooded Shayardene who’s willing to give all that up by taking a Karagond name.

It’s the yeoman class who are mostly “Shayardmen proud and true.”

And even a helot can earn a certain degree of tolerance from the nobility - and much more than tolerance in later books. Meanwhile, I’m sure that Havenstone has set up traps that lie in wait for our aristocratic MCs :slight_smile:

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Yeah, I’m honestly looking forward to seeing how our dear author is going to handle that, even in our European systems it most often took about 2-3 generations for the newly ennobled to be properly viewed as part of the nobility. instead of jumped up commoners. Considering the Hegemony has a caste system that makes India’s look like a Mary Poppins act and no mechanisms at all for “elevating” deserving individuals out of the lower classes (because the religion flat out states nobody from the lower castes and classes will ever be deserving).

You betcha! For starters Halassur isn’t funding the Laconniers out of the kindness of their hearts in the spirit of the brotherhood of mankind to free the oppressed peoples of the Hegemony or some such.
Then there’s all of the noble business as usual, involving copious amounts of the stuff Mara’s dreams are made of that they’re certainly not going to put on hold or quit in the face of an impending regime change and all of that’s probably the tiniest tip of the iceberg.

Makes sense. I just did a 2COM/1CHA Ruthless/Devout/Homelander Aristocrat playthrough where I copied the strategy in my “Aristocrat Wisard” guide, but I assaulted the Brecklanders to get 7 more Noble points out of it.

Earnn looks embarrassed. “Well…not that many helots were willing to talk to us, milord. Reckon they don’t see us as their rebellion.”

But…

Another scout volunteers, “Mikal de Rose led a band of Phalangites and a Theurge off into the Great Brecks. Said he’d heard you would be leading a sheep raid there. As far as we can make out from talking to his retainers, milord, that was something kurios de Rose made up out of whole cloth, just to lead them away where they’ll do no damage.”

and thus…

You brace yourselves for the next round of attack…and slowly, incredulously realize that none is coming. All the movement you can see through the trees is withdrawal. Without Theurgic support, the Phalangites aren’t foolish enough to keep assaulting an uphill position against a force well supplied with archers.

Worth.

Guess Reynard de Eramant will not be the champion of the slaves that so many hoped he would be. The nobility and free folk will prosper, though.


I find that in Aristo playthroughs where I let the Harrowing happen, I’m going to piss off the Helots anyways, so it helps to use Homelander to at least get the Yeomen positively predisposed to me.

Well, if you piss off the helots, then you can always pay them off later.

And I do, but I need a Winter recruitment source haha.

Anyways, I guess it’s still doable as Cosmopolitan, but don’t quote me on that.

Meanwhile, I’m sure that Havenstone has set up traps that lie in wait for our aristocratic MCs :slight_smile:

I’m not sure about a trap for Aristo players, but IIRC, Havenstone mentioned that Low Anarchy players will face larger Hegemonic armies (because they aren’t off restoring order to Shayard). This will lead to more tactical challenges compared to a High Anarchy player (especially one with High CHA). It seems that Aristocrats will like Low Anarchy, judging by Suzane refusing to join your rebellion if you have even moderate Anarchy.

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I refer to a trap for aristocrats to balance out the fact that helots don’t get easy access to aristocratic support, and in general aristos have a lot of advantages (which is why they tend to lead in the first place).

Suzane isn’t a typical aristo any more than Kala is a typical helot. She joins you because she imagines that your rebellion will be peaceful and orderly in general, while most aristocrats care whether you’re targeting aristocrats.

I mean, almost nobody cares if you knock off Alastor garrisons left and right, except Suzane. Suzane doesn’t see that you’re fighting the Hegemony; she just sees what happens when the Keriatou lose their grip on the Rim because they can’t afford to garrison market towns. Everyone arms themselves or hires guards, and uses those weapons to take care of long-simmering feuds and vendettas because the Alastors can’t effectively police them, while starving yeomen attack market towns to get enough grain to eat. Other people don’t blame you for that effect - just Suzane.

