August 2024 Writer Support Thread

[levviathan]

Do you guys count code in your word counts? I know the 30k for HG includes code but I mean more in general, in your progress reports or your personal stats or even in your WiP advertisements, do you count code? I haven’t been but should I be? Or maybe not should but, am I selling myself short by not doing so? It always seemed to me like readers would really only be interested in the narrative-only word count.

[ChanceOfFire]

@levviathan

Do you guys count code in your word counts?

Usually, yes. But that’s because I’m not sure how to calculate the word count without code (Is it something CSIDE does?)

Anyway, including code always gives you the bigger number. And unfortunately, when it comes to words, we do know that this audience does see quantity as quality. (A reminder) So just count everything, including the code, when your WIP or update is ready.

[AletheiaKnights]

One useful metric I’ve seen occasionally is the average words per playthrough, which doesn’t include code.

[Cataphrak]

@ChanceOfFire

(Is it something CSIDE does?)

CSIDE can exclude command lines, but it can’t exclude “in line” code.

[The_Lady_Luck]

@levviathan

Do you guys count code in your word counts?

I prefer putting up both numbers.

[HarrisPS]

@levviathan

Do you guys count code in your word counts? I know the 30k for HG includes code but I mean more in general, in your progress reports or your personal stats or even in your WiP advertisements, do you count code?

Yes, because it’s how the released games are presented.

[LiliArch]

@The_Lady_Luck

I prefer putting up both numbers.

If I ever get a WIP thread out, I’ll do this and playthrough length (I’d prefer min-max and not average though).

[Hazel]

@levviathan

Do you guys count code in your word counts?

I worked hard on that code, you bet your ass it’s going in the word count.

[Nm6k]

I shall always be thankful to Cazarosta for the 15 points of soldering even when I inevitable have to kill him in the name of the true King

[Remnant]

Happy to finally upload an update for Before the Incident! Other than that, I was looking into buying Scrivener. However, I’d like to ask if anyone here is using it and what their experience is like.

Usually, my process is to write on Google Docs and then paste it on CSIDE. But writing variant scenes is quite annoying on the program as I have to constantly jump back and forth. I know Scrivener goes on sale during NanoWrimo, but I was wondering if waiting is worth it or if I should get it now

[HarrisPS]

I prefer using Sublime Text or VS Code with ChoiceScript highlighters - the VS Code ChoiceScript highlighter highlights most coding errors - because the indentations and code in general is easier for me to keep track of. I would not really recommend using software designed for prose writing (including things like Google docs, Word, etc) although I imagine Scrivener is better than them at keeping track of scene sections.

[poison_mara]

Today I feel really well compared with last couple of weeks.

I am tired of trying to censorship myself with each line I wrote because the fear of audience here in this forum. So I take the decision on whether do it or not. So screw censorship!

It is not a good commercial decision but It is a healthy decision for my own sanity.

As until now first I wrote the entire scene as I would normally. Then another take of censoring anything that could consider too illogic or too risky. Then half of the scene was gone so I had to re write the paragraphs again.

But is not the work the problem, It is the psychological harm eating me alive inside because I was hating having to pretend be something I am not.

So I will write my game and well, confront the failure when it comes high head.

And the end I did it my way with Monthy Python theme in the background

[HarrisPS]

I think that’s a good thing. Writing while thinking too much about the audience or what people will think is so much extra stress.

I think that’s part of why I struggle with writing side-stories and extras, whether or not they’re for paid purposes. I often end up worrying whether they’re appealing enough in a different way to how I feel about my main projects. Some authors release lots of smaller stories and make it look effortless - though it isn’t! - but I don’t get on very well doing that. I don’t like feeling like I’m neglecting making progress on a main project, plus I am (and others are, I hope) ultimately more interested in the main projects than extras.

All of that said… I am travelling today which always gets me in a different kind of writing mood so I’m making some progress on a short prequel story for Honor Bound, about a day from the MC’s childhood. I want to put it up sometime during the beta testing as a thank-you extra. For some reason, being on the move makes me enjoy writing short things more than usual.

[Sailingshells]

@levviathan

Do you guys count code in your word counts?

Others already answered the main question but I thought you might also find this useful, if you aren’t already aware of it: How to get total word count - #2 by RETowers I have it bookmarked and use it regularly For me it’s sometimes helpful to filter out only certain types of code, e.g. my “note to self” comments when they get so long I’m worried they’ll skew wordcount by 1-2k words. I treat my games a little like a monthly planner sometimes lol.

Unrelatedly, does anyone know the right section to post a beta/request for beta testers? I’ve done some looking and it seems there are posts in both the Game Development and Hosted Games (WIPs) categories.

