Again a religious zealot killing an already wasted saintess instead of the soon to be saintess doesn’t make any sense.
Long con would be mc trying to get power in param , making his own faction , influencing politically motivated groups , short con would be to kill them all when he had the chance during the war. But mc went ahead literally wasted and ruined his body performing high pressure magic , won them an already lost war and saved hundred times hell thousand times more lives than he took maybe even more.
But after doing all that instead of seeking power , making factions or even killing all major political figures mc went ahead and killed an already wasted saintess and some replaceable soliders…sorry to say but instead of a con this seems an incredibly stupid thing for a con artist to do and even more baffling is none of mc’s friends or even any beneficiaries of mc’s act of heroism in war even think how this whole scenario is a BIT just a BIT shady.
Forgot to mention all this in a magical world where mind control , body possession and other such things are very much proven and possible.
We don’t know for sure if there was investigation or not, however most likely there was some sort of an investigation done since the MC wasn’t killed on the spot or the day after the incident, iirc the MC spent a week inside the dungeon, and that’s quite the achievement considering that the church wanted the MC dead, an achievement probably came from the efforts of Saine and Illya.
While maybe Leon was too blind to conduct an investigation, we know for fact that Saine would’ve handled the situation with a calm and clear mind, let’s say that maybe it was Saine who started the investigation but all the results were made out to make the MC a villain which Saine knew was out of character for the MC, not just because they are friends but rather because he knows how selfless the MC is, and so Saine and Illya were left with no other choice but to buy time by helping the MC escape as a means to buying time while they resume their investigation about what really happened.
Illya had a good lead with The journal but she knew unlocking it would take time, else why would she bother with trying to unlock it even though the saintess was dead ?
Ante didn’t die, she appears in the dungeon during the captivity of the MC and she basically ruined Illya attempt at saving the MC
Yeah well we know Leon isnt the brightest of the bunch it would’ve been completely different if it was Saine who heard it or if Saine was present during that scene
If we talk from typical perspective of the lore related to games/books/DnD class specific abilities like blink for assassins , fury for barbarians , natural affinity of elves , etc technically dont fall under the category of magic and dont use mana so magebane should be ineffective.
But as this is Parivir’s book and hence his lore only he can clarify this.
It does make sense from a zealot’s perspective to kill the previous saintess - for her presumed sin of being a saintess and existing at all. If mc didn’t assassinate the saintess, she would have wasted on her own, hence, justice not delivered. Sister being the one to have placed the curse on her does not equate to mc being the one to have done that, hence, not a good outcome for mc, who could have been a loner, or just hated Sister and was not in cahoots with her. Remember, Ante has no idea what motivates the mc and who she was dealing with, or who mc could have been working with, she could have assumed anything and been right, since mc wasn’t the type to speak of her past, mc’s silence was what doomed her in the end.
Here’s one instance of a long con: navigate and guide the nation from the shadows through Leon to it’s slow downfall. Why stall and not just off the heirs and be done with it? Well, Ante might have assumed that mc might have been the type to bide her time, since some zealots/ psychopaths like to take it slow, otherwise it’s not satisfactory for them.
Take Sister as an example, she bid her time, patiently played the role of a loving sibling, for years, all for her goal to succed. Mc could have been the same type of person: play the role of a hero, take satisfaction in that too, bask in glory, and then, later down the years finally srtike, to make it hurt more.
Magesong and Magebane are different from eachother
Magesong = Boosts the Stamina of the target
Magebane = basically disabled access to Mana which in turn prevents the use of Magic, (however) i wonder if it works on Arcana too
I don’t think so, no one is being disrespectful or aggressive here, we’re just showing different points of view and if anyone wants to jump in and change topics/comment on it showing their own we will be happy to have them.
You have a point on fanatics being a bit off in the head, and MC would be as bad with logic as Leon to do something like this tbh xD
I’m more surprised that Ante is STILL around even after people realized the truth. Come on now what kind of spy just straight up kills your trump card and gets away with it? Bruh.
I think Saine would probably go with the “keep MC in jail until we know for sure what’s in the journal and if it’s bad we kill them”. I’m sure he wouldn’t give in to external pressure like Leon, and with IIlya’s support who was the first in like to Saintess the both could have held things for a while.
