Why don’t you just write a story and show everybody how it’s done? You make it sound so easy. You already have supporters in this thread. I’m sure everything will go smooth and be fine.
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Lol, because I’m a comp lit reader, not a writer. I don’t claim to do it better, but I read with a critical eye in the hope it helps. I’m just a reader with my own unique perspective trying to help, not trying to bring people down with one-off comments, but you do you. 
have a great day.
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I suspect you are correct looking at the number of published titles that have never finished their story arcs, but I don’t have the stats to back that up, especially when it comes to WIPs that never got the first done @chanceoffire 
Ok this is my POV on this. While there are exceptions to the rule (particularly the heavy hitters that you know will likely get their sequels out sooner or later or authors that have shown they can write series before), but even then, I’d personally prefer most gamebooks to have a core plot that is self contained within a single “book” that can be finished. I have no problem with books that leave the door open to a sequel/prequel/spinoff or tease a new plot line. My problem is where nothing is finished and the story kind of stops or worse ends on a cliffhanger (I absolutely hate it when TV series do this as well btw. Wrap the series up! It may not get renewed!!!) Example of a game (but far from the only one) that does this well from memory is the first evertree. Does it have sequels now- Yeah. But if the game had have only been a single installment would you have felt left hanging in an annoying way- No not really because it wound up the major story plot in that part of the series.
Unfortunately part of the reason for this is everyone wants longer games and to be known for making “epic worlds”. But making a 2+mil word game that works is probably beyond the realistic capabilities of most so they get carved into chunks. Ditto for your RO gripe. Sorry, but if everyone keeps harping on more words is always better, and there’s little incentive to aggressively edit for pacing and content to keep things on track, and then this is going to frequently be the final result. And if that game ends up being 200k longer than it really had to be and adds an extra “book” to the series, then many are going to see that as a “good thing” rather than a story whose pacing really could have been tightened up. Writers are going to pace relationships over the length of the “overall story arc” rather than the first installment and then potentially have no where to go but repeating past ground or adding unneeded drama etc to keep the RO relationship somewhat interesting.
If you want an example of an epic series that concluded a character arc too early, look at Perrin from wheel of time. RJ literally had him going back on his character developments to redo them over (which became really annoying) when he wasn’t spinning his wheels procrastinating as it really felt like for a while there the author had no idea what his character could be doing but couldn’t drop him from the series. That’s the thing though, if you’re going to write an overarching plot that needs to go over an entire series, you’re going to have to pace your character developments over the whole thing, not just to make the first book satisfying.
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That’s not how criticism works.
But on topic, I generally agree with your sentiments. Fortunately for me, there are only a handful of WIPs that I’m actually invested in.
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This brings back memories of watching John Crichton and Aeryn Sun get blown to smithereens… and then Farscape got canceled. Damn SciFi channel to hell, though at least they let Rockne O’Bannon finish it up with the movie. But I agree with your point. I hate game series that end on cliffhangers.
Throw in the fact that some authors do a lot of copy/paste with dialog and narrative, changing only a word here or there, but get credit for having a huge word count, which drives the price of their game up. Like you said, pacing also becomes a problem, and sometimes, the plot is completely lost along the way.
WoT ranting...
“FAILE!!!” Ahem. Seriously, Perrin was wasted. I always thought he was the most adult of the three Two Rivers boys, and he should’ve been allowed to be an adult. Mat certainly needed that, at certain points. And Rand needed someone around other than Nyn who cared about him and, unlike Cadsuane, wasn’t constantly poking him in the eye with a stick to piss him off so she could slap him down for having a temper. Perrin would’ve been a nice balance. But whatever. That series dragged on too long and was in need of a good editor.
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Omg yes! Perrin was absolutely wasted, I only cared about Faile. Perrin (with Faile) could have been the heroes, instead we get lazy Rand and his harem of mediocrity.
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This is what I’m aiming for with my own work. Honestly, by the time I’m done I doubt I’ll even want to write a sequel. I’m not the kind of person to build one world my entire life like Tolkien, by the time I’m done with one work I think I’d like to move on to something fresh. Maybe come back around if I get a good idea.