@HarrisPS omg this whole time I thought there were supposed to be 2 separate threads Well that’s good news, I don’t have to go making a whole new post. Thanks for the answer!

Edit: I did it I’m oddly nervous, I feel like nobody’s going to sign up after everything I’ve heard about feedback being hard to get But I do have a few wonderful beta testers from outside the post, so even if I get crickets I’m sure it’ll be alright!

[HarrisPS]

Please make a post in your WIP thread announcing that you’d like people to playtest the full game (you can change the thread title to reflect this too, if you want people to be able to see what’s happening at a glance). Most of the time, keeping to one thread per WIP is the way to go, to keep the forum tidy

[The_Lady_Luck]

‘It would be so much better to start the game a few hours earlier,’ the Muse, that fickle mistress, whispers in my ear.

“I like where it starts,” I murmur to myself, as I flip my burgers. “It was one of the first things I settled on.”

‘But starting while the PC is at work would flow so much better,’ it insists. ‘And the character introductions would happen much more naturally.’

I ignore the thought as I cut slices of tomatos and avocado, but it keeps gnawing at the corners of my mind. An unreachable itch that won’t go away.

“I’ll do it, when (if, if, if!) I expand the story into a full commercial game,” I offer the Temptation. A small appetizer, when it is asking for a feast.

It accepts the bait, and - distracted by the food I’m now plating - slinks back to be a light hum in the back alleys of my mind.

Satisfied for now, but ready to pounce at the next sign of weakness.

Scope Creep is officially setting in.

[Zaxwlyde]

If only I could manage to contain mine…

---

I began to widely expand the Dynamic Events Sequencer over the past few days and went through the first broader pass of dynamically generating Milestone Events. The following occurred:

1. The first time you crawl will be generated between 3 and 8 months old.
2. Your first haircut will be generated between 8 months and 1 year, 3 months old.
3. Your first words will be generated between 10 months and 1 year, 2 months old.
4. Your first steps will be generated between 10 months and 1 year, 6 months old.
5. Lastly… The beginning of toilet training will be generated between 1 year 6 months and 3 years old!

Whilst I still have to write these events out in content, I ran through multiple playthroughs to test and watched as these events dynamically occurred at different months of time.

In addition, I incorporated a dynamic event counter. This will be used in certain scenarios such as in early childhood. I would rather players have unique playthroughs with spread out content, and as such I wouldn’t want them when they’re only a year old to get bombarded with events in one month, and have nothing dynamically generated the next., As a result, starting childhood events will only generate that month if the counter is at 0. The conclusion of a dynamic event will tick up the counter, effectively locking the others out until the next month when the counter resets.

Whilst this is the first pass with age-incorporation, the underlying logic is now sound. I am extremely excited as I can broaden this now and begin incorporating other events based upon friendships, health, mood, hunger, etc. There’s a lot to go but the underlying sequencer platform is capable of dishing things out, and the game loop successfully resolves.

In short order.

1. Player chooses option ‘Advance to Next Month’ and confirms they wish to do so.
2. The monthly events for that month are sequenced and presented to the player.
3. Upon the player choosing to move on from the monthly events recap, the Transition Processing Master Subroutine is executed, processing changes to all core stats from relationship degradation to hunger, looks, age changes, age-ups of family, and much more.
4. Upon completion of transition processing, the game executes the Dynamic Event Sequencer, processing and taking the player through a dynamic event if one is generated.
5. Upon completion of the Dynamic Event Sequencer, the game prompts the player to continue to the next month, with the page_break button dynamically appended to provide the correct month and year.
6. Continuing onwards returns the player to the Main UI with all corresponding information updated and presented accurately, refreshes or stat changes made appropriately, the new month displayed, and the player continues to play the game.

This is a huge win for me, as it’s the first time in full that I can see a proper core loop in place and running effectively. Whilst I still have a ton of work to do, it’s a relief to see that the underlying logic is both sound and effective.

It’s increasingly looking like the first WiP build of Once in a Lifetime may materialize before the end of this year!!!

I hope you’re having a great Saturday!

[Niki_Christopherson]

@The_Lady_Luck

Sure, there’s a lot of merit in the discussion of to which degree author intent or actual presentation matters the most.
But it doesn’t really matter in those kind of lessons whether the author intended to include symbols and deeper meanings, or not. The lessons are not really about teaching that specific text and what it means, it’s about teaching media literacy in general, and the ability see past the obvious layer of meaning, to what is hidden deeper. And for that, you need to analyze the meaning of the details of the text, whether it was intended by the author or not.

Omg, yes, thank you. This is what I was trying to get across and couldn’t figure out words for it.

