Choice of Rebels: Stormwright (XoR2 WIP)

Ah, that’ll be it! Thanks so much–will fix when I have battery.

Edit: looks like I had fixed that in my working version. It’s the one I was looking at yesterday. :slight_smile: Upload coming as soon as QT finishes dealing with a months-long backlog of typos and bugs…

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Well, because of that promise I made last month, I’ve spent the last week incongruously interspersing beautiful experiences of immersion in the infinite love of Christ with huddling near one of the few available power outlets, inventing awful stuff about being tortured to death or ripping throats out with teeth. (Plus a fair few hours of QT bug- and typo-bashing.)

And as a result…I’m only slightly late with that promised ready-or-not update. There are a lot more words up on CoGDemos today.

As you’ll see, a good while back I jumped ahead to write a few endgame sections, to help me get a sense of some of the directions the story was going…then jumped back to write through the closing sections for all the specific pathways through Irduin. As a result, for the very late-game sections, you might find yourself speaking to a character who ran away or died in your playthrough. All ghosts will be purged when I catch up to those scenes in the full write-through.

Now, normally before I release a section, I’ll have played through it a few times to be sure I’m happy with how it reads. I have not done this yet with a BUNCH of stuff you can see in this update! Code readers in particular will be able see my process in pretty much every stage of half-assed incompletion. If something feels incredibly lame or poorly-paced to you, please do feel 100% free to comment on it…and don’t be surprised if the answer is “yep, that’s very much first-draft dialogue; I mean to massage that into more readable shape when I read through that whole story strand.”

You’ll also be able to more or less see what I have in mind for the shape of the rest of Game 2, albeit without a lot of the stat checks that will determine e.g. whether Heud’s powder goes off killing Seichareis in the manor (with several de Irdes) or the Chesnery (with Maurs) or whether the Theurge survives to kill Maurs and (maybe) be killed by you.

So, yeah, I hope you guys get some enjoyment out of it – along with a no-doubt less enjoyable sense of how much is left for me to write! August will I’m afraid be a less prolific writing month, since I’ll be volunteer teaching at my kids’ school again, for more classes this time. (And in Geography rather than English.) But I should pass the million word mark; and the teaching is, again, a limited-time gig, not a full-time job, so by late Sept (or October at the latest) I should be back in full swing on finishing Stormwright.

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Double quote convincing that I’m a Drap.


“Can you promise” is missing a hide_reuse.

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“or (gandhi = 12)” is appearing in the middle of the game text here.

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Putting my thoughts into a bigger post now that I’ve had a day to sit on the update: I quite like what’s there! Obviously big judgements are hard to make with so many TBDs, but I feel like I have a much better idea of the shape of Stormwright now that at the very least its spine is all completed. The endings that are in (the Rampion encounter and the Telone’s judgement as especial standouts) are nicely emotive and climactic, and if the rest of them keep up with that quality I don’t think you have anything to worry about in terms of making Stormwright feel worth playing.

Speaking of Rampion, wow. I have a lot of thoughts about that, and the use of theurgy in Irduin more broadly that have been raised. I’ll collapse those under a spoiler heading for the sake of people who haven’t read the update yet.

Spoilers

Renegade Kryptasts, what a concept. I think the intent here is for us to immediately think of Breden, a neat resolution to their rebellious nature and seeming kryptast-adjacency. Them being a renegade (or, more likely, a renegade’s agent) feels directionally correct, but I’m still not sure it’s actually real. I would hope that, once the gamgees get their content pass, we’ll be able to confront them directly about this and the potential connection to their ‘old master’ (which, as I write this it occurs to me that Rampion refers to their superiors as ‘masters’ as well – and only if you mention an accounting). A very interesting plot thread, and quite possibly the greatest secret we can win out of Irduin. Fitting for springing off the biggest snoop routes.

Regarding theurgy: I think this update has made me reconsider the idea of maximally spreading theurgy, now that it’s presented as more of a choice on the ground. The theurgic violence in the new content is especially horrific (as a bit of feedback, theuteeth should definitely get a sawn-teeth mention, doubly so if the MC nearly got eaten), and none of it is particularly complicated. If anything having an experienced theurge around reduces violence (see Cerlota at the chesnery massacre, which as another piece of feedback shouldn’t put theuknown up since it wasn’t the MC doing it). I certainly don’t trust someone like Snip (the fact that the MC asks if he knows about Hyron with a straight face is hilarious) with that power. I’ll probably revise my opinion again once we can actually see our pupils in action, but for now I’m probably dropping down to an ‘only the educated/worthy’ stance.

