Using in-world mechanics or procedures to implement or Integrate Trans MC's into stories where they don't have access to medical procedures

Game Development Writing and Content
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I’ll try to explain what i meant first

There are lots of fictional settings, and stories, where having a trans MC becomes sort of odd, because of the lack of procedures, or lack of access to them

A medieval fantasy setting for example, or a story where the main cast are Teens for majority of the story

There is the obvious solution to just hand-wave it away, i find that to be quite too lazy, so i was brainstorming ideas about how would one go about solving the problems

Lets take the latter case for a minute, the story has majority of the main cast, including the MC be teens throughout the story, so obviously they couldn’t have gone through complete transition yet since they’re not old enough for it yet

There is the possibility of going for presentation option, as in how the MC chooses to present themselves

Of course, if you’re going for trying to make your story Realistic, you’d need to add the transition process, or hiccups with ROs with specific sexuality, limiting Trans MC’s options, which i don’t want

One solution, i had, was to leverage the world’s mechanics if they narratively fit the world, to use procedures exclusive to that world, to solve the limitation or accessibility problem for Trans MC’s, regardless of if they’re in a medieval fantasy setting, or a teen story

Few examples could be, a cyberpunk like world, which has invented more accessible transition procedures, safely working on teens as well

Or a magical ritual in a fantasy setting, which is able to do the same

Obviously, this is including the fact that these methodologies must be implemented and integrated into the world themselves, rather than just being a plot device to integrate Trans MCs easily

One idea, i had was about, was like the possibility of actual background subplot to add to the world building of the world, where such Magical Procedures, or Advanced Medical procedures, are being debated about for their moral, ethical, and anatomical dilemmas

Looking into another angle of differences, between a character who didn’t have to go through the normal medical process of Transitioning over a long period, instead being either grateful for the privilege of this easier procedure

Or guilt of seeing others go through the normal experience of transitioning, while they were able to skip through it

Obviously the latter half being a internal sub plot, because the main goal for this is to make sure Trans Players can experience these stories without detracting from the main narrative too much

I just wanna know, if people would be alright with it

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Sure! It’s hard to sort of give feedback on whether I’d be OK with it without knowing specifics and seeing how something is written in-game itself, but in general I enjoy seeing games in which you can play as a trans character and it’s integrated into the setting.

I made a blog post and thread a little while back and they and the discussion may be of interest!

In my WIP The Earth Has Teeth, there are magical herbs that are the equivalent to HRT which are accessible to the PC and NPCs, but the PC has had access to some surgeries that most NPCs haven’t due to where they live; I’ve had positive feedback on how I’ve written that.

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My main worry is to not undermine or oversimplify the actual experience people who actually go through medical procedures in real life

Like, not to make it feel like just a cheap way to include Trans MCs into a story, while also not detracting from the main plot of the story

For example, if a story set in a traditional shounen is written, focusing too much on how trans MC are included in like a Black Clover setting can make the Players feel like they’re going a different story, while focusing too less would just make it feel like a hand waved plot device just to be inclusive

Especially since, i’m not experienced in this stuff myself, so i don’t want to offend anyone

I’ll check out the link you mentioned, thx

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It’s simple:

You don’t need to have had THE SURGERY to be trans. You don’t have to be over 18 to be trans. Not in fiction, not in real life.

Trans people have existed in real life as long as humans existed (you can even make a case for various religions, including the abrahamic ones including people under the trans umbrella)

Best advice therefore: Leave the idea that in order to be trans the surgery etc are a necessity (hell, that even things like body dysphoria are a necessity), read up on people under the trans umbrella irl and go from there.

Giving the player option to have their character fully or partially transition is a plus, but to make it a requirement is not a good thing.

As for the more plain elements like how the character (MC or NPC) presents themself comes down to what society etc in the world are like.

But to say ‘where they don’t fit’ is a slippery slope with spikes on the end

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I’m not talking about making it a requirement necessarily, i apologise if it came off the wrong way

I know you don’t need surgery to be trans, or 18 too

Another factor, i wanted to address were the romances

I personally prefer writing gender and sexuality locked characters

Lets take a Female RO for example, who prefers women, sure you can easily have the romance play out based on presentation, and without surgery, without ever addressing the contradiction of MC not being transitioned

I find that to be off though, i thought about making the routes for Trans Players more nuanced in this aspect by addressing this in character in the relationship, or adding Trans specific ROs

But both of those solutions feel like they’re unnecessarily deviating the main plot for Trans MC’s, as a sort of Punishment

I’m not trying to attack anyone, just looking for solutions

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This is a really hard question to answer, but I’ll try to give my thoughts the best I can. The main thing I think when trying to be inclusive, toward anybody, is to be sincere.

