Thank you! I was just curious. @Ninjasplaycardgames2
@CJW I didnāt like 50 First Dates. But then I generally just donāt like romantic movies and only watch them if Iām forced to do so.
I can tolerate some romance in books although not if romance is the sole purpose of the book. I have a very low threshold for romantic stupidity, a strong dislike of love triangles, especially when one of the participants is then clearly showed to be evil/bad/wrong.
I also have a dislike of abusive relationships and I have a problem with seeing many relationships as abusive. There was one series I read, wherein the heroine had three men who were interested in her. The first was a decent guy, although one who was busy with his work. The second was the son of her familyās rivals, and who was a bad match to begin with, but wasnāt originally portrayed as a bad guy and he did have room for growth. The third was the guy who kidnapped her twice, tortured and raped her, nearly killed her, and helped murder her favourite sister. Guess which one she ended up with? Well the second guy turned evil and I canāt remember what the problems with the first were but she decided that sheād be with the guy who completely messed up her life just because he was sorry and wasnāt evil anymore.
I hate that sort of nonsense.
But then Iām the same for the whole love at first sight tropes. Lust at first sight, maybe, but not love. And none of this falling in love with someone you met in high-school, marrying them, having kids and living happily ever after? How many people do that? Well apart from my parents. 
I prefer relationships that are worked for, that are built between two equal partners.
I am not at all fond of the whole lady stays at home raising the children while the husband goes out having fun adventures. Although I tend to prefer reading queer books so thatās less of an issue.
@Ninjasplaycardgames2 - I refused to get 2, I think it completely destroyed the ethos of Originsā¦
As for Origins romances, they are interesting. I think one of the best is Lelianaās romanceā¦ In actuality I think the romances in Origins were handled ok, they did the dynamics well but their problem was they went on a DLC-fishing expedition and I think most of the dlcs and the sequel completely defeats the point of the romances.
The over-catering around Morrigan for example, the ridiculous ret-consā¦ Meh The less I talk about Dragon Age the better, they (the writers) got too drunk on the successes and having had the experience of ādebatingā with said writers, I think I can safely say they took their finger off the pulse and did their own thing. Personally I think they are the perfect example of the pitfalls of ignoring your own story let alone your own fanbase.
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Personally, I like the way the Fallout series handles romances.
They donāt bother with romance and just concentrate on the storyline and exploration. (Yes even the weaker story they had for Fallout 3)
@Endmaster Tandi, Leslie Anne Bishop, Bittercup, Rose of Sharon Cassidy
Tandi, Rose and Bittercup you canāt even have sex with let alone do any sort of romance. Tandi doesnāt even like the idea, she tells you to go screw a brahmin if you suggest it. Rose doesnāt respond to you either, even if youāve got the Lady Killer perk (Says youāre an untrustworthy heart breaker) Neither react positively to female advances either.
Out of those three Bittercup is the most flirty, but sheās more or less a big tease according to her other 3 ex-boyfriends and you never do anything with her or stick around.
Leslie Anne Bishop (and her daughter) you donāt really romance so much as you just have sex with them and possibly get them pregnant. The pair of them only really sleep with you because theyāre either bored and trashy (in the case of the daughter) or bored and hates her husband (in the case of Leslie) The Chosen One doesnāt really have any feelings for them, let alone stick around.
The closest you MIGHT get to a āromanceā in any of the games is Sarah Weintraub who runs the Vault 21 gift shop in New Vegas since sheās basically a shut in who enjoys your company (Always says she missed you when you visit her) and you can sleep with her on a regular basis if you complete her vault suit task. But I always figured that was more of a āfriends with benefitsā sort of thing rather than anything deeper. (I suppose if the Courier sided with Yes Man or Mr. House in the end, you could pretend that the Courier āsettled downā with Sarah in New Vegas, but thatās getting into fanfic territory and making stuff up.)
Basically though, Fallout confines intimate relationships to just sex which is fitting for a wandering wastelander who doesnāt really settle down.
And in case anyone else gives the other possible examplesā¦
Fallout 2: Marrying Mira or Davin. (Regardless of gender)
No romance here, their father walks in on you having sex and youāve either got the option of running away, talking your way out of it, or submitting to a shotgun marriage. Given that your character isnāt exactly enthusiastic about marriage its clear the Chosen One doesnāt have any real feelings for them and was just in it for the sex. (Fortunately you can pimp either of them out, sell them into slavery or just kill them though)
Fallout 3: Mr. Burke
A female character can sweet talk Mr. Burke and heāll leave Megaton alone and start writing you love letters. Again, no romance here either. Itās more of a one sided creepy obsession by a sociopath who got hot and bothered by a pretty face. He doesnāt even stick with it, eventually he ends āyour affairā (Which you never have!) after sending four letters.