My boy would never punch us and if he saw it he would 1v1 Leon on the spot xD
I think that’s the main issue though, Ante assumed way too much and most of the things didn’t really make sense. And if that was a kind of long plan like that then why win the war to your enemy and put them back on a position of power?
I was only answering eis and pointing out just how many holes the religious zealot perspective would have. You bring up another good point and it really just makes the whole affair reflect super poorly on Leon. Sure he’s not a good statesman like Julius, but you would think that he at least knows MC well enough to, I don’t know, start an official investigation, or do what I and @QuestionableLemonade have suggested - just keep MC in jail before making an irreversible decision. I’ve brought it up before but I’ll just say it again: meta-wise it had to happen narratively but in universe, there could be other factors we haven’t seen. For instance, the investigation that didn’t seem to have occurred. For all we know there was one and it was heavily influenced by Ante’s biases. Then there’s the public angle as well. If Leon, Ilya, Saine, and others reacted quickly enough they could have potentially covered up the whole incident with a “Saintess passed away from her previous condition” while keeping MC locked up to investigate. If the public found out about the assassination though, that becomes a lot harder, because now there is public opinion to deal with and Leon’s already a poor statesman.
the religious zealot theory is really interesting to me because we know two things about it: you kind of have to tilt your head and squint for it to really make sense, and all the parami except ilya and saine completely buy it. why were they so convinced?
one of my pet theories is that leon never really trusts mc fully again after mireil kills julius. he tells you he does, and he probably believes he does, but i wonder if he never really let go of that initial suspicion he had when mc’s backstory is revealed. if that’s the case, then it makes sense that he was ready to disregard the possibility that mc had a deeper motive for killing the saintess. rationally, he might know that the worst mc could possibly have hurt param would have been by walking away at the start of the war, but believing mc was a plant validates a deeper emotional truth that mc was too good to be true. what do you guys think?? also, i hope no one feels disrespected by our mini debate–i just think this part of the game is so fun to discuss bc there are a million different reads you could take
Yeah, she’s terrible at her job, following a wrong lead for years all because of her paranoia… And considering the scathing choices we are given when interacting with her, I’d say she was meant to be an annoying character to some degree. But I definitely can see where she was coming from, she’s not completely delusional in my book.
What I find amazing though is the fact that apparently she gets to keep her job after the BBQ fiasco. Since they are both just terrific at their jobs, Leon probably saw a kindred spirit in her and gave her a second chance? Although in Sunblind(which I believe is confirmed to be canon?) Leon doesn’t exactly sound remorseful about keeping Ante. Definitely looking forward to that conversation.
After reading these thoughts about Ante… I have a hunch that she’s the one playing the long con. Could it be that she’s the agent of the same order that ordered Baron to poison that village?
I mean, maybe she reported MC’s magic to them during war and started playing “the mistrust” card?
The Baron poisoned the village because his dad wanted him to. If you mean the order… of the black torch or whatever, the ones that enchanted the plaque, that’s the same order the twins belong to. There’s no indication that Aste is anything other than a highly-paranoid head of intelligence.
There’s no indication the order has any special interest in the MC; if they did, Aste hardly had to report them - it’s not like the MC’s magic is a secret, they repeatedly use it in open warfare, in view of everyone.
Like, Aste mistrusts the MC for the same reason Julius did - you’re a super duper mage of unknown provenance that nobody has heard of, and you exist in close proximity and confidence to the literal entirety of the royal family plus the prime saintesse candidate.
i can see the order of the broken flame theory! we really don’t know anything about ante other than that she seems to be old guard (?) and distrusts mc (who in param doesn’t) so it’s not like we really have much evidence one way or the other, but we do know that the order of the broken flame is well-connected and supplied according to the baron. it would be weirder to me if no one in leon’s current inner circle turned out in the order considering param’s history.
Edit: actually i think i just assumed she was old guard–we know she succeeded her mentor during the war to become head spy but I don’t think we know how long she’s been in the business
it would’ve been completely different if it was Saine who heard it or if Saine was present during that scene