No need to apologize for the wall of text, it is much appreciated. I definitely see what you and Hannah are saying, and I think I agree with it. I guess I just have this innate fear of disappointing people that’s kind of clouding my objectiveness on whether or not this is a decision worth making. It’s a bit more of a heavy decision than I originally thought it was going to be. I appreciate all of the thoughts and feedback.
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it totally makes sense that it’s a weighty decision in any direction - I hope that I didn’t come across like I was being judgemental about your choices. It sounds like you’re being thoughtful about how you want to do things.
I think this is a very good way to think of it and you can trust yourself 
I am sure that whatever you end up doing people will continue to enjoy the game!
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EDIT: Wait, I just realised! Ryder can fry the fries for me! Yessss, definitely fries with that!
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I’ll say these two things
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Everything is cool when the author says that the genders of the characters are what they are, because the author decided so. It’s cool. When the author offers the reader to decide what they want to have, I, as that reader, expect that my decision will be respected. Fully respected, not a middle ground. If you do a romance game, you prioritize everything a good romance needs first. That includes having a RO of the goddamned gender we agreed upon, no pulling surprises on me in the middle of the game.
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Such a big change of identity can’t be, especially so late in one’s life, a small thing, and it’s a big thing for a relationship. I don’t think it would be fair towards Ryder-mancers to make them go through such a big and charged thing inside their rout when others will deal with problems which do not affect the nature of the relationship.
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Love the demo, definitely looking forward to the full game.
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Do not compromise your character’s stories for the readers. Disappointment will always exist, no matter if it is the readers or yours. Just remember that you have to live with yours. If the change, changes the character and not for the better, do not adopt the change. This is about telling good stories which includes stories you want to tell, so tell your stories. Writers are allowed to have boundaries.
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Eh, feels too much like just trying to appease people, I think.
IMO, if you really want them to be non-binary, just make them non-binary from the start. Instead of letting people choose their gender at the start, maybe they choose between femme and masc presenting non-binary, like how there are ROs in Fallen Hero and Honor Bound who can be trans men or trans women, but are always trans.
This, really. If you are giving the reader a choice about something like the gender of their RO, that decision should be respected imo.
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This is why I think it needs to be its own subplot and not a romance linked one. This is a BIG change to someone’s life. It deserves it’s own story, not to be stuck as a corollary of something else’s.
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I think it would be interesting to do a story about being part of a couple where the other person is dealing with their gender identity could be really interesting. I think making it a subplot of a RO substory in an unrelated sci fi game is a lot riskier, both artistically and commercially. I would read it, but with some trepidation.
While I havent been in a relationship where my partner transitioned, I’ve been close friends with a couple where one of them transitioned FtM. They ultimately broke up after trying to make it work for a while, but are still close.
One thing that stood out is that it was very tricky for the cis friend, (let’s call him A), because he was fully supportive of his spouse (let’s call him B) , figuring things out, while at the same time knowing that because A was straight, B becoming less feminine would make them less attractive to A over time. In that case, the kindest thing to do was to break up, while still offering support, because asking B to stay in a relationship where fully expressing themself was tied to making A unhappy was not healthy for either.
That’s a really complciated situation emotionally, and you would need to make sure that players have the flexibility to fully play out all of their possible reactions to it. I’m not sure that you really have the space to do that in a narrative that isn’t significantly ABOUT transition.
Edit: some additional thoughts:
1: if you do go this route, you will also likely want to have an option for players who transition off of the RO path to switch to someone else. I personally wouldn’t mind playing through a run of a game that is focused on my platonic relationship with an ex, but I think i am in a relatively small minority there. This is doable, but probably a lot of extra work.
2: I wouldn’t worry to much about the risk of changing prior chapters upsetting people who have already invested in them. People on the forum and Tumblr are passionate, but the point of doing an open beta is to give you the opportunity to make a story you are happy with, even if people have gotten invested in the prior version. If not making them NB at the start is a major regret, i would abaolutely do it.