@Omeg

I’m not really talking about literal curtains here, and neither does the meme Niki is referencing

Yeah, I picked a bad meme, really.

@LiliArch

Ahaha, just found this in my notes.

Holy shit, this was entertaining to read. XD The banter was lively and I really enjoyed it. Especially the deadpan, “Yes, since I’m no count”.

@Eiwynn

@T_Chaney

the idea is to get the code functional from beginning to end and then I actually fill it in with narrative text later.

Lots of us (including myself) build the code/scripting skeleton prior to actually writing.

That’s what I do. I start by outlining in *comments and then add the coding, and then fill in the actual text.

@Foxcat

@izzily I was compelled to send this screenshot to my autistic friends:

TAT I need this friggin link again, I meant to read it but it got lost in my tabs and now I’m afraid I’ll nevr find it.

@LiliArch

@Eiwynn

The “code skeleton” is not set in stone

Not a code fossil. Got it. (Sorry, I just had to.)

I giggled

@poison_mara

I was able to write ten words in a hour. My therapists don’t stop saying I should be positive and constructive with myself.

Your therapist is right! This is more words than I’ve been able to write in 2 weeks. You’re doing AMAZING!

@NMCannon

Despair is part of the writing process, that all writers (and possibly all creatives) muscle through to complete their project. Your feelings are normal.

THIS. 100% this.

@The_Lady_Luck

@leiatalon

sneaks into the writer’s hangout
sprawls dramatically across an unoccupied couch
le sigh

starts fanning leiatalon

looks up from the latest issue of Whistledown. What befalls you now, poppet?

@LiliArch

I still like AI for brainstorming though.

I find it really difficult to use even for this, because it just can’t follow the leaps in my own imagination. I prefer real people for brainstorming.

@leiatalon

@LiliArch

in Finnish could be literally translated to something like “like a fox-tree”

I would be most interested in a fox-tree.

I want to see a fox-tree. Is it red and fluffy? Or is it a tree with foxes for fruit?

@LiliArch

Although most is, but I like this one for example.

This is honestly cute. XD The tiny struggling person really sells it.

@The_Lady_Luck

Today is not a writing day, my brain insists.

Holy shit I’m glad to hear other people have days like this. You sit down, you put your hands to the keyboard and then your brain is like “…no, I don’t think so.”

@Basketball_Fanatic

NO SLEEP TILL BROOKLYN

XD Thanks, now I have this line from the song stuck in my head. XD

@timothv

In my experience, the end is the scariest part. Once you’re done, you’re done. Sure, you can edit, but three years is a long time, right? It might feel like a lot is riding on this. Maybe it doesn’t feel that way, but subconsciously your brain could be blocking you from finishing. It’s tough. I can’t count how many projects I got two-thirds of the way through, only to burn out, get scared, or feel too insecure to finish. Once it’s posted and people can give their full critiques, that’s when the fear really sets in.

Thank you for posting this. I had this same issue happen when I finished my first novel (never published), and so to know others have this same fear… It’s very helpful.

@Cataphrak

The advantage of mostly writing historical fiction is that all the internal security orgs which would be interested in my search history were disbanded when the governments that funded them collapsed in 1917-1918.

giggles in awkward autism google history

@LiliArch

Also libraries are great places to be in.

You are 100% correct and you should scream it from the rooftops.

@The_Lady_Luck

Everyone here (maybe not the published writers, who are used to doing betas, and such), what are your feelings on this?
If you post a WIP, and a reader sees some serious issues with it, would you want them to tell you so?

My feelings on the matter are this: I’d rather know than not. That way I can try and work on my writing skills and fix this issue. BUT, I can admit, it would also dishearten me. As I always feel a little persecuted when I have my mistakes pointed out. but that’s on ME not on whatever kind soul tried to let me know about those mistakes. So yeah, absolutely let me know. PLEASE.

@AletheiaKnights

You’ve never fallen down the moist, throbbing rabbit hole

what the absolutely fucking hell is this sentence

@Dryinspection

The fact youre trying your hardest and making jams and writing a damned IF in a langauge you still in your own words havent mastered is something to be proud of. I can’t do that in my native language. I am lucky to be so fluent in english to feel confident to write and there you are flexing your 3rd language and going further than I can ever dream of reaching in my own 3rd language I am learning.

FUCKING THIS. Like, I am SO AMAZED by all of you who are writing in English when it’s your second (or third or fifth or tenth) language! Do you have ANY idea how amazing you are?!

@Cataphrak

@drymouth

Either I have the choice of accepting the intimacy, or reshaping the scene itself to make it look. Uh. More distant?

The vampire’s bite has always been kind of a metaphor for sex

This. Like, as an intimacy averse person myself (sex-repulsed Asexual), I can tell you, I go into vampire fiction EXPECTING the bites to be just as intimate and weird as sex would be. No worries, hun.

@Cataphrak

Speaking as a cishet dude, I can definitely confirm that we are not above catty fratricidal bullshit, and I suspect any of the many women I know could name other women they’d be willing to go full Achilles-and-Patroclus over.

You are one hundred percent correct here, my friend. And this is why the focus on any character should be to write them as a PERSON first, and their GENDER (or any other defining characteristics) second.

@LiliArch

Best typos for tonight

• wrote “BSD license” as “BDSM license”
• wrote “TADS” as “TARDIS”

… Now I think we should absolutely add “Best Typoes” as a day, like the 15th being our snippet day.

@Cataphrak

Recent updates to CS have made checkpoints so much easier. There’s just a command for it now.

Whatchu talkin’ bout, willis? *No but seriously what are checkpoints and how do we use them?! I’ve never heard of these until todayyyyy… Also still need to figure out how to update CS… Ugh. TAT So many fucking things to do.

@LiliArch

Exactly! Then there’s also accidentally hitting Next, and accidentally picking the option next to the option you were trying to pick and then hitting next without double-checking because you thought it was the right one. Or just skimming. Or misreading.

TAT I hate when I do this.

@The_Lady_Luck

Coming up with titles for games is so weird.

Coming up with names for any project is… like. either absolute torture, or just… It pops into my head for me. Like, either I agonize over it for MONTHS, or I already have it before I even write the first sentence. There is no in between.

@Sujan_Dhakal

As a TTS user, you should really see what kind of names the developers come up for these things

What’s a TTS?

@lliiraanna

AHAHAHAHAHA HOLY SHIT I LOVE THIS SO MUCH.

@LiliArch

“wait for X minutes”

I mean, in most coding languages, if you tell the computer to count a number of seconds, you can make a timer. That’s how people make days and weeks systems in like, RPGmaker and stuff.

@roodcross

I can believe this portrayal of Hooker.

I had no context for this sentence, and so I thought you were saying you could believe the portrayal of a particular prostitute.

@Eiwynn

Here are the nine questions I asked in my pre-beta testing:

Can I steal this pls?

@The_Lady_Luck

This year, I’ve made my own template for how I structure my feedback for the official betas, and it’s worked very well for me.

Can I see it?

@Cat-Toes

My best friend just told me about this writing app that deletes your progress if you stop typing.

that sounds legitimately terrifying and I for one will not ever be trying it

@Remnant

I know Scrivener goes on sale during NanoWrimo, but I was wondering if waiting is worth it or if I should get it now

Dude, scrivener was fucking beautiful as a writing software exept for ONE GODDAMN THING. you have to export everything in order to transfer it anywhere else. Like, you ahve to have two versions of the files if you’re betaing with someone who doesn’t use scrivener, because they cant read the .scriv folders, which means you take up a lot of memory space.

@HarrisPS

VS Code with ChoiceScript highlighters - the VS Code ChoiceScript highlighter highlights most coding errors

This is what I use too.

@Zaxwlyde

It’s increasingly looking like the first WiP build of Once in a Lifetime may materialize before the end of this year!!!

CONGRATULATIONS! Oh, I am so excited to play this. I fucking LOVE games like this.

---

A little late, but here's my snippet:

I’ve been working on this politics section of the stats menu… and I’m honestly not even sure if I’m gonna use it. TAT So like… yay?

[Cataphrak]

@Niki_Christopherson

Whatchu talkin’ bout, willis?

Right here.

[LiliArch]

@Niki_Christopherson

Especially the deadpan, “Yes, since I’m no count”.

He’s a baronet, more specifically. (Intentionally missing the point too, since the other character simply meant he’s a great dancer.)

@Niki_Christopherson

find it really difficult to use even for this, because it just can’t follow the leaps in my own imagination.

Right, but I’m not trying to get it follow my leaps. I’m just feeding it something that vaguely resembles something that’s in my mind and let it mangle it, then I pick on some detail and go full “ooh, shiny”. Like my favourite example about how a particular cape works. Or the time in AI Dungeon when my supervillain’s secret lair was constantly invaded by random people.

Also great for getting ideas about how a wetware CPU might communicate.

@Niki_Christopherson

What’s a TTS?

Text-to-speech. Computer software that reads text aloud.

@Niki_Christopherson

I mean, in most coding languages, if you tell the computer to count a number of seconds, you can make a timer. That’s how people make days and weeks systems in like, RPGmaker and stuff.

Oh I know, but ChoiceScript isn’t most coding languages (even if it actually is built on top of JavaScript).