Silas from CotV, I think mainly because Iām a stickler for tragedies.
Thisi as well, cliched and (in my opinion) uninteresting as a character. In addition, wouldnāt take ānoā for an answer.
Either Alistair from DA:O, or Garrus, or Tali from ME, or Bastille from Kotor, or Sky from Jade Empire.
For the first three, because of the development of their characters throughout their respective game(s) and the relationships between them and the MC. I also loved their awkwardness.
As for Bastille, again the development but also the vulnerability she displayed in the more tender moments.
Sky, well Iām not even really sure whyā¦
I canāt think of any romance option that really sticks out to me that I hated.
Physical attractiveness, good characterization throughout the game and their own personalā¦ je ne sais quoi ? I guess.
As for what I dislike - pretty much the opposite of above.
@RDT Thankyou so much for the answers. Thatās helpful.
What is it about tragedies that you like? I will admit that I was frustrated with the Choice of Vampire romances because both of them were doomed and there was no saving them no matter what you did. The characters both died.
I would have liked the option to save them even if it meant that weād never be together romantically. Iād have preferred to make that sort of choice as opposed to just feeling absolutely helpless.
I donāt know most of those characters, youāve listed though Iāll be about to hit wikipedia to see. 
Does physical attractiveness matter to you in a text game? Would you rather a beautiful person with an awful personality, or a person with an attractive personality who wasnāt classically good-looking. Iām thinking a Cyrano de Bergerac type of scenario.
@FairGodfeather - That last paragraph, oh how I wish I could talk about that in more detail - but no, not just yetā¦
Iāll say this much: In a text-based game, it is much easier to appreciate people for their personality - just the absence of a decent description can make them more appealing.
In CoR I remember that Merchant woman/man was described quite badly (deliberately I presume) but apart from that, I canāt think of any romance characters in games that Iāve disliked because of their description - rather, if anything - itās how they behave or what they say.
I suppose if you deliberately and constantly bring up how unfit they are or how sweaty, greasy etc - You can definitely *make* people seem unattractive.
I think thereās a difference between beautiful, attractive, average, plain and then so disgustingly offputting.
I think of Jury from Heroes Rise, and yes the Merchant wo/man in CoR. They are given traits the player is meant to be repulsed by, both physical and personality.
Iād actually wished that the merchant was presented as a more valid option. But there was no ability to try and make it a real love match, or be smart and get involved in the business. To awaken the passion and love in them and turn it into something more than a business arrangement. I would have liked to have been able to do that. Iād have liked to be able to stage a seduction, or at least build a friendship, or to be partners. But regardless of gender I always seemed to be stuck in the role of pampered yet neglected pet left at home while the important people work.
It was the same withā¦ um the other person, whose name Iāve forgotten, the younger one. There was absolutely no way to help them make their fortune, to fight alongside, to make use of your political skills and charms and influence over the monarch and others to scheme and get what you wanted to make your own future better.
I felt like I lacked any real agency.
But Iām off on a tangent again. I was more thinking of a character described as average, plain, not utterly perfect. Personally I donāt think it really matters to me in games as long as Iām not constantly told of their bad traits.
Speaking of which is it better to keep descriptions vague do you think? I tend to do that, mostly since I hate writing huge long descriptions and I figure no oneās going to remember the exact details anyway.
I greatly enjoyed Alistair from Dragon Age:Origins and Garrus from the Mass Effect series, at least in part because of the character development that occurs. I know it can be difficult to develop properly in a Choice game (the writing involved, keeping track of the choices, the sheer lengthā¦) but I think itās possible. Whether itās feasible is another matter, depending on your personal deadlines.
So why those characters in particular? I liked how they were 1) important to the plot, so it was definitely more than just something tacked on (and in some cases, their feelings about you are actually integral to decisions you are forced to make down the line), and 2) (this is a personal matter) I enjoyed the sweet, awkward build-up. I also liked how it feels more like a partnership between my character and theirs.
@FairyGodfeather mentioned agency; yes. I like how the decisions I make with them (or around them) feel like they actually MATTER. It is more than the tacked on Choice of Romance, which felt (in my mind) more about politics than any actual romance.
Though if I had to pick a Choice gameā¦ I rather liked Clotho from CoTV. She knows who you are, is not afraid, and is a powerful person in her own right. It just never gets to end well with her, and I was disappointed that I had no way to change her fate if we were involved.
