I prefer small, personally. This doesn’t mean I think big endings shouldn’t exist, and I see the appeal, but to be honest I am sick to death of “epic” world-changing stories, and would love to see more that just focused on one city. Someone brought up Marvel and for my view, YES the epic stuff loses me, it’s why I prefer the Netflix series to the movies.
My main peeve is that as someone who prefers small stories, it feels like so often authors or showrunners or storytellers in games feel like they HAVE to make it more big or more epic, and it ends up falling flat or feeling tacked on. Also, as the story opens up to more epicness, it tends to stop focusing on the things I care about - how many stories I can think of where the main character’s friendships from Book 1 of a trilogy are barely mentioned by book 3 or 4 because it’s all about huge plot stuff, and what drew me in is basically gone.
As for the revolution plotline - I am totally OK with it in something like Choice of Rebels where that is what the game is about, but agree with others it often feels tacked on. Also, I hate feeling like the author always wants the MC to go revolution, and that it feels baked in as the “correct” choice. Because so much media does this I usually will try as hard as I can to go “establishment” to see if they’ll let me. So often it feels like the author is trying to push hard their own “yay, revolution, topple the government” feelings on me and it makes me try to go in the opposite direction. I also REALLY appreciate storylines where the ruling class is not just presented as evil in really stereotypical ways. Flawed, sure, but the “establishment bad, revolutionaries good” thing is kinda played out for me and I want to see it done differently. Not every time in every stop, but I am very tired of certain tropes that come up again and again.
It’s like most stories that are set in a different world feel the need to have it be “about” breaking down a dystopia, but there are plenty of stories set on Earth that don’t require that to be a part of the storyline and it’s not like we’re in a utopia here. Would love to play more in different worlds without having to Fix Everything.
you guys talking about stories branching into something different…yet the title say ‘ending’ . How confusing…
regardless . hum…
if we are talking about a story , where it start say for exemple about an investigation that seem simple enough . then BOUM! out of nowhere…its about the end of the world! its Larger then you though and you are caught in the middle !!! there is nowhere to run , only forward to go and only you can stop this before it happen !
that kind of thing ? There are a few games that did that…fallout NV for exemple , Avernum 4 .
and I dropped the game mid way . I dunno , I was so into that beginning…then BANG! this thing about bigger then you yada yada…it just killed the whole fun I was having .
I dont mind if its big from the beginning . But when it switch mid way ? I get dissapointed…and there is a disconnection…like…I got lied to and I didn’t sign up for this…I’m out .
I suppose this is a little self-serving, but I’m curious how folks who played Werewolves: Haven Rising feel about the raising of stakes there and what I could do better to fit the kind of narrative flow that people are looking for. I only ask because Haven Rising is about revolution, but on a micro-scale, as opposed to world-wide. I also made it pretty clear in the game’s advertising copy that revolution and revolt were in the cards from the get-go, but after reading this thread I’m curious about how those elements might have been received.
I have already talked about the depression i ended because game was railroad to not allowing a peaceful route as all fmgame seemed possible I ended with the achievement pacifism but in a slaughter with all my clan death. Very well written but i don’t like any ending at all.as all felt railroad snd with my character behaving weird. Still i want play the sequel
~nods~ I remember that feedback, it’s actually why I asked here. I mean, the thing I was going for was different than most games. The MC isn’t a glowing savior who the world revolves around. They’re just a normal werewolf with a little more influence than their peers who can shape people’s lives, but also gets caught up in things beyond their control. Which is why it’s possible to be a pacifist (and get that hard to get achievement) but still have to survive the war.
Did anyone else feel this way? I’m trying to be much more open in what can be done in book 2, but of course there are limits so I have to choose what I spend my time on wisely.
Glad to hear it! I’ve been spending a lot of time reading the forums to see what people like and don’t like in game design, so hopefully the sequel will be able to integrate what has been learned and be a better game for it.
I felt that the focus on the MC as the center point for your story kept the story on the “small side” for volume one.
It had a very “Red Badge of Courage” by Stephan Crane vibe to it and overall, I felt that fit well.
As far as the sequel goes - from your denouement’s implementation, I get a sense we are about to embark on a bigger ending sequel.
My worry, as a tester, is that the same issues people have with @Eric_Moser’s CCH2 going from a small ending scope to a big ending experience will provoke the same readers anxiety or dislike.
Remember, despite some not enjoying the shift, others have and to my knowledge, @Eric_Moser’s second game is still doing well in sales and reviews etc…
My feedback as a tester here is: Try to keep the focus on the MC for consistency from volume one to volume two. This is your best chance at keeping everyone happy.
If were writing a sequel, I’d actually strive to keep the small focus throughout the series. The expectations were set for the small ending with volume one.
Despite warnings and foreshadowing and advertising a switch, your audience will look inward to their experiences and expectations set from the first game.
This is the kind of in-depth response I was hoping for–thank you!
Re: book 2, the stakes DO get higher, but I’m trying to keep the same ‘grounded’ MC-focused style as the first one, keeping to the theme of growing up in an increasingly chaotic world and needing to make the best out of a tough situation while keeping your friends and yourself alive.
While everything gets bigger and consequence more dire, the focus is planned to be inward, on character growth even while huge things are happening around you where full control is impossible. When I pitched Werewolves 2, I introduced a new personality stat, Free-willed / Dutiful, and plan on an overarching theme of fate VS free will.
I’ll be taking this advice to heart and stay the course on character-driven storytelling.
Yeah, things have worked out okay. No real regrets! I wanted to include as much of the universe as possible within the trilogy, and I’ll definitely accomplish that!
Like everyone else, I have more ideas than time, and I finally have a realistic idea for taking future CCH stories into a more episodic/smaller stakes format, but we’ll see how it pans out.
I actually prefer a mix of both: maybe have one “big” ending, with a handful of “small” ones, but it also depends on the game.
Now I realize that’s confusing; to rephrase, maybe have one “big” world-changing ending (that’d be the story’s main plot), and some “small” variables which don’t directly the ending but are mentioned in the final chapter or epilogue, like the fate of an NPC.
I like it when stories have a clear, defined goal that the protagnist, (or in this case player I guess) is working towards and it doesn’t go super crazy like, for example, being connected to ancient gods making you the chosen one that will save the world. It’s just boring now that it’s been done so many times and it shows a lack of creativity in my opinion.
On the other hand, when the story is so simple and small, it can be boring, because there’s nothing going on, no real tension or action.
It depends on the size and styleof the game. If you have something absolutely massive and based on epic westerns like Tin Star, then you can go for a big-ish ending (in this case, describing the fates of the characters you met and the fate of lander county in the epilogue). If you have a more personal game, like The Grim and I, a more personal, small ending is better (which The Grim and I had by the way, you should do play that if you haven’t, it’s fantastic).
The cop-out answer here is: if it’s a well written story that makes me feel invested in the characters and the world as a whole, then I’m satisfied.
If I had to choose though, I’d go with the smaller, more limited ending. I think it lends a greater sense of “realness” to a fictional world if the struggles of the protagonist and a handful of supporting characters can play out in true dramatic fashion, while for the rest of the world, it’s a Tuesday.
Epics should be suitably epic, of course, but there’s something to be said for a more narrow, focused approach.
I agree with the part about being satisfied as long as a story is well written, but I think that stories that have a larger impact on the world are more impactful and entertaining. It doesn’t have to be the whole world of course, but it could be something that affects the area that the character lives in. Going back to my example of Tin Star, your choices have an effect, not only on the supporting characters, but the future of Lander County as a whole, which makes you think a lot more about your actions as Marshal.
I liked Lost heir. In the end my goal was still the same. 1- retake my throne and kingdom. 2-avenge my parents and castle’s people. So yes, there was a saving the world quest in the end, but it was just a small problem in my quest to kill… Hum… Stop Zusak.
With what was happening to m’y character, I really didn’t care anymore about the world. I just wanted to punch the other guy.
The set was epic but it wasn’t the goal. In the end, saving the world was by finishing my quest.
In the end, it’s not small or big ending that matter. It’s personnal implication.
If your character is personnally involve in the matter at hand, then that’s what IS important.
Is this because of a revenge/justice qu’est because your nemesis has broke your life, is this because your best friend or lover or sister/brother is involve and/or in peril and you want to save them (and this character has to be really well developed), or because you are interested in the truth (like in Heart of the House), I want to know more about m’y character (samurai of hyuga, fallen hero)…
World threat is just a set, story should never really focus on it (or it’s a serie and this is the last episode). Story should focus on the main character and people close to them (friends, foe, family, teacher…)