EDIT: As a side note, engagement feels good and gets money. A work with guaranteed sequels, if you can get to that point, is going to have more longevity than a standalone. I think that’s attractive to many prospective authors. Many of the more discussed works on the site are series, and I think that people see that and want a taste of it.
This is a pretty frustrating thing in the community ngl. There’s a real wordcount fetishization that at a certain point rewards shoddy coding and circuitous pacing. More does not always equal better.
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agree with you 100%. what i wouldnt do for another choice of robots or tin star or vtm: night road. just a nice standalone story. i think most authors who fall into the sequel pittraps are doing it for monetary reasons. or to just bandwagon on what they think everyone wants. when was the last time you saw long discussions on a standalone game with 150k words? you need big games for big discussions, and thats hard to pull off for people who cant do mechanical wizardry with choicescript or just want to write a small and simple story. and if youre not getting any feedback/discussion on your story it can be disheartening to keep on pushing.
agree on the slow burn romances as well. its only pulled off well in the infiniverse games, because 1) you live in a very traditional society and 2) youre too busy with the war and politicking. otherwise it comes off as stupid.
what, is he presenting a harvard thesis? its an obscure choose your own adventure games forum. not the kind of thing that needs a lot of formality.
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For a series with the same protagonist, whether it’s a book or a game I need each entry to have a satisfying self-contained story in addition to moving through a multi-entry plot. That includes character and relationship development - which runs the risk of either moving very slowly in order to be spread through multiple games, or becoming repetitive. My favourite series keep relationships/characterisation consistent while also feeling fresh and surprising. Romance wise, I’m a fan of being able to develop a relationship in Game 1 in some way, and have it built on later, rather than still being in a getting-to-know-you stage or not being able to talk about it until a later game. Depends on the timescale of the game and situation, though.
All of that is really hard to do, especially in something interactive. Of course there are outliers who have done brilliantly, but I would not recommend it for first-time writers.
Sidebar about commercial stuff, as it’s come up a couple of times:
Interestingly, the majority of book and indie game series diminish in sales with more entries. (I remember several book series I liked that were cancelled by their publishers without more books to come.) Successful series seem more common here, but I noticed that Relics 2 and the second Pon Para were in the underrated games poll recently. It may not be as sure a bet as the bestselling series make it look; it’s also the case that in the case of ChoiceScript games, each entry will likely be larger and take longer to release and bring in money. So that’s another financial factor that’s worth keeping in mind for authors.
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Mmmm. I get where you are coming from. Part in regards to liking a plot that may never get finished because of a newbie writer with too much undertaken. But I have to disagree on the long wait between books = waning interest. It’s mostly personal preference but I love longer books. It makes the story more alive for me and while there is a reasonable extent to how many books you should have. I.E. A full prologue where nothing happens for 500k words is not going to hook me because a prologue has no business being that long and stand alone. I personally having looked back over all my favorite media. Have found that the things where I am forced to wait extended periods of time as they are made. Have more often than not. Been much better. It may be just a lucked out thing. Where those who can manage to keep a franchise going long enough tend to just be better and so it’s sort of survivor bias. But that feeling of well. growing up with the characters as time passes and more entries come. And that child like giddy that comes from the ever approaching release. Its honestly been more fun than any standalone media that made a decent one off on time entry.
But that’s not to say every title needs to be a series. Especially for newbie writers. Because the last thing you want is to be limited in your project for the bext 10 years of writing. Because those will be hell if you aren’t fanatic about your first strike world
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This is why you are the best, you pull from the past (sometimes painfully) and push to a different future… with mostly gorgeous consequences, as it should be. 
I wish more characters were Iike this.
Just a friendly reminder Writers can write whatever they want and do the parts whatever they want, and No need people bashing them asking their pedigree of not being novel prices.
I find really insulting this concept that We can been ashamed in group just because we warn that we expect to do a series.