Finally, a request: could we use the power of teamwork to make Helot-Yeoman unity more achievable for low-Cha MCs? An MC with a helot focus with Ciels, or an MC with a yeoman focus with Breden/K could have better leverage to achieve it with only 1 Cha by pressing from both angles in way they can’t alone. Be a cool way to make the two of you feel like more of a team. (Also in this vein, Ciels being able to provide combat training to the Yeomen in the way he can the Helots would be cool.)

Request 2: When Calea is seen on the road to Grand Shayard, all the responses are uniformly negative, even if you cooperated with her before High Crag. Can an option be added for MCs with the backwoods conspiracy to look to renew their collaboration instead?

Request 3: Can the secret you uncover with a Priest focus and Inn subfocus be made into something… better? Learning Ulmey is a heretic tells you nothing you don’t already know from the Priest path, where the other two secrets expose something big that you couldn’t (outside of very niche routing) learn otherwise. The Priest route already suffers as (imo) the weakest focus, it also being the worst to pair with the Innkeeps really doesn’t help its case.

(Also in this vein ivvaod could use a followup, but that feels more like a ‘to be written’ thing than an oversight.)

Typo report: the Com version of antirampviolence says ‘angkles’.

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This is a good idea. Maybe the ability to leverage Bethune being bandlead/present in the rebellion too, if you’ve gone helot/yeoman should work?

Even if these alternate routes are added, they should still require CHA 1, it feels like.

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finished update. i really liked it especialy Tamaran ending is close to my favourite sequence all around. i also played high unity which from what im seeing is most complited path. ending sequence was also good, funny seeing our 2 old friends :grin:.
Plot wise i think every major focus has something great going and all of them are defenetly interesting i like all noble plot lines and many other ones.
as for stats 2 2 feels generaly great no matter combination . 3 1 stats also all have there time to shine (com 3 will probably see some more use in daring raid so looking forward to it). 2 1 1 on other hand curently feels a little weake .

some thoughts about ending event

Now for my feedback its about tamarans last dialogue about our friend tax man. Whille i think it being binary kill or let go choice is good i think there should be 3 option we could propose compromise where we promise to take him to rebelion and so side step problem especialy as tamaran reveals our secret identity some times. I dont actualy propose that it should be real posibility. like koren could still kill him despite us proposing that, or our proposal got shut down as impractical and people not trusting us but i would have liked it to be possible to bring up even as fake choice becouse curently only having 2 choices when i as reader can imagine 3 balanced solution feels a little jaring. Even if 3 way cant happen i think there is some value in acknowledging that it could have exhisted.

thats said i would not say no to actualy keeping him even if i understand why thats cant happen :pleading_face:

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Only played through two narrow routes, both with Int 3 specializations. Overall, super positive (did laugh at ‘you’ll probably die!’ when I tried to kill Seichareis). I feel most of my issues were probably a result of the game being unfinished

As of now, Int 3 feels very… narrow is how I’d put it? Like there is maybe one or two cool moments with individual specializations (though if you go the wrong path you can just outright miss any uses for certain specializations currently.) Does int 3 outside of specific specializations have any benefits that we aren’t seeing in this draft yet, like more efficient blood use or something?

Yeah, in my case I was lucky on my first run and my specialization came up twice (Enhanced smell, which helped me sneak out of the city and allowed me to sniff out the hidden powder, two very cool scenes), but in the second one (where I chose healing) it never got used.

I like your idea of narrowing the choices to just two schools, though I could see int 3 feeling more important if managing theurgic strain and blood supply is something significantly more important in the full release of the game (since right now it hasn’t fully been implemented, and int 3 takes good deal of the pressure off by making less blood go further.

Oh, and other positive note: 100% prefer the diegetic cues and stat screen text descriptions regarding unity and suspicion, amazing change. I am very excited to see how various personalities in Irduin respond differently to the commotion in response to Cred in the full release.

