[WIP] Court Of The Gilded Roses

[bric]

I love a court intrigue story. Enjoying this so far and am curious to see what the Shah is like.

[Crazerk]

Hey y’all. I’m not dead!

@Crazerk

so expect an update over the weekend probably?

@Fatemafehan

The update was expected for this weekend isn’t it

It was i really thought it would be ready by then too ( - me)

Anyway my apologies for being radio silent. I’ve been doing my best to lock in and finish this chapter which means less time on the fourms and less time being active. Also life and stuff. I’m ignoring everything out of love, I promise

This update is shaping up to be larger than I anticipated. Mainly because I arbitrarily decided to include a “get to know” everyone section between lessons in the harem just so you don’t feel like you’re interacting with cardboard cutouts. I’ve also decided to extend the chapter and it will be significantly longer depending on if you pick a certain path. Please be evil and pick that path it’s so much extra writing.

I’ve also been going back and forth on a few things like whether or not to give Kaz children? I feel like it’s still early so now is the time to nip it in the bud. It’s not going to change anything plotwise per se I’m only hesitant due to player perspective. I’m not sure how many people would be down to dating a dad. (No offense to dads) But then again he has a literal harem and like four wives…

All in all we’re at 15k words in and still going strong.

I’m telling myself it’s worth it as this update is going to be rather large and includes the rewrites and additions to the previous chapters which give the reader more options.

Anywho, my sincere apologies, thanks for the compliments and feedback, yes line 574 is still a bitch and I now know better than to tempt the gods of updates.

[bric]

@Crazerk

I’ve also been going back and forth on a few things like whether or not to give Kaz children?

Hm. I feel like this depends on the kind of relationship that can be formed with him. I don’t necessarily have anything against dads, but I’ve found in royal settings, it sometimes gives me the ick because the concepts of harems kinda give me the ick (thank goodness modern society has moved beyond them lol). I also think, as he’s introduced now, he could easily be someone who has a harem and multiple wives in name only, but hasn’t actually… utilized them in that way. In fact, that’s kind of how I read it based on the response to the “will I be forced” question. If it’s not adding anything in particular to the story, and you don’t have a strong urge to do it (which it doesn’t seem like you do?), I’d probably not bother.

[Ashantiberry1]

I personally think him having kids with other wives would be a good idea. The MC can have children, so I think it would make for good drama and intrigue. But then again, would it suit his character? How often does he actually visit the harem? I initially thought he didn’t go at all. If that’s the case, then maybe it wouldn’t make sense for him to have children.

[Iukan]

I believe that in this matter it would be better to think about the plot in general than about the protagonist, if Kaz didn’t have other children with someone from the harem, then our future child would be the only person legitimate to the throne, this would make everyone jealous of us and this can go into several different types of plots.

But the opposite would make the plot go in the direction of protecting our child from people they could see as a possible rival/threat, and this can literally go into several different types of plots, from try to make our child become the ruler, or try to run away with the child in fear of what might happen if we remain in the palace.I believe that in this matter it would be better to think about the plot in general than about the protagonist, if Kaz didn’t have other children with someone from the harem, then our future child would be the only person legitimate to the throne, this would make everyone jealous of us and this can go into several different types of plots, but the opposite would make the plot go in the direction of protecting our child from people they could see as a possible rival/threat, and this can literally go into several different types of plots, from try to make our child become the ruler, or try to run away with the child in fear of what might happen if we remain in the palace.

[bric]

It also adds an entirely new aspect of the story that would have to be worked in though, honestly. Because power struggles based on unhinged concubines trying to ensure they maintain or improve their position on the backs of their children usually mean you have to have murder and mayhem, or at least poisoning and forced abortions, in your harem. For me, personally, that sounds like a pain to consider and add into a story that wasn’t initially meant to go that direction

[Ramidel]

See, I thought that “power struggles based on unhinged concubines trying to ensure they maintain or improve their position on the backs of their children” was going to be the core conflict of this story. XD

[bric]

Fair, but I assumed not since the author said they’re still contemplating whether the Shah has kids with his concubines lol.

[Ramidel]

If he doesn’t yet, then he will have to. XD

[Lotta]

@Crazerk

I’ve also been going back and forth on a few things like whether or not to give Kaz children?