I directly don’t feel interesting 90% of wips. They are not targeted for my specifics. And that’s fine. I deeply respect those writers and value and support their right to have wips and be successful.
NO everything has to be catered to ourselves And people should not be ashamed publicly for not directly doing what we want when we want.
It is petty and insulting. it is not helping the community as a whole.
You want changes. Do a jam that encourage shorter stories more your liking write reviews encourage the games you like.
Bashing writers for no reason whatsoever is not the way.
Edit Sorry if I sound harsh. But I have been in the wip writer place with people bashing me and feeling burned and bitter. I still can’t deal with a Wip it triggers my anxiety big deal only thinking about how people will bashing me again.
Threads like this can cause many authors that could have a lot of future don’t dare to even started.
I am determined to do anything to not other person suffering from that they deserve a chance to be judged by their work not by other reason
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Agree and maybe you didn’t click with the first post, but in no way am I saying people shouldn’t write what they want to write, I’m only offering an opinion on a fairly limited scope which boils down to… please give me a story, not a series. I don’t want to read a character in ten parts, I don’t want to wait until book two be an adult, and I don’t want to not have a RO introduced until 1500000 words in. This is all. If that’s not a story you want to write… totally cool! But there’s just a huge empty market waiting for something… else.
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Your thread doesn’t bring anything productive except discourage people from posting wips.
I am the rant queen… But rant just for rant doesn’t work.
Maybe offering yourself as tester to anyone who wants to put a short wip. Or you can make a romance contest.
Or offering yourself in the feedback thread.
Action for improving our forum wip market is what forum needs not bashing new writers to compliance
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I admit my English skills are not good enough for me to understand what’s the difference between a series and a serial.
In ideal situation, this isn’t mutually exclusive with having a series? (In fact, in ideal situation, the series should work better if you plan it as a series, instead of just dumping a sequel on top of a story that was not designed for it?) Not resolving everything ≠ cliffhanger (nor does it mean the story can’t be read as a self-contained one).
I agree the ideal case doesn’t always happen though.
This sounds like a series to me? By definition, I mean. (I know Crème de la Crème, I don’t need someone to come explain to me what it is. 
)
Okay, this one I understand (and agree on design level, even if as a reader I don’t mind that much if I like the characters or the world enough… because in that case, I can just headcanon an ending to myself if it gets cancelled. It’s annoying, but not too annoying).
Sidenote, I read “undead drama” and was momentarily sidetracked picturing this in your standard discount-store romantic comedy
That sounds oddly appropriate, given the name of the series
To be clear, I have nothing against stand-alones (or short games. Or long games. Or series. I read it all). I’m just trying to understand what actually is talked about here!
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I already know you are the rant queen, that’s why I love your posts, but I’m not coming for anybody here, I’m simply voicing a concern/request. Please give give us one and done stories. I would actually like to read the prologue before I’m 94. That’s it. Just a middle-aged man, tryna finish his stories before he gets too old.
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Or it might encourage some people who feels that there wouldn’t be a market for their standalone game, because its not a series, like so many of the really popular HGs?
I do think the title of this thread could be a little less combative, though.
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My fault, trying to be funny rather than combative, but I get it. None of us have the same sense of humor…. It can be a tough balance. But honestly? I was going for humor, not attitude.
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Okay I am here since Havie first demo Jim first game…
Games need time and I understand that feeling as Bethesda fan since 90’s.
But wips are free. They are being sincere and put upfront they goal. Yeah we know statistics and 75% will never end.
That is how always have been. Your concerns are valid and reliable to readers.
But solution is step away and only following the ones that click with you.
That and trying to encourage writers and nurturing environment to they write faster and better
@Robd5822 group @Eiwynn threads and many of the jams popping are the way to improve the quality and fast the process.
I want to encourage you to find a way to helping.
But Threads like this can discourage people who is trying to start
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Thanks PM, I’ll take that to heart, I value your input and am not taking anything lightly, nor trying to discourage anyone. I want us all to be our best 
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