Romantic Options

General
101

in a writing artistic perspective i like the doom characters and kill all the hope with perfect bad endings. But this are games too not have a way to achieve some reward its cheap and horrible.

Put the ending of Mass effect 3 its true than is horrible in All levels lore, story, even the cut scenes are generic and only change color. But the think i most hate is the Feeling of being cheated for the developers for bioware you are playing our games for 6 years f*** you!!! no answer no real fulfilling ending no only more questions

102

FG, I get what youā€™re saying about Ecstacy and yes, thereā€™s a story there and the consummation is delayed, but itā€™s obvious grom moment one that sheā€™s yours from moment one. I mean right there in the first conversation where she indicates that *she* is a big fan of *you*. From that point, pretty much all you have to do is not intentionally be a huge jerk.

And, while I could see how it might be different when sheā€™s a he and all his little feminine weaknesses seem less socially acceptable (interesting tangent that), honestly the characterā€™s flaws and personal story just seem like theyā€™re there to justify the relationship. Her biological father explains both her presence in the game and her initial interest in you; and her struggles with the competition are basically just an opportunity for you to be the Good Guy and help carry her through.

To C_S: Your points are well taken about journey vs. destination; but the thing about a game vs. a static story is that by playing the game you are, on some level, actively working to achieve the characterā€™s goals. If rescuing the princess is not inherently preferable to the alternative, then why keep jumping over all those pits.

Granted, in the specific case of choicescript that argument is a little weaker because thereā€™s only so much ā€œchallengeā€ you can put into a CYOA. But still, if Iā€™m role-playing a character, then as that character Iā€™m going to be trying to find the path to success and happiness. Having a chance to succeed but failing is tragedy, and tragedy is potentially satisfying. Discovering thereā€™s no way to succeed is futility, and futility is inherently frustrating.

103

@MaraJade
Mass Effect 3 had endings where you could ā€œwinā€ (at least, I think thatā€™s what was happening). The problem was that those endings had little in the way of resolution or closure.

@Wonderboy
I get that a player wants to achieve goals, but with a story that can change according to playerā€™s choices, those goals can become rather fluid. A win might turn into a loss and a loss to a win. You might get stuck in a grey not-win-not-loss area. Paradox Factor is a great example of making a player really analyze their goals.

In any case, if a player character fails, but still gains something from the experience, it still had a purpose, right? CotV and CoB both had doomed romances, but Iā€™m sure that doesnā€™t stop people from choosing to peruse them in subsequent playthroughs.

1 Like
104

If a romance its doomed and always its a fail i donā€™t replay it is stupid for me.
A game its a competing thing with yourself or with other people trying to find what is the best for you.

cog games for me are all about choices and his importance in the moment all choices are fail why i have to play it again? the result would be the same so i donā€™t try romance none in CoV its stupid, all die and if not dont get anywhere why i need invest time playing something i know its doom before start?

I donā€™t buy the important is the voyage philosophy. Not for a game based in choices if all goes same fate its not real a choice

105

@jasonstevanhill I know youā€™ve fixed several of the issues Iā€™ve mentioned in the past, including Clothoā€™s bugged death scene. I do not however recall the forced feelings issue being addressed. Nevertheless, itā€™s certainly possible that I read through that part too quickly to realize that it had changed back when I was alpha-testing CotV2. I will put rereading the original Clotho romance on my todo list for the near future, and report back once I have.

106

@P_Tigras I mostly mean that there are several instances at which you can be like, uh, no, Iā€™m not really into this chick. So I suppose, are you looking for more/different/what?

107

Well, if Iā€™m being honest, I do find the forced failure aspect of the Clotho romance rather frustrating, and judging by the seemingly thousands of threads that have started on the subject Iā€™m not the only one. Thatā€™s not to say Jason didnā€™t make a valid artistic choice in presenting it that way: itā€™s something that happens very early in what is clearly still a series in progress. But my point is that breaching the contract with your player like that isnā€™t something you should do lightly.

CoB is different is a different animal in that: A. The romance isnā€™t doomed out of nowhere; it was something that flowed from facts that should be obvious from the get go and B. itā€™s not really that doomed anyway. Itā€™s certainly possible to end the game with both yourself and V alive and on good terms; and itā€™s not even neccessary to make any great sacrifices to get there. Sure youā€™re not together, but itā€™s easy to imagine that being rectified after the war.

108

I didnā€™t think we actually carried Ecstasy through. Ecstasy was carried through on the back of the popular vote, and their own sheer determination. Iā€™ll admit, if Iā€™m looking for a female love interest I prefer Rio. Iā€™m also very fond of Alex, but glad that sheā€™s not romanceable. I can see where a straight, female Ecstasy, who is stunningly beautiful, one of the top pop stars, is in fact winning a wrestling contest despite never having wrestled, and claims to be a fan of yours, could be seen as a too perfect, fantasy.