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A bit off topic from everything as I realize what I posted in the poll was… a lot, even for me. The final artwork I had commissioned, the one of Leslie Thoughton, is complete. I’ll post that here, below, for people to take a look at since it is going to be free on my Patreon too.
This is the quality of artwork you’d be getting if you subscribed to the Patreon, but it’s also the first look at the main character of the spin-off Horror book that’s in the works, The Fears of Leslie Thoughton. Still very early in development, but I’m very excited to be working on it to showcase the world a bit more, and to stretch my writing skills beyond the normal thing of what’s usually done here.
As I’ve said before, this won’t slow down Bureau progress, as I’d only be working on this when I get burnt out from working on The Bureau. So, I hope those of you willing to take a risk, after hopefully enjoying this book when it releases, will join me in that adventure to. I don’t usually do this, but I’ll post the Patreon link here as well. Don’t feel obligated to support, this is just for convenience sake for people that decide to.
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the mc’s mutation reminds of the MC from Gakuen Alice, she also has the ability to nullify the powers of others.
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This is true and I agree that the author has full rights for their stories, others may disagree or dislike the story however at the same time feedback for that story should be taken into account.
For this particular story its a murder mystery detective romance story so I really fail to see how exploring a characters sexuality or doing a “transition” or a coming out story, etc will better a story for the murder mystery part, as for the romance part it seems to me a lot of people agree with me that they wouldn’t like it but kind of compromise with “eh its the authors choice” when in reality I have not seen one comment before that poll saying that it should be a thing whereas in other stories the feedback was different with (add M/F or F/F romance pls) from the fans. I think ITFO got a lot of pushback on this online even though its not a romance story.
I personally only romance female ROs, some will only romance male ROs, etc. So the best choice would be to just add gender choosesable ROs which if I’m not mistake this story already has.
Author can do what he wants of course, I’m just questioning the relevance of this new topic, also me personally I wouldn’t play a game/story if the ROs are suddenly changed, for eg if all the ROs in this story turned to guys I wouldn’t play it.
Not sure about Honor Bound but in FH the 2 main ROs are gender chooseable with the minor ROs gender locked. Yes there’s a character which turns out to be trans but thats a very minor part of the story and in fact you have to do a lot to find about that as the character keeps it a secret.
This is the exact opposite of your suggestion to make the character NB from the start so thats confused me for sure.
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In Honor Bound two of the major ROs are always trans. They and the other three major ROs are all gender selectable. It is a bit different to what’s being suggested here as the characters have known they were trans, and started transitioning, a while before the timeframe of the game.
I don’t personally agree that a character transitioning, or a coming-out story, is incompatible with a plot heavy game, especially if it’s a multi-game series in which there’s a lot of breathing room for characters to develop over time. But then I also don’t really relate to those for whom an RO transitioning is a dealbreaker, so 
Edit:
I don’t think this is all that relevant; just because players aren’t asking for something doesn’t mean they wouldn’t enjoy it if it happened.
Either way, I feel it’s very much the author’s choice and character; my general view is that I would find it fun, depending how it was handled and how the MC could engage with it, but it’s not necessarily something I’d ask for without it having been brought up by an author.
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Steel, Herald and Argent are all set-gender romances in Fallen Hero. They are also main romances from the very beginning.
As a matter of fact, Steel’s gender and preference is a major part of who they are, and their personal arc is a major part of character development for both the MC and Steel.
Which leads me to my next point …
It is one of my core development beliefs that character development has a relevance that supersedes most others in a character-driven story. Part and parcel with that development is character identity. This is why upholding the integrity of representative romances is essential.
I feel it is in the author’s best interest to develop the characters as dictated by their vision and their intention to tell a story.
Hannah and I are in agreement about characters and character development being the purview of the author.
It is my view that feedback can be guiding in such matters but never controlling, especially in a work in progress or alpha/beta projects.
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The author originally wrote them as simply forgettable side characters in the first game which acted as a prologue but for some reason decided to give them a bigger role and make them ROs in the second game. So they’re not exactly ROs from the beginning which is the first game.