Overall, I thought that Kaz’s reluctance towards visiting harem and having children with multiple concubines due to what happened in past and how harem system works was an interesting part of his character and backstory. The conflict between expectations, duty as a Shah and his personal feelings/fears, the outside pressure etc. To me it seemed somewhat more refreshing in comparison to him just having a “little kindergarten of heirs”, like every other Shah. Obviously these are only my assumptions and impressions based on what little we know thus far. So I guess the question is what would suit better for Kaz as a character?

Now romance wise, it depends. I feel like in this case context and details could make a significant difference to me. On one hand, I can see how Kaz already having an heir could add some new subplot with extra drama and rivalry since both the child and their mother could become threats to MC and her children (if chosen). On the other hand my MC being “mother number 7 of child number 11” on the long harem list of my chosen RO isn’t exactly something that I would find very compelling or romantic…

[Crazerk]

You all bring up good points RE: Kaz having kids issue, especially about the characters and plots. I don’t think I have a character/plot problem but a reader satisfaction problem.

The thing is, right now the plot is still in its early stages. Same goes for the characters. I’ve outlined several drafts and in some Kaz has kids and in others he does not.

None of the major characters have been introduced yet, their arcs are still nascent and their backgrounds are still moldable. In fact the only thing that’s happened is the MC entering the harem so making changes right now will take some work but it won’t be a major hassle, just a matter of switching strategies which I can thankfully still do at this stage. If I couldn’t, I wouldn’t bring it up.

Right now I’m really thinking about player’s perspective. A philosophical rumination of balancing the story and player experience if you will. Writing a IF is quite different from a traditional novel and you have to consider and accommodate the fact that different people with different tastes will play.

Will giving an RO kids will make them feel like a secondary player on his route? Does it even matter? It’s not like his path is mandatory. But it could take away some enjoyment from people who would have otherwise liked to play his path.

@Lotta

my MC being “mother number 7 of child number 11” on the long harem list isn’t exactly something that I would find very compelling or romantic…

@bric

I also think, as he’s introduced now, he could easily be someone who has a harem and multiple wives in name only, but hasn’t actually… utilized them in that way.

Yep that’s how it’s meant to be read! I sort of bent over backwards to make that happen by developing his character with the whole purge/trauma aspect to his backstory. Originally he was meant to be… for lack of a better word, a slut. There was supposed to be an I can fix him x I can make her worse dynamic between him him and the Mc but then I realized I’m writing an IF and I need to make space for a myriad of playstyles. I also don’t want to take too much away from the MC’s relationship with him cause he is a RO and getting cockblocked by his whole other family is awkward, but then again it is expected for an emperor with a harem to have multiple children.

@Iukan

I believe that in this matter it would be better to think about the plot in general than about the protagonist, if Kaz didn’t have other children with someone from the harem, then our future child would be the only person legitimate to the throne,

Your children would have strong claims but they’ll not be the only ones with claims to the throne. And honestly they’re not above killing each other.

@Ashantiberry1

I personally think him having kids with other wives would be a good idea. The MC can have children, so I think it would make for good drama and intrigue. But then again, would it suit his character? How often does he actually visit the hare? I initially thought he didn’t go at all. If that’s the case, then maybe it wouldn’t make sense for him to have children.

I think it would make for great drama too! I can’t really answer for how it would suit his character because the answer is kinda “if I want it too” lol. I guess yes and no? Kaz is written to be someone who is dutiful so he would want to have heirs to secure the line of succession and the stability of the realm. Then again he’s written as someone with a lot of trauma regarding relationships and child making. And,TMI, his relationship with sex is really fucked no pun intended (we can thank Yaris for that)

@Ramidel

If he doesn’t yet, then he will have to. XD

I think it really boils down to this. He will have kids, he’s the Shah, he’s expected to.

Anyway here’s a drabble of Kaz being pestered about the heirs thing. I thinks right now it’s leaning towards no children and a ton of trauma.

Kaz’s day at the beach (not really the beach) ft a nagging about heirs

—-
The crystal waters of the Zar River shimmered under the scorching midday sun. Khazunef stood on the sandy banks, his piercing eyes surveying the bustling activity across the wide expanse. Scores of laborers toiled in the baking heat, erecting the foundations of his grand vision - a new city rising from the desert sands.

“The plans proceed without issue, your radiance,” Overseer Isnaad spoke in a low rumble beside him. The man mopped his brow with a square of tattered linen. “The aqueducts should reach the city center by the next month’s end.”

Kaz gave a curt nod, his expression shadowed beneath the silk canopy shading his features. His gaze settled on the meticulously drawn blueprints spread across the table -designs he had painstakingly crafted himself, and the product of countless nights spent hunched over candles and parchment. Universities, hospitals, public baths - all designed with reverent devotion.

A wry smile tugged at the corner of his lips as he imagined his father’s reaction. Shah Arzad would have scorned such amenities for the common folk as frivolous idealism. Peasants required only food, shelter, and soil to toil - anything more was an unnecessary indulgence in his view.

But Kaz’s jaw set with determination. He would not repeat his father’s mistakes, nor carry the same callous disregard for his people.

“Find me after evening prayers,” he told the overseer, rolling up the blueprints. “We must review plans for expanding the apothecary. I want its foundations laid before the summer’s end.”

Isnaad bobbed his head in deference before retreating, leaving Kaz alone with the whispers of the date palms lining the riverbanks. His city would bloom like a rose in this harsh desert expanse.

A shrill cawing overhead shattered his reverie. He squinted against the sun’s glare to glimpse the regal silhouette of his hunting falcon soaring high above. A faint smile curved his lips as he watched Cyrus soar and dive amidst the azure sky.

Khazunef envied the bird as he felt the familiar yearnings to slough off the weight of duty. Perhaps doing so would leave him light enough to soar through the vast desert skies. But the falcon would inevitably return, fierce talons gripping his armored fist, and the Shah’s shoulders would sag beneath that familiar, inescapable burden - the crushing responsibility of the jeweled crown.

“Your Majesty.” The familiar measured tones pulled his attention. Kaz turned to find Vizier Rubien approaching, his robes billowing in the arid breeze.

“Rubien!” The Shah’s face broke into a broad grin, warmth kindling in his eyes. For a fleeting moment, he was a carefree youth again, eager to share his passions and discoveries with his wise mentor. “Come, you must see the progress we’ve made!”

Sweeping an arm out, he gestured towards the bustling construction site where the new city took shape, brick by brick. Rubien’s mouth curved in an indulgent smile as he regarded his former pupil, his weathered features crinkling with amusement at the boyish enthusiasm radiating from his liege. “More the excitable prince than the careworn ruler I left behind, it seems.”

Kaz shrugged, unabashed by the gentle teasing. “The desert has a way of stripping away burdens of court.” He fell into step beside Rubien, guiding them towards a shaded pavilion where a simple yet inviting spread awaited.

“Indeed, Your Majesty,” the vizier replied, his deep voice a pool of calm. “Though I fear I bring word from the capital that cannot be ignored for long.”

Khazunef made a show of heaving a sigh, already dreading the reins of duty. “Must you always spoil my fun, old friend?” he teased, the affectionate jibe slipping out with easy familiarity.

Rubien’s mouth twitched. “The realm does not govern itself. And your mother specifically bade me remind you not to skip meals again.”

Kaz’s brows knit slightly at the mention of his mother. “She worries too much,” he muttered.

“As all good mothers do,” Rubien countered mildly. “Especially when their son insists on burying himself in this desert rather than returning to the capital.”

The gentle rebuke struck a nerve, and Khazunef felt that familiar sense of defensiveness rise within him - an automatic reaction against the court that still saw him as an interloper on the throne. His jaw tightened, but he held his tongue, focusing instead on the planks of teakwood beneath their feet.

“Tell me,” he said at last, keeping his tone light. “Has Parvis burned the empire down yet?”

Rubien chuckled, the sound startling a nearby bird into startled flight. “Your mother would never allow it,” he replied, allowing a hint of wry humor to soften his demeanor. “Though she did send this for your headaches.” From the folds of his robes, he produced a small, intricately carved wooden box.

Khazunef accepted it with a nod, recognizing the mix of dried herbs inside - his mother’s special blend of soothing tea. A pang of fondness and guilt pricked at him. Perhaps he had been neglecting more than just his meals of late.

They settled into the plush cushions. Pomegranate seeds and honeyed dates were plucked from ornate platters, their sweet juices mingling with the pungent aroma of spiced meats and teas. The niceties of court life flowed with practiced ease between Shah and Grand Vizier.

“Your consorts send their regards, your majesty,” he remarks, his tone carefully neutral. “Nimeda in particular was most insistent that I convey her continued devotion and affection.”

Khazunef nods, a flicker of something like guilt crossing his handsome features. “I will have to entertain them soon,” he murmurs, more to himself than to Rubien. “And what of Yaris?” The name slipped out more from habit than genuine interest.

If Rubien detected the perfunctory tone, he did not remark upon it, instead offering a polite smile. “She is well, your majesty. She spends her days overseeing the royal household and tending to her charitable works, as always.”

Khazunef made a noncommittal noise, his attention already drifting elsewhere. But Rubien was not so easily deterred. He cleared his throat, his dark eyes fixed intently on the Shah’s face.

“Your mother says she grows idle,” he begins, drawing the young Shah’s attention back to him. “She believes it would do her good to have children.”

Khazunef’s fingers tightened around the gilded cup in his hand at the vizier’s words. The sweet aroma of mint tea suddenly felt cloying in his nostrils. He took a measured sip before setting it aside, his movements precise and deliberate.

“And what, pray tell, does my mother know of my wife’s desires?” he asked, a hard edge creeping into his tone despite his best efforts. “Or of mine, for that matter?”

Rubien held up a placating hand. “Peace, Your Radiance. I merely convey the Valide’s sentiments out of duty. The choice, as ever, remains yours and Yaris’s alone.”

Kaz exhaled through his nose, feeling the tension bleed out of his shoulders. “I should not take my frustrations out on the messenger.” He massaged his temples, suddenly feeling the weight of his twenty-six years pressing down upon him. “You know how she dotes on Parvis’s brood.” A wry, humorless smile tugged at his lips. “No doubt she despairs of me ever giving her grandchildren to spoil.”

“The Valide loves you, Khazunef,” Rubien said gently. “She only wants to see you happy and secure upon the Throne.”

“By siring an army of heirs?” Kaz shook his head. “What other happiness could be found in a marriage of duty?”

The words tasted bitter on his tongue. His marriage to Yaris had been yet another chain shackled upon him by the court, a bride selected for her impeccable pedigree and power - a perfect consort to bolster the inexperienced, unexpected heir’s claim to the throne. The same could be said for his remaining consorts. A wife sent to him every time a trade route needed securing or an alliance needed forming.

“An heir would go a long way to securing your reign,” Rubien pointed out, not unkindly. “The court still whispers, Kaz. They look at your uncle and his growing brood and wonder…”

“If they wouldn’t prefer a purebred shah to a half-foreign usurper?” Khazunef finished sardonically.

Rubien did not contradict him. Silence stretched between them for a long moment, heavy with unspoken truths.

“It need not be Yaris,” he said at length, watching Khazunef carefully over the rim of his teacup. “New beauties have been added to your harem as well. Each lovelier than the last, or so I’m told.”

Khazunef’s jaw tightened imperceptibly at Rubien’s words, a muscle jumping in his cheek. He leaned back against the cushions, his eyes hooded and unreadable as he considered the vizier’s suggestion.

“Is that my mother’s solution then?” he asked, a hint of bitterness lacing his tone. “To tempt me with pretty concubines until I sire a son?”

Rubien set down his cup, his expression carefully neutral. “The Valide seeks only to remind you of the…options available to you, Your Radiance. As Shah, you have the right to take pleasure where you will.”

Kaz exhaled heavily through his nose. “A right my father exercised with great enthusiasm.”

The words hung in the air between them, heavy with unspoken history. Shah Arzad’s prodigious appetites were well known, his harem a revolving door of beauties from across the empire, each vying for the chance to bear the next heir to the throne.

But Khazunef had seen the pain and humiliation etched into his mother’s face, the shame of being cast aside, her womb deemed inadequate for failing to produce another son after him. He remembered the loneliness that had radiated from her, the way she had clung to him, her only child, as her only solace.

He remembers his half-brothers, and his face darkens.

“I will not be my father, Rubien,” he said at last, his voice low but resolute. “I will not collect women like trinkets, to be discarded when they no longer please me.”

The vizier inclined his head, a glimmer of something like approval in his dark eyes. “As you say, Your Radiance. But the fact remains - the realm needs an heir. Your position is not yet secure.”

Khazunef’s lips thinned, the weight of the crown pressing down upon him like a physical force. He knew Rubien spoke the truth - knew that every day he failed to produce a son was another day for his enemies to whisper and scheme, to plot to supplant him with Parvis or one of his cousin’s growing brood of purebred princes.

But the thought of laying with Yaris, of forcing himself to perform the act of duty in the hopes of begetting an heir…it filled him with a visceral revulsion. There was no love between them, no spark of passion or affection. At times he felt his wife had the warmth of a viper.

“I will consider it,” he said at last, the words leaden on his tongue. “But not yet. There are more pressing matters to attend to first.”

He gestured to the sprawling construction site before them, the foundations of his dream rising from the desert sands. “My legacy will be built on more than just blood, Rubien. This city…it will be a mark upon history.”

Rubien inclined his head, something like pride warming his features. “A worthy endeavor, Your Radiance. One that will be remembered long after we are dust.”

They finished their meal in contemplative silence, each man lost in his own thoughts. As the servants cleared away the empty dishes, Khazunef rose, his embroidered robes sweeping the rich carpets.

“I have tarried here overlong. My presence is required back at the capital.” His mouth twisted wryly. “The realm awaits its Shah, after all.”

Rubien stood as well, falling into step beside him as they made their way back to the waiting horses. “And the Shah shall never fail his realm.”

Kaz hoped, with a desperate, fierce sort of pride, that his old mentor was right. That he could be the ruler his people deserve.

—-

Anyway I just wanted to share my thoughts on what I was dealing with regarding the plot progression. Your thoughts have been helpful, and give me much to think about!

[bric]

@Crazerk

I thinks right now it’s leaning towards no children and a ton of trauma.

That definitely makes sense with his backstory!. He could be completely averse to even continuing his family line because of what he saw happen when it was his time to lead.

[hellanikthi]

Just to throw a curveball, have you considered Kaz has been trying for heirs unsuccessfully? That would retain realism without adding a bunch of kids to kill off. There could also be some drama there with women trying to get pregnant by other men just to pretend they’ve birthed a genuine heir. Many cultures throughout history blame the woman even if it’s the man who’s infertile, which could add even more drama potential and increase the stakes for all concubines.

As a player, I personally don’t super buy Kaz being uninterested in beautiful naked women thrown at him, especially when he’s told it’s his duty to enjoy himself with them. Maybe I just have a skewed perception of history and princes, but it’s hard for me to believe in a relatively chaste prince in this scenario.

[bric]

@hellanikthi

have you considered Kaz has been trying for heirs unsuccessfully

This idea bugs me more than him just sloring it up with his harem tbh.

Edit: also, he has childhood trauma, succession trauma, and apparently trauma somehow associated with his (first?) wife, so I would definitely buy him not wanting any parts in the harem. Just because he’s a young prince (who was thrusted into his position, btw) doesn’t mean he has to be stereotypical.

[Fatemafehan]

Hello Sorry,
I came up with an idea, but you might find it kind of ridiculous, but what if our character was walking in the gardens and looking at flowers and hir favorite type of flowers after a long day of lessons, and at the same time in a very strange and rare way, the Shah meets in our MC and her, but the MC does not notice his presence?
On the other day, when the Shah could not manage to put MC out of his mind, he decided to visit the harem for a surprise visit and ask for MC, and everyone was surprised by this, even Shira, Yaris, and the Shah’s mother as well.
I don’t know what you think of this or how do you planned for ouer MC to meet the Shah
My Opinion in this Case that, you can let it for the Pleier to chose, I mean like a Choice or an Option.
In the End I think you will make the write decision for your Game and it will be good and we all will love it. The Choices are all in your Hands and it is yours.

[Anna_B]

I have an idea that would allow for his want/need for heirs to not conflict with his complicated relationship with sex (thus giving him heirs before our potential child):

What if he has a child or children with only one of his wife’s? Maybe he feels a duty towards his first wife? Or he has a first love who he has a child with? Or one of his marriages gave the kingdom (empire? Nation?) a very important alliance, and he needed to lock it down more concretely?

I think any of these would add drama without it starting to feel weird for us or out of character for him

[Ramidel]

I think at this point it might be best for him not to have children yet, which leaves the field wide open. He hasn’t been doing it with his harem, but he also has an obligation to sire heirs. And if the PC doesn’t secure his love very quickly and successfully and produce early, he’ll have to make an heir with someone else…

[Anna_B]

And also, I found this bug

[hellanikthi]

@bric

also, he has childhood trauma, succession trauma, and apparently trauma somehow associated with his (first?) wife, so I would definitely buy him not wanting any parts in the harem. Just because he’s a young prince (who was thrusted into his position, btw) doesn’t mean he has to be stereotypical.

Right, I forgot about the trauma. Now that you mention it I recall having the same reaction reading through (not believing it then “oh, okay! Makes sense!”).

I would disagree though that sleeping around would make him stereotypical. IRL that’s the stereotype, sure, but in the world of stories the royal who wants to marry for love is definitely a common trope. That’s not precisely what’s happening here, but there are similarities.

BTW I don’t necessarily think anything should change, I just find it helpful hearing how readers react even if I don’t incorporate every suggestion. This just happens to be a quirk of mine, where I tend to assume the worst of characters in historical settings I guess I’m a chronological snob that way

[Crazerk]

@Fatemafehan

I came up with an idea, but you might find it kind of ridiculous, but what if our character was walking in the gardens and looking at flowers and hir favorite type of flowers after a long day of lessons, and at the same time in a very strange and rare way, the Shah meets in our MC and her, but the MC does not notice his presence?

That is such a cute idea! The image of MC being surrounded by flowers will be something Kaz won’t forget any time soon. As for it’s implementation… I think I know exactly where to put it. The only thing is I can’t promise all readers will get that scene.

@Fatemafehan

On the other day, when the Shah could not manage to put MC out of his mind, he decided to visit the harem for a surprise visit and ask for MC, and everyone was surprised by this, even Shira, Yaris, and the Shah’s mother as well.
I don’t know what you think of this or how do you planned for ouer MC to meet the Shah
My Opinion in this Case that, you can let it for the Pleier to chose, I mean like a Choice or an Option.

I don’t want to spoil anything but… this is very close to what I have planned. I can’t give the player the option of how or if they meet him, sorry that’s cannon but I can give the player free reign on how they want to develop the relationship.

@bric

Edit: also, he has childhood trauma, succession trauma, and apparently trauma somehow associated with his (first?) wife, so I would definitely buy him not wanting any parts in the harem. Just because he’s a young prince (who was thrusted into his position, btw) doesn’t mean he has to be stereotypical.

Bro is a trauma magnet and yes Yaris is his first wife and yes she has contributed to the list of reasons he needs therapy.

@Anna_B

I have an idea that would allow for his want/need for heirs to not conflict with his complicated relationship with sex (thus giving him heirs before our potential child):

What if he has a child or children with only one of his wife’s? Maybe he feels a duty towards his first wife? Or he has a first love who he has a child with? Or one of his marriages gave the kingdom (empire? Nation?) a very important alliance, and he needed to lock it down more concretely?

I think any of these would add drama without it starting to feel weird for us or out of character for him

@Ramidel

I think at this point it might be best for him not to have children yet, which leaves the field wide open. He hasn’t been doing it with his harem, but he also has an obligation to sire heirs. And if the PC doesn’t secure his love very quickly and successfully and produce early, he’ll have to make an heir with someone else…

I do agree with both of these. It would make sense for him to at least try in the past when he was still a prince because don’t forget- this shah thing is a recent gig. So what if he had a child but they died? What if all of his Kids are girls and the pressure is really for him to have a son? Or what if one of his consorts is currently pregnant? After all being with child doesn’t mean anything until she gives birth and so many accidents could befall a pregnant woman…

@hellanikthi

I just find it helpful hearing how readers react even if I don’t incorporate every suggestion.

Same! This discussion has given me a lot to mull over. It’s nice to see the different views on the issue of heirs, and I hope to find a solution that makes the most sense whilst allowing for the player to still feel heard.