I like Ecstasy as male. I think the gender swap does interesting things to the character. If youā€™re female and Ecstasy is male, then thereā€™s an interesting dynamic there, of you actually being the more athletic, muscle, whereas Ecstasy is the charming, social one. You can fight his battles for him, and thatā€™s just a wonderful inversion of gender roles.

Youā€™re the one who reassures him through his fears, who helps bring out the best in him, and then heā€™s there and being supportive too. Heā€™s the stereotypical gorgeous, platinum haired pretty boy, but heā€™s not perfect, he has his flaws.

Iā€™m not sure, someone else should likely chime in here about what it is that appeals. I generally play the same sex relationships and I do think the dynamic is different, even if the lines are mostly the same, if youā€™re not playing as a straight man with a female Ecstasy.

I prefer Choice of Romance with all of the love interests female. I actually liked Torres (was it, the merchant) far better as female than I did as male. I sympathised with her, her achievements and her awkwardness far more than I did with the male version. I liked the Monarch as a Queen, because of the way it turned gender expectations on their head. A womanising king who chases anything that moves is a stereotype, a woman who has the freedom to do the same, and who isnā€™t judged any different for it, is far more interesting to me.

I do love the gender flips and how they completely change my interpretation of characters and they get me questioning my own inner prejudices and assumptions.

109

I think weā€™ve kind of reached the point where we understand one another on the specific question of Ecstacy and why our impressions of the character are different. But I think the discussinns with you and with C_S both have clarified why Iā€™ve been generally dissatisfied with choicescript romances in general: Basically when they arenā€™t doomed theyā€™re just too damn easy. Like I said above in a different context, itā€™s hard to present a real challenge in CYOA format, but too often the games just ask you to feed your preferences into a box and then present you with a compatible character who might as well have a Romantic Interest sign flashing over his or her head.

And sometimes theyā€™re interesting characters in theyā€™re own right and sometimes they arenā€™t, but in either case itā€™s clear why theyā€™re there and fheyā€™re usually head just about over the heels for you at first sight. One of the many things I appreciate about Zombie Exodus is that your potential partners are written to be fellow survivors first and potential partners second. They donā€™t just exit stage left the instant itā€™s clear youā€™re not interested in making smoochyface. It makes things feel more real and less like a personally crafted holodeck fantasy. JJ and the french captain from CoB are kind of like that in that they can be romantic interests or antagonists or even both, but still in any event their existance is more about you (JJā€™s literally obsessed with the PC acter all) than about them, and they still share space with the Ecstacys and the generic navy wives of their respective universes. But those types of characters are almost a sort of failsafe; a way to let the player have their happy ending without it encroaching on the story youā€™re trying to present.

With ZE, though, thereā€™s always the fear that youā€™ll be into, say, Tom and that no matter what you do, the relationship just wonā€™t survive his constant attempts to murder your entire family. And thatā€™s kind of exciting but also kind of frustrating. There probably isnā€™t a way to get one without the other and therefore no perfect solution, I guess. Which is another sort of frustration for me as a writer.

110

This is all very enlightening to read and Iā€™m writing a game where romance is a big part of it and have a romance doomed from the start that you can pursue to the end but just couldnā€™t work, (due to being mayor). And a romance that is very easy to start, with a certain character, and is a ā€˜romanceā€™ that you have to build to ā€˜loveā€™ and not just blatently sex. Of course there are other romances too but are very complex to start and build a romantic bond with. Also I am debating on whether to have romance possible with an older character than typical in CoGā€™s, mid 50ā€™s if you must know. Thoughts?

111

@spyfox259 if one of the romances is doomed from start left hints about it its horrible play to hours to discover writer was cheat you all the time make your actions and choices totally meaningless.

About romance with old people let it clear mc is more than 18. I donā€™t care about it but i donā€™t goin to follow that path because Im not attracted with people canā€™t be my grandpa but its matter of opinion. And variety is good.
About hard to maintain and challenge romance thatā€™s what i want, make your choices and investment worth it.

also i want to give a advice donā€™t design a mc female what the only dream she has is marry of white with her prince and have tons of children

112

@spyfox259 It was on another site that someone had this idea, though the site was primarily about stories, where a user asked about how people would react to an older character love interest (Or even if they wanted to read stories of elderly couples and such) There was a surprising number in favor, due to the fact that it really isnā€™t something thatā€™s done, and itā€™s refreshingly different, which is why I say go with it!

Though I must admit I agree with MaraJade on one issue about the MCā€™s age. If youā€™re younger than 18 I would at least suggest a warning, as it can make people incredibly uncomfortable.

Iā€™m actually in the process of writing a romance myself. Like, pure romance/dating simulation. Itā€™s about 10,000 words so far, and not even a tenth done, though I wonā€™t post it until all characters have been met (which number at about 20 so far). Though, while the general setting is based around a college and college age people (the characters ranging about late teens through mid-twenties) I still have two characters to flesh out and I think I may have them older, at least for a change.

113

I like Luis de Vega. to me heā€™s much more interesting than the king or Gabriel. plus your relationship with him develops over time. and heā€™s relevant to the plot