In Cyberpunk, sex and gender don’t matter. Not even in the slightest. You can be anyone, kill anyone, and do anything. At the end of the day, everybody is just trying to get up in the morning, choom.

If you take a magical world, with actual provable magic, then at least one person has thought about using it for a sex change. Whether they succeeded or not, and whether it’s even possible with the magic in that world, who knows. But at least someone tried it. Maybe, that someone can be the MC.

I truly think that whatever you do, you just have to do it with heart. It seems like, you’re worried about the experience of the trans MC, and I really think that maybe the best way to do it, is to not change a thing.

The best way to make a person feel normal, is to treat them as normal. If your ROs aren’t okay with a trans character, make it clear. I feel that most people don’t mind, if they know off the start that they can’t romance a character. But if they don’t know, and have to find out mid-game they can’t romance the character they’ve come to like, just because of who they are?

That kills a game.

Be sincere.

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That’s honestly, my main goal, or to be exact, make the experience of Trans players the same as any other player, regardless of gender

That is why, i’m also worried about making the “magical” solution to Transitioning be some ritual or advanced technology, because it feels undermining to people who have gone through transitioning, for simplifying their experience so much

I do agree, maybe i might just hand wave it away at the end of the day, instead of tackling something, i’m not ready for, or knowledgeable in yet

Edit:

Yeah, that may have sounded wrong, i didn’t genuinely mean anything by it though Edit: I’ve changed it Thx for letting me know

From a storytelling perspective, i think it depends on the type of story i’m writing

If i’m writing a story for just fun, and being entertaining to read, i think the emotional aspect is and should be the main focus

If i’m writing a story, trying to make it as realistic as possible, i don’t really like hand waving complications away like physical incompatibility, etc

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You should perhaps go and rephrase the initial post and title then, because those certainly make it sound as if you’re saying that the surgery etc are requirements to be trans (what with the ‘where they normally don’t fit’ and all).

that said, ask yourself the question first and foremost: What’s the most important factor of a relationship?

It all boils down to fleshing out the characters: when it comes to sex, what is it that arouses them. the MC or their junk?

I’ve seen a lot of folks that like the idea of having equivalents to hormones etc in the stories, but as plenty folks here and in similar discussions said, it shouldn’t become the main focus of a trans character (MC or NPC) because it can easily become alienating and condescending.

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Don’t focus on the physical aspects of transition. Many human societies have acknowledged what we would consider trans identities, without any hormonal or surgical intervention whatsoever. And most people who have medically transitioned don’t think of that as the defining aspect of their trans-ness.

Unless you’re writing explicit sex scenes - not just open-door lovemaking, but graphic depictions of particular sex acts - it’s probably not a great idea to focus too much on what body parts people have anyway. Most trans people think that what kind of genitals they have is none of your business, unless you’re their doctor or their lover. And if you’re writing about characters too young to surgically transition, we definitely don’t need to know about their genitals.

If you want to write trans characters who fit in your setting, figure out what it’s like to be trans in your setting. This can involve research, worldbuilding, or both.

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To be honest?

For anyone who had, is, or will, transition, I would bet the vast majority wish there was a one stop shop, “And it’s done now.” in the real world. Having the option for their character to just instantly and effectively transition, is likely one of the most enticing choices ever put in front of them.

This here is the crux; What story are you writing?

Because that answers this question pretty quickly.

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Just on a small off topic tangent: Thank you for wording what I tried to say so much better. (I need more sleep. 2 hours was a mistake)

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Also to your point, uh, the Greeks.

Being trans was known thing to the bloody Greeks. It was literally as simple to them as saying that feel differently inside, than your outside body. They explained it away as Apollo being drunk, when creating you. It was pretty simple really, continue to be a good citizen, and you could be whatever you say you are.

They really were ahead of their time in some things.