@FairyGodfeather Gabriel(le) de Mendosa was the youngest of our suitors at 25, although still a good 9 years older than our character. Torres and de Mendosa are sort of false choices because if you choose them and stay faithful the game gets cut short and ends. If on the other hand you cheat on them with Augustin(a), de Mendosa always dumps you and Torres either dumps you, or becomes your cuckolded spouse while Augustin(a) becomes the center of your world, just like if you chose Augustin(a) to begin with.
In essence, the game centers around your relationship with the monarch and you -must- be in a relationship with Augustin(a) for the game to advance. So Torres and de Mendosa were added to create a sense of competition and give us an illusion of choice. These other choices however all get short shrift because there is no real ability to develop them.
While I didnāt dislike Augustin(a), cheating aside, I have no particular attachment to the character either. Our royal spouse/lover came across as a rather bland and wooden Henry VIII clone to me. Mendosa was a little better, but not much. Torres as youāve noted is the most detailed, the only one with anything resembling a physical description, and a very negative one at that. All in all, none of these characters were particularly memorable. While I did very much enjoy the game, it wasnāt because of the characterization, or the romance, but because of the intrigue.
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Mendosa ending seemed appropriate enough, Torres I felt could have been written a bit more positive if the player picked options that inclined towards them. With both characters they made it clear what you could expect (though initially I found Torresās clumsy flirting endearing) so I donāt fault that, but, theyāre both already Bad Ends as they donāt progress to the next game. To me thatās punishment enough, you donāt necessarily need to add āloveless joyless marriage etcā on top of that.
That said, I like all those romances as being the pursued was a nice change of pace from being the pursuer in pretty much every game ever. That was one of the things I liked about Black Magic as well, they liked the player and set up a chain of events to get closer to them (though I liked the thought behind it more than the way they did it)
As far as other games, back when I was a teenager I was a huge fan of Aerie from baldurās gate 2, the less said about that the better. More recently, I quite liked Safiya from Mask of the Betrayer, she was intelligent, she had agency, and she had a undercurrent of cool ruthlessness without ever approaching being a cliche ice queen. The romance, while optional, was woven into the plot and the player could interpret it how they wished
@P_Tigras Aha! Thanks for the names, I keep forgetting them.
I agree, I saw them as false choices as well, which was unexpected since the name of the game was Choice of Romance.
The best scene, for me, was the one where you were playing politics, and had the chance to be subtle enough to catch the friendship, or at least respect ofā¦ um that other guy whose name Iāve forgotten. I liked the scheming and manipulating and I just wish that thereād been more ways to personally profit from it. That politics seemed to have such potential.
Iād have liked to have been able to make trade sanctions that would have benefited both myself and Torres, if I ended up marrying that way. Or to make a favourable situation for Mendosa so that we could both gain land and earn our fortunes. But as it was it just didnāt have the same degree of impact.
I would have loved to have been able to befriend the consort, and Juanita and possibly Tomas as well. (Possibly without even romancing the monarch). Iād have liked to have cemented my familyās power and fortune by my own abilities, not just through marriage.
I did like Choice of Romance. You can tell the games I didnāt like by the fact I donāt talk at length about them. It was just not quite the game Iād hoped for. Then again thatās why we can make our own games, maybe make things so they are better.
My issue with the monarch was that they were the only real choice and they werenāt that attractive a choice. And there was no way to really accept, hey theyāre always going to have a wandering eye, Iām going to tell them Iām good with that, I accept it. Who was it on the forum that wanted a threesome with Augustina and Adelita? That would have at least make an interesting choice.
Being their consort meant doing some despicable things in order to get there too. Whereas Iād have preferred a role as advisor, and not one so tied to the Monarchās position that Iām forever worried when a new passing fancy comes over them.
I wanted to be more active in the Mendosa ending. More of a partnership, more of a nod to the political machinations Iād done, not just Mendosa being the one.
Torres is an odd character for me, I liked Torres a lot more when I played the game with Torres as a woman. I disliked the male Torres though. And I actually loved that a simple matter of a gender-switch totally changed my perceptions of the character.
@TDilz Iāll need to search for those as well since Iām not sure who Aerie and Safiya are.
@FairyGodfeather You asked what I like about Tragedies? It IS the hopelessness - Thatās what makes a tragedy. Although CotV isnāt a tragedy, the relationships between Clotho and Silas are, and to have a āway outā cheapens the loss of the MC. In addition, because itās the MC choice that gets them killed (at least with Silas); it makes it all the more tragic. However, I can completely understand the frustration that people felt, but thatās supposed to be part of it, as well as the helplessness.
Physical attraