While I’m inclined to have the same gut reaction as the OP, I don’t think it’s a case of small-to-big in terms of initial plot to ending that explicitly causes an issue. Instead, maybe it’s an issue of organic or fluid development toward that ending.
A smaller, more enclosed setting or premise can grow to a larger scope as themes are introduced. Likewise, a large scale setting or premise can find itself becoming something of a character study that focuses on the struggles of a individual.
As long as themes are applied realistically and tone is kept consistent or steady, I think big or small endings can work.
Of course even then, billing something up as a heist and then offering such an ending certainly can give the reader genre whiplash. But given that summary and bullet points hint that there’s something more going on in this story, fair warning was given.
When I see that bullet point in a story where it doesn’t merit top billing, my instinctive assumption is that it’s a story about whatever the initial blurb is and then a revolution story has been awkwardly stapled on. In particular, while I haven’t checked out the Martian Job at all, from the first paragraph of the email I’d be inclined to bring a character who is here for a combination of the money and the thrill of robbing a casino on Mars and who has no opinion whatsoever on local politics except insofar as they impact casino security and/or avaliable support. So unless they team up for a joint theft-spying strike said character would not likely even consider the question of who is in the right.
Though if the Mars’s Eleven includes several rebels and they make a good showing that could change matters.
It’s not a huge thing, but having the option presented says my character has an opinion on the subject, and sometimes I want to play a character who doesn’t.
The marketing of the game is what has caused so much confusion here. It is possible to ignore the revolution and either ignore the Martian “government” or even join them …
From my limited experience, it is entirely possible to go small in “The Martian Job” focusing on the elements
you desire to. This is where the marketing info is not clear at all.
With “The Martian Job” you can go big or go small and both my attempts were successful.
Going Small : I focused on choices that were related to the heist(s) and my ending reflected my small route.
Going Big: I focused on joining and helping the Martian Consortium (the government) and made a big difference in the outcome.
So, in conclusion, don’t listen to the marketing for this game and go into it with a consistency of choice making and you should get the big or small ending you prefer.
The author’s writing experience shows in their story telling and they actually pulled off several end states within the approximately 150,000 words.
This is a good summary of my experience with “The Martian Job.”
It seems (from your posts up to this point) that you have not even read The Martian Job yet. I’d be interested to see if you feel the same way if you actually do play this game.
I found the writing to be above average for a CoG game. I felt neither rushed nor did I find issues like I have in other games.
I like being locked into a trajectory once it is the right time for the trajectory to be locked.
There is no simple formula or test and I feel it is a matter of competent story writing and execution of basic game design which determines whether an IF game succeeds in this. You need both to succeed; lacking in one skill will lead to a fail-state for the whole (ymmv).
Someone expressed a bit of dislike in Mysteries of Baroque since the MC could have such wide-spanning affects from their actions. It was kind of obvious to me that this was how the game was going to go, and I accepted it. I mean, someone who was heir to wealth and power rises from the dead…that is going to be more epic.
That said, if I’m working on a game, and I like the world, but want to play around in it again, whether a sequel or a side-story, then you are best keeping the scope of things small. Yes, the player might get wealthy (and that would have its own ripples), but it isn’t like overthrowing a government.
Of course, when you know something is going to be a series, like @Havenstone’s Choice of Rebels, or Cataphrak’s Dragoon Saga, then you will expect it to sort of be big at the end, though you still need to start small.
Personal choice wise? I do sort of like small to medium because if it is a world I like then I would like to go back to it, even if it is a different character.
This is what sort of concerns me with Champion of the Gods 2. I really liked the first one, but some of the MC’s actions can have wide-ranging effects (such as exile), and I don’t know how they can reconcile it with the first one, unless they retcon it.
I actually had an issue with this in the last installment of Community College Hero. Basically, the story is evolving into a more epic and large conflict dealing with some heavy politics and ideologies. It’s not like the first installment of the series didn’t hint to some of these things, but it always felt like something in the background and while I was imagining that at certain point it would become more relevant to us, I didn’t think it would take the principal focus of the story.
I’m having a little trouble trying to understand why I feel this way about it. I think it might have to do with the fact that the initial premise didn’t seem like a match for a “big story”, I was initially attracted to it because it just seemed like a comedic take on a superhero story, sincere but never taking itself too seriously. Most of the time it was like I would imagine it would be, and whenever the story shifted to a darker and serious tone, I was a little bit put off. Everything from the MC to the secondary characters and the initial setting seemed too small for the conflict that part 2 is building up to.
And yet, I don’t think that it has much to do with how consequential are the actions of the heroes for the rest of the world. I think it’s a matter of how big and complex the story presents itself. As a contrast I can compare it with one of my favourite comic series, The Runaways, it centered about a group of teenagers teaming against their evil parents and trying to save the world from the actions of some evil ancient gods, a premise that seemed too over the top, yet the story managed to seem small, it found a framework that was endearing in its simplicity and allowed for a better sense of intimacy in what seemed like a large conflict.
I think it’s a little bit complicated to predict when a story might be a good match for a big ending, I’m aware also that a lot of people don’t share my feelings about CCH, and I never meant this to be an argument against the quality of the work. It’s just one of the best examples to me of finding that a story moved in a bigger direction from what I initially imagined (or wanted).
My problem with Martian game is not only the change of theme. Is Infound terribly bad executed as I was forced to be in a mining place i hate and heard the pleas of revolutionary people my character totally despises and it clearly trying too hard to convince I should be x route that is the one. I lost totally interest in that moment i ended bored to point I just don’t care.
This could be easy solved with a simply I don’t care this mining rebels I will go to my room and wait something else going on.
Why is not that choice present? Because fear people say TOO SHORT and give bad rating So author are doing absolutely all to that not happen to have max word per playthrough. And that’s something could ended alienating players like me who role play.
Game 's well written i enjoy except several stuff as the character being like a ghost with non descriptions and the weird pronoun asking Short scope was good . Problem is trying too hard to make me hear the stuff a faction i say five times No.
I hope a choice to skip it could be added and then ended the game as it is now I can’t knowing i will have to read a wall o text about a Marx stuff in a martian mine i don’t care while my character is naping in boring as is it totally against them.
In two play sessions, I never once interacted with the rebels outside of sitting with the Reds at the boxing match. I think you must have chosen a few choices that led you here
This is off topic so we can transfer this discussion to the Martian release thread if you wish.
I don’t object to the idea of having an ongoing rebellion the character doesn’t have to participate in but occasionally has runins with rebels who try to convince them to join, but I usually don’t like the implementation.
Think of it this way: while every route is part of the game, with very few exceptions each playthrough is usually meant to be an entire self-contained story. So when I’m not following the rebellion path, I’m reading a story that’s not about the rebellion. So the scene needs to contribute to that story, not just the rebellion story, because I’m not reading the rebellion story. I am, however, reading a story during a rebellion.
Deathless: City’s Thirst manages this, because it’s a story about water rights. By the time I reach the literal first option, it is already established that my character has made career choices such that they’re involved in securing water rights. Since the rebellion is about water rights, the rebellion always matters to your character. Even when my character’s only political view is “I don’t want the inhabitants of Dresdal Lex to die of dehydration” I need to make a decision on how best to accomplish this in light of the fact that there’s a brewing rebellion over diverting water to Dresdal Lex. And because it’s so central, my character could always plausibly rethink their position based on how the last choice turned out; the farmers always suffer if you go hardline, but also you can’t ever get real water security for Dresdal Lex; with Quet Sea-Lord broken on his own altar it’s just not possible to supply enough water to avoid rationing.
To be clear, not being able to get enough water isn’t negating your choice to get all the water possible; literally the entire premise and thrust of the story is that Dresdal Lex cannot secure a sustainable water supply.
Ok but I would argue The Martian Job does this. For example:
Indigo and the Coffee House scene could end up with you just sitting with them for a cup of tea or listening to a recruitment speech.
Me being at that locale was part of both play throughs that did not involve the rebellion and I had reasons outside of that rebellion to be there, so perhaps I’m not understanding.
I’m speaking generically; I haven’t played The Martian Job myself so I can’t evaluate it specifically.
I’m having trouble remembering which specific games I have the issue with, since the problem is that the scenes weren’t interesting enough to remember.
Reading this thread kinda makes me reconsider if it was a smart move to buy The Martian Job. (I bought it but I didn’t really have the time to read even the first chapter yet)
Edit: to answer the OPs question. What I would expect from an ending is closure. And while some endings just raise up even more question I don’t think it can be blamed on “big endings”. Another example brought up here was The Mysteries of Baroque but I was fine with that games ending. SoI guess no matter if it’s a big or small ending all what matters is the writing.
Personally … i don’t mind whether it is a Big Ending or small ending as long as it has a satisfying closure that end with No dissatisfying cliffhanger and No loose ends… unless it had been make clear that there is going to be sequel.
For Heart of the House , the closure was well done where the aftermath of every characters was clearly explain … and the world was considered safe in certain route with Oriana going back to help close the portal indefinitely… but with Oriana staying , we can only delay the cruel future fate of the world… leaving possibility of a sequel but still, the immediate danger laid to rest , so it is a consider a good closure…
However, i must repeat the same preaching about the quality of Tin Star again, because its multiple endings were truly the best i had read thus far, all possible routes and ending had been clearly documented in the epilogue based on our choice… was it consider small ending ? I am not sure because certain ending can be interpreted as Big because we can be a prominent figure in the America politics , perhaps even as the president with Upton’s backing? But in certain endings , it was all about the protagonist chosing his/her own solidarity life
Another example of satisfying ending is Slammed! , where MC had been given a life of his/her own, but it was also hint that MC can carry on to revolutionalised the wrestling world … is that consider Big or Small… perhaps too small if it was to compare with saving the world
Another good ending i could think of is Broadway 1849 , where after surviving the first season… with Louisa by my side, i can vaguely imagine my ending could be small or big as well… i could continue working with my own theater, coorperate or even working for the Carly sisters… and even involve myself in politics
Hence a good ending need not restrict itself to either Big or Small
Both, I think. The important thing is that if you go Big, then you should do some big buildup to do this, otherwise it just feels rushed. If you go Small, then you need to be absolutely sure that your game actually ends.
For bad example of go big (my example, I don’t want to offend anyone) I would go with that game about music. I bought a game about being a musician because I genuinely wanted to know how it would feel, but alas, in absolutely no time we are in the middle of flipping war. And then like if you don’t want to be involved, then there are devastation and death absolutely everywhere. But why my main character would even want to try to stop the war is unclear. Like in one moment I am in some big concert, the next - I’m in the battlefield. Or something like that.
Good example? the Lost Heir trilogy. It’s pretty obvious from the start that game will go big. Our motivation is clear and buildup is three books! Pretty hard books to play, but still.
As for the last COG game… well. I get it why some people doesn’t like it. ehem. SPOILERS.
Yes, it’s not exactly railroading you in certain choices, but when you read your choices by some point in the game it’s like:
“I came here to do my job”
“Oh! Mars! And space WOW!”
“These poor workers… surely someONE needs to help them”
“How can they live like this? Where are their government?”
“I should really phone (name) so we can finally hook up”
And it’s like… yeah. I get it. Being mine worker sucks. But it’s almost like our government tries to blame people on the global warming and how “not ecological” we all are, when our industry is to blame. I am not a bad guy for not wanting to help them. I am a bad guy because I tried to rob the casino, but other than that? I have zero motivation to help them. Other, than because of my moral code, I guess. But that’s not a motivation, not really.
I would say that it depends on execution, especially when a reader discovers (in a small story) that there’s a big story on the horizon. If the big story comes out of the blue (e.g. Blood Money) then that can break immersion and cause the reader to do a double take. But if the big story has had enough foreshadowing (e.g. Tin Star), then I’d probably be fine with it.
In a nutshell, I don’t mind if a big or small story ends big or small, respective to their beginnings, but I think that the execution has to be done well if the end differs from the beginning.
I prefer “smaller” ones because I liked diabolical until it was revealed we had to send a space station into space and have big laser and I think there were aliens too. I still enjoyed it I just woulda liked it better if we just kept being the normal type villain.
As I map out CCH3, I am wary of pushing every possible path to some huge “it all comes down to a huge battle” via Avengers: Infinity War.
More intimate endings, with fewer characters involved and with more personal grudges involved, might be more satisfying to many readers. Maybe the big throw down happens outside, while the main character focuses on revenge against a character, or possibly saving a certain character above all else.
EDITED TO ADD:
@MockTurtle, I read your post and I totally get it. I do wonder if I could have kept things “smaller,” but I had so many ideas for characters, and I wanted to double down on the Speck kids being underdogs, so I felt I needed to introduce more of the “alphas” of the hero/villain world. You make very valid points. But with a trilogy approach, I guess I felt I needed to go small, medium, large and keep driving the stakes up. In a true episodic/tv/comic book approach, I could have kept the entire series lighter and more intimate, with a “villain of the month” format, focusing on the kids slowly getting more competent over time.
Sincerely I wouldn’t like a big epic scale battle for my character in your game basically because she doesn’t want she want be successful and enter in mega cat school with his boyfriend. Speck and plot is something she has to deal with. I hope opportunity to a small closure ending in the school she wants and with her boyfriend not becoming the new super woman Think she would chuckle to die