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The answer to this stuff is almost always: you’re thinking too hard about this. Trans people have existed in one form or another in basically every culture throughout history with a variety of roles and methods of transition. The idea that a trans person’s life experience must be so alien that it demands a total derailment of the plot is as strange as suggesting the same is true of a cis man versus a cis woman. Unless you’re writing a story where gender roles take central prominence, you can add it as a character creation option that gets a sprinkling of mentions (a hormone regimen during downtime or fantastical equivalent, solidarity with other queer characters, maybe a twinge of dysphoria as appropriate, so on) and otherwise move on with your story. It doesn’t need a whole melodrama (unless you want the story to be about that), you can just include it as a detail.

Re: ROs and sexual incompatibilities, I would shy away from this. Unless your ROs are very picky about other character traits, there is very little to be gained by adding this sort of content except making trans players feel bad. Unless you yourself are trans/have sexual experience with trans people, I would recommend you handwave this issue where necessary over trying to make it A Thing.

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That is actually my main problem, more than anything, normally i genuinely don’t mind hand waving this away

But as i mentioned before depending on the type of story, i’m writing

If its meant to be somewhat realistic, i find hand waving it away to be unsatisfying, though it very well can be done

That’s sort of why, i’m looking for a solution, where it can be avoided entirely, without limiting the Player’s options just because they don’t have access to medical procedures in the story

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Look.

I see what you’re getting at, and it’s something I’ve been thinking about a lot too when it comes to the mode advanced medical tech of the Fallen Hero world. People do interact with it in different ways, for example Mortum went all in, but Sidestep is for very good reasons hesitant to do certain things, due to their own issues.

The thing is, and please don’t take this the wrong way, as someone who has had very vocal playtesters, and who has been working hard on introducing a lot of sexuality/gender variability in my game, a little goes a long way.

Let me explain. The more you get into detail about a thing, the more details appear. For example, when I started working on the aromantic/asexual variants (something I am not familiar with) it quickly escalated. So many playtesters who were the various shades of demi, ace, aro, grey, I don’t even remember all variants, had often differing viewpoints on how to handle things. What for me looked like a simple way to make things more inclusive went off the rails into discussions about how to formulate certain sentences, and what to name the various preferences.

In short, one single segment suddenly would have had a TON of details, that would maybe have been reference in game a handful of times. At the same time, none of the other orientations had that. The asymmetry was obvious, and quite frankly, didn’t even solve the issue! Because once I detailed something, people saw what was not included.

So I backed off and tried to identify the root of the issue. And that was the Herald path, and the fact that Sidestep could be obviously physically attracted to him in more obvious ways than for many of the other RO’s. And that clashed with many, who still wanted to romance him, but felt the way it was done clashed with what they saw their characters as. So in the end I settled for two simple fixes to the root problem: Adding a ‘hrny’ variable that controlled more obvious expressions of physical lust. And, adding a different name to one of the romance stats. “Oh no, I like him” instead of “oh no, he’s hot.” And that, while not perfect, was enough to let people imagine the rest, without going into detail.

IF you go too deep into logistical, realistic, and detailed description of the minutiae of the trans experience, you run the risk of saying things you don’t mean. Like ‘you need to have the operation to really be trans’ and so on. I don’t think you mean that, but I think you can already see from the comments how easy it is to imply things you don’t mean because people bring their own experiences and baggage into these discussions. I applaud what you are trying to do, to give options and depth instead of just having a single mention at character creation and then never again. But you need to be aware on how it can escalate. So let’s talk about trans and fixed sexuality RO’s.

Steel. Yep, he’s gay. So I needed to sit down and think what he was attracted to. But, here is the thing, my issue was never with trans men. I acknowledge that with some comments in the less safe for work scenes, My biggest issue was trying to figure out the whole genderqueer/agender/non-binary spectrum. What would be be attracted to there? I didn’t want to invalidate his gay identity, but I also didn’t see him as a ‘only real macho men needs to apply’ kind of guy. In fact, that spun of into a whole separate discussion where he and Sidestep could talk about these things. A different reaction than if Sidestep had been a man or a woman. And in the end, I think the only part of the non-binary spectrum he wouldn’t go for was those that specifically picked a ‘feminine presentation.’ This was a thing I spent a LOT of time working with, for one single scene that took about five minutes to read.