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Yeah, you have a point. I originally thought that recruitment depended on how much people love you, but past a relatively low floor, it doesn’t look like it does. Then it seems like Aristocrat players have it pretty good compared to Helot players, because it doesn’t look like there’s much advantage to having Helots love you to high heaven.

Then again, for 2INT Secret Theurges or 2CHA Low Anarchy players, the advantages provided by playing nice with Aristocrats are also superfluous, since you already have a way to eliminate all the Theurges.

Overall, the differences seem fairly minimal between Helot and Aristocrat, but it does seem that 2COM Aristocrats have an advantage going into the final round. I’m not sure what builds would favor a Helot, tbh.

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As of now, the one area where Homelander helots win is with Carles’ survival.

Other than that, the fact is that aristos are a lot harder to buy off than helots are. Also, aristos have the free use of Calea’s support in dealing with Hector and spying on the enemy, they have Ismene de Galis to help with aristo rep and the Architelone, lower-INT aristos can teach reading…

Yeah. I think the area where there’s the least effective difference is probably 2INT, because those helots can teach reading and writing, and a Secret Theurge is an I-win button for the finale.

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Hmmm…I guess that a Helot has an easier time getting to +51 Helot Cred (the number required to secure the Helot’s aid in the battle) than an Aristocrat has of getting to +101. An Aristocrat can do it (pay the helots, brutalize authorities, noble barn/estate raids, murder the de Merres), but the path requires pissing off other factions…in effect, the Aristocrat converts himself into a Helot.

This is true, a helot Theurge is also the most damaging the to Hegemony’s prestige and the Xthonic religion both.
That said everything has trade-offs and educating your minions is more likely to make them less obedient and the helot mc doesn’t get any natural, inculcated “deference” from their followers. Then again our resident Tiger used to call helots the hard mode, what I want to do the “impossible” mode and also called for the aristo’s to not have it as easy as they do now. :wink:

I’m not sure I’d go as far as “win” here Carles seems to be a spy for Halassur, the rival superpower with its own agenda who are also backing the Laconnier pretenders.
It goes for both helots and aristo’s that being a homelander helps with getting the band as large as possible, provided that’s what you’re aiming for.

I also think succesful aristo’s can basically take over the Laconnier cause (and title) if they’re so inclined, helots not so much.

Well the author did hint at some opportunistic possible Calea “support” for helots but that will be the furthest thing from “free” as I understand it. My mc would also rather die then give into Calea’s whims of course.

This is true, a helot Theurge is also the most damaging the to Hegemony’s prestige and the Xthonic religion both.
That said everything has trade-offs and educating your minions is more likely to make them less obedient and the helot mc doesn’t get any natural, inculcated “deference” from their followers. Then again our resident Tiger used to call helots the hard mode, what I want to do the “impossible” mode and also called for the aristo’s to not have it as easy as they do now. :wink:

I wouldn’t say that there’s an easymode or a hardmode…I guess in the particular situation of a 2COM build where you play nice with the aristos, being an Aristocrat would make the final battle easier. But for Secret Theurge or 2CHA Low Anarchy, the numerical advantage endowed by playing nice with Helots would give an advantage to the Helot (or for a traitorous Aristocrat that becomes a de facto Helot). For other builds, there’s minimal gameplay differences IME…in Book 1, at least.

I also think succesful aristo’s can basically take over the Laconnier cause (and title) if they’re so inclined, helots not so much.

But I thought the whole point of the Laconnier Conspiracy was to place a descendant of the last Shayardene queen on the throne of a free Shayard (analogous to the Golden Company and the Blackfyre Pretenders in Game of Thrones). They’re not going to give up the entirety of their work to a petty aristo like you…not without a fight, at least.

Well the author did hint at some opportunistic possible Calea “support” for helots but that will be the furthest thing from “free” as I understand it. My mc would also rather die then give into Calea’s whims of course.

I’d say sleeping with Calea is a much smaller price to pay than most things I’ve lost in the rebellion thusfar.