Edit: Speaking of powder, I would suggest a slight tweak to the options you can make when deciding what you want to do when you hear about a powder recipe that can pass through the wards. Currently, if you pick the options to either kidnap Agarie or tell your rebels to keep your eye out for ordinance officers, you cannot try to learn the recipe for normal miner’s powder from Iddemer (whether asking him directly or spying on him). I feel like those shouldn’t be mutually exclusive (especially if you’re just asking the band to keep their eye out).

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Not especially. This is actually something I noted a while back, and now that its come up again I’ll say my thoughts on it haven’t really changed with the update. Theurgy is still cool, but outside the specs there’s nothing especially cool to do with Int 3 (there are a small handful of checks, mostly more efficient theurgy, but that mechanic isn’t really enough to be worth compared to big bluff and expert fights you can pull as Cha/Com 3 IMO) and as mentioned its very easy to miss your dedicated specialty moments, especially if you say, pick killing or the dex enhancement and then end up being subtle the whole way through Irduin. I still think merging it down from six choices to two is the cleanest way to preserve the original spirit of the split (and avoid rewrites) while making it feel better to play.

That would be the idea yes, shifting the decision from “do you learn this one trick” to “do you invest in the Hegemonic or Seracca school of Theurgy”, taking advantage of the now expanded Sojourn interlude to learn more from your mentor.

I wouldn’t be opposed to this, though I like the thematic unity of making it a choice of schools. Pairing the ‘other’ choices definitely makes them more competitive with healing.

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You mean you get the three specialisations of whoever you choose to train with?

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okay i just checkd all parts of irduin to check how stats balance looked like. we are missing some parts but i do still have some opinions. Stat wise i feared that 2 2 would get overshadowed by 3 1 0 happy to say it did not happen. generaly every combination of 2 2 has something going for it and are much more versatile then 3 stats. i think these is good aproach versatility over specialization. it leads to feeling that 2 2 can do much more things then 3 and i think there is no problem with it. 2 1 1 dose still feel weak and that feeling has not changed i think it needs some unqiue pay off, there is code for it but as rim managment is not finished i cant really say how it plays out.
as far as 3 stats are concernd i think cha 3 is best no suprise there, it dose not lead to that many unique outcomes as same effects can be achived with cha 2 and some other condition in many situations but its has just so many checks. its single best stats for manipulating unity and suspition. and also probably equally best on almost every route. if it gets some more love in managment i think it is generaly in great place. where its good but not overpowering.

com 3 dose not has that many things to do what com 2 cant do or int. but i think thats okay. irduin is not really place for it to shine and as far as i know at least 1 raid is planned plus irduin exploding is not yet in game so i expect some things there. i personaly played as com 3 i did not get single unique com 3 choice but i dont think thats problem i decided specialization and then did not use it and if i get to do cool raid i will be very happy. Not every stats to be equaly viable in all route. same was true for com 2 in game 1 if you did not do raids and stand and fight. maybe it gets army trainig option in managment if you dont have korzastra or something like that?

int is probably hardest stat to judge becouse whille theurgic strain is counted it dose not really do anything same for blood economy. so int 2 and int 3 feel really similar in power levels. these i think can be balanced when these 2 systems get implemented. generaly i would say that it feels like com 3 depending on your specialization with higher highs or lower lows.
now whille i think int 3 can be balanced as curently is, so it can be more versatile then int 2, as i player i would like that sub focues to get more united. i whant to do cool things and curently whille specialization lets you do that i thin they are too spread out :pleading_face:
i think giving int 3 sub focus depending on teacher would be mistake it would make it just best stat and problem would continue in game 3. but on other hand giving it 2 should be okay from balance wise. speed/sense or flying/kill and healing as thrid option. it would mean having 3 sub focus and speed/sense and flying/killing compliment each other as lethat and utility power. meanwhille healing would stay its own subffocus becose of its own dificulty to learn and balance reason. at least thes would be my preferd outcome.

healing

one more reason why i think healing should be seperated is becouse i think healing marus is one of most unique outcomes and it should follow from characters decision to choose power to help others over other more individualy powerfull options. and i think giving it as ‘free’ buff to other sides would cheapen these feeling. if people of irduin defend us in that section and marus can be saved these probably becomes one of my favourite endings up there where he dies and we meet tamaran for dialogue.

these are my curent feelings on stat balance and i know that still a lot of things are missing so i will change my opinion in future. i do think whats in irduin is already great, village growed on me much more then i thought it would at start.