So. Here is my advice. Try to focus on the heart of the matter. Do you want to add these details to let the players feel seen? If so, focus more on actually talking about these things in the story rather than working out the logistics (that only leads to more logistics). Because let’s be fair here, unless you are writing All-World Pro Wrestling, chances are it won’t matter what kind of genitals your characters have. Is it really important whether a RO really cares about the details about what in the pants? If so, should perhaps other things be detailed more as well? Size? This… this can get complicated fast.

Go for the big picture. The broad strokes. Work on having the text itself make people seen. I think that will make people picking a trans path happier than having to detail exactly where on the scape from presentation-hormones-operations their character is. It might feel more like filling out a form, and even worse, having to pass a test if some RO’s only like you if you are an 8/10 on the transition scale…

Focus on the core problem you want to solve first. What is your intent. Don’t worlbuild things that’s not necessary, that will only reveal holes everywhere else.

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Hi, Trans woman here. A good bit of advice in this forum though I feel I should suggest an extra avenue or option and that is one where, particularly if the world does not have an overt focus on traditional gender roles or limited access to medical procedures. To have an option at least to be someone who has transitioned already without a constant indicator or mention of being someone who is trans.

This is naturally just my opinion as one singular trans person. But if the world is not one that is oppressive in that end (think cyberpunk or more free form magical one). I would far more prefer to just have it be declared during the character creation bit and then to continue from there as the gender your character identifies with as to me, these indicators of being trans, (HRT, moments of dysphoria) are less neat additions to represent me and more reminders that I was not born the way that I identify and that I would be forever different even through procedures. Which would be pretty less than ideal.

Of course a simple solution for that is to simply pick a cisgender option from the start. But I feel like having that option is about as much representation as I would feel comfortable to have in a run of my own in a world that doesnt have a focus on gender.

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Conversely with the medical side of things, I’d be wary of inadvertently putting across the idea of “medical transition is not a requirement to be trans = trans people shouldn’t want or need physical changes”.

I don’t personally enjoy playing as a trans man and being given explicit scenes for cis women, for example - but that may not even be a factor if explicit scenes aren’t a thing.

In general though I’m inclined to agree with people who have said a little thought/references go a long way. I think you’re thinking about it the right way, for example that in a cyberpunk world it would feel strange for cis people to be changing their bodies in lots of ways but for trans people not to (even/especially if the wider society is oppressive).

With romance compatibility, to me that really depends on how it’s handled, what romanceable characters are available for cis vs trans characters, etc.

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Realistically, people can just get over/work around any genital aversion they might have. Are you having this same issue thinking of ways to ‘realistically’ allow characters of color to date ROs with a racial preference, or to ‘realistically’ allow tall characters to be with short ROs who don’t want to date with a height gap? Just because something happens in real life doesn’t mean it needs to be included. If an RO is, well, a romantic option, they presumably like the player character, and like them enough to want to sleep with them. There are a thousand ways that a trans woman and a cis woman can have an intimate relationship without getting any penises involved anywhere, this is purely a failure of imagination. I suggest getting creative with other holes (or just fading to black and letting players fill in the blanks with their imaginations).

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Yeah, my main goal, is actually to have the stories be as accessible to everyone as possible, without losing realism, but by reading everyone’s points, i think having both is sort of impossible, if you’re not yourself heavily into these subjects

For my own intent, i feel like, going with standard logic might be better after all the talks, because as i said, i don’t want anyone to feel left out, or like they’re being forced to play a different game than others just because of their identity

Going into the details of topics like these, feels like something to tackle when i have more experience, and knowledge on the matter

I have played FH many times, and i genuinely can’t expect to match the same level of nuances for different players as there are in FH, anytime soon

Thx for the detailed explanation

I probably should’ve mentioned this, i don’t plan for any graphic sex scenes anyways, so fade to black, and such are actually what i do plan to go for

In hindsight, i was probably overthinking the details too much, so you’re right about it not mattering there

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What story ARE you writing?! If you want it to be realistic, make it realistic and take everything that comes with it. Accept that it can be uncomfortable, and work to show it, especially how people resolve that uncomfortableness in life.

If you don’t want it to be realistic, don’t! Hand wave it however you want, do whatever you want, it’s your story! But first, you have to know what kind of story you’re telling.

I would like to take a quick second, to mention, you are getting a lot of replies, and in quick order of each other. This is not your fault, nobody is mad at you, do not be overwhelmed, we just all really want to talk about this.

It’s something, a lot of us, have thought a lot about.

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