Isn’t Steel a gay man?, I definitely didn’t find anything to the contrary to his gender or sexuality. Also his personal arc is entirely optional to the MC and story as you are given a choice on who to visit when meeting your ROs, you can also entirely not visit anyone or hang out with anyone.
Of course everyone can agree that the authors can do what they want, no one is claiming otherwise. If the author wants to ignore the Poll results which is the feedback the author asked from other people that’s fine by me.
I don’t understand what you mean by “integrity of representative romances”, would love for an explanation if possible.
How does a characters “gender transition” connect to character development within the confines of a fictional story that is a murder mystery romance, if the author wants to do it thats their choice fine but I am legitimately confused as by why.
As for character identity, this usually relates to something to the story and the consequences, what is the context involved. For eg in a story where discrimination of goblins are common place being goblin is a huge deal but in a story where goblins are commonplace then switching a characters species from lets say human to goblin is irrelevant.
This whole thing is confusing to me, my question would be is if the author wants to do it regardless then why have a poll asking for feedback on it?
All the poll shows is that most people don’t want it and those who are ok with it just won’t do the characters romance by the looks of the other posts I’ve read.
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The author posted a relatively mainstream example - Viktor in Umbrella Academy. There are ways of including queer stuff, and characters going through personal stories (queer or otherwise), in plot-heavy narratives.
I’m not trying to be argumentative, or to nudge the author in any direction or another. But I’m never quite convinced by comments that queer experiences won’t fit into a particular shape of story.
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In a story that has an identity based romance (ie queer), as an author, it is important to present the romance in a way that does not compromise that identity, or even cancel it out.
A character, again, especially in a character-driven story, is not defined by genre characteristics alone.
A story that is character-driven is fueled by character development as a holistic (complete whole) view of story development.
Who these characters are, from the beginning to end of the story is a major concern of @ViIsBae and their development is more important than any perceived genre characteristics and the “constraints dictated” by these.
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Big Facts, Super Facts, Super Saiyan Facts Kaioken 10x Ultra Instinct Facts.
Big Bang Kamehameha x 100 Facts
Yup author can either listen to the other authors who will agree with them since they’re also authors that say “we’re the authors so we make the rules for our stories, take it or leave it” or actually listen to us the readers on what we want that’s all I will say.
I think the author of ITFO got a bunch of backlash for not including an F/F romance a lot of people didn’t buy the game as a result of it and that’s not even a romance game. But hey its the authors choice after all, the readers/consumers/audience will just vote with their wallets.
Huh I just remembered that show, I guess its relatively mainstream since it wasn’t all that popular compared to mainstream shows like The Boys. Its one of those mid netflix shows.
I did a quick read on who Viktor was and apparently it was Ellen Page the actress transitioning from F to M so her character also was transitioned as a result of the real world actress, it wasn’t planned by the writers, they had to adapt as the actress and her fans were actively calling for this to happen, they can’t exactly say “nope”.
Its not about being queer, its about the quality of the stories and the context of how the theme is used in the story.
Also what the audience/reader/consumer thinks of is important if that is neglected fine. The Star Wars Sequel Trilogy and Fantastic Beasts film series are examples of this and they are constantly flopping in the box office.
I don’t even know what is an identity based romance, all I do know is that a romance story whether its gay or straight still has to be of quality, suddenly changing a RO’s identity halfway isn’t something people will like.
At the end of the day its either author does what he wants or listens to the reader as they are the ones who will vote (with their wallets). How can people be expected to support an author who doesn’t listen to feedback. I mean even the character portraits are apparently under a paywall on Patreon while most authors provide it for free by using AI but I gotta spend 10 bucks for the character portrait in this story thats not even as good as the free ones in other stories?
This is why exclusively male ROs or female ROs stories are rare because authors know most people want choice.
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Also wouldn’t that mean that because of this change you would need to change your own sexual preference because of the gender change? This is just a question…
Btw I was on the “ok, I just won’t romance them” train…you have really great arguments.
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A couple of things:
- It’s Elliot Page, and his pronouns are he and they.
- The author is not “not listening to feedback”, she has said in earlier posts that she’s considering what she’d like to do.
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