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@Havenstone I am trying to get the Land reward as a Yeomen focus, and found out the powder plot with the merchant subfocus but that wasnt among the rewards. Checking the reward scene, it seems a separate one from the land reward one why is that?

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Is the intention that the Elery and Yebben romances will be startable in the Rim management sections?

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@Havenstone have you ever considered just ending the game at the return from chaos, then pulling irduin into game 3 with grand Shayard? Even after this update, all the possible endings for the irduin section strike me as a bit underwhelming for a game ending, especially compared to the explosive potential of the revelations at the end of chapter 6. Maybe I’ll feel differently with the rebellion management sections written in but right now it just doesn’t feel like it moves the story along in as much of an inpactful way, which is fine, the chapter itself is interesting, just a little bit weirdly paced compared to the start and considering the last games ending.

I also echo the feeling that int 3 feels a little bit underwhelming, in general all of the stats feel a little bit un unique compared to the first game but I have a feeling that will sort itself out with the management sections.

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I quite liked the new update. The endings involving Rampion were pretty cool and the revelation about renegade Kryptasts sheds much light on a certain character’s origins (assuming it’s not a misdirection). The new conversations with Iddemer were interesting as someone who originally dipped into the merchant subfocus just for Agarie’s special powder, although I would like to bring up our own relationship with Father in the conversation about “Family, and the choices of fathers.” Auche’s elopement with Earith and later cold feet developed very realistically for how a sheltered aristocratic 16-year-old would have felt in that scenario. I’m glad we can find a way to give Auche the courage to redeem himself with the right choices. The sequence with Korren in the chesnery was awesome, especially the kitchen fight (give me the option to recklessly reveal my name and I can’t resist), and I audibly gasped when I replayed later and was given the choice to reveal Maurs’s underground railroad to Baldassare to force Irduin into revolt. Quite possibly the second worst thing the MC can do in the series, behind the two instances of child murder.

I’m admittedly more of a low-unity player, but the ending with healing Maurs and rallying Irduin to fight Seichareis has the potential to be incredible and might sway me towards supporting Irduin’s unity depending on how the Priest primary focus wraps up. I’m also very pleased we have an option to encourage solidarity between the helot and yeomen to undermine Irduin’s order, it’s extremely concerning to my MC that there are significant amounts of yeomen hostile to helots as not being truly part of the nation. The option to teach literacy and theurgy is also a nice addition and thematic regarding the dilemma of how the secret of theurgy should be addressed. Definitely keeping an eye out on our three major theurgic candidates Annick, Cynneve and Odier: the former can actually derive the connection between the Stoichea of Hyron and theurgy just by watching us…

Bug Reports

If you enlist the help of the malcontent helots with kidnapping and torturing Agarie de Irde, you don’t get a chance to set a new goal later on.

Heud’s dialogue when you talk to him about giving the powder to the Rim Commotion seems to get cut off prematurely.

It’s impossible to leave the Xaos village without sneaking out, because it’s impossible to reduce the number of reivers below 17. The number of reivers starts at 42 and we can’t kill 26 in the fight. I think the check for the amount of reivers should be much more lenient.

Suggestions
  1. If you admit to Auche that you’re sending him to the Rim Commotion, I think he should be very afraid if you executed House de Merre. To his knowledge the rebels murdered an innocent aristocratic family in their beds out of cruelty, I feel the MC should have to tell him their side of the story and sway him that the rebels were right if they want to convince Auche to join the commotion.
  2. Among the malcontent helots, I think Kelles would benefit from more unique moments and characterization to grant them greater narrative presence. Right now they seem to disappear behind Heud and Annick, and while Narran and Snip aren’t as impactful as the former two they still have their conflict with the Stallards to make them interesting.
  3. I support the idea of expanding access to ird_hel_yeo for MCs with less than 2 CHA by allowing them to leverage their gamgee. Breden could shine using their extraordinary charisma to assist you in winning over the side you haven’t spent as much time with.
  4. This might be presumptuous of me because the Battle of Irduin hasn’t been written yet, but I suggest the chesnery poisoning take place before we can assault the manor (unless Yare made you accelerate the plans) to increase Korren’s threat level and make suspicion more of an issue for low_unity players.
  5. Alasais should be more skeptical of suggestions like cutting subsidies for the Chesnery if ird_wealth is high. I think she’s smart enough to recognize saving too much money might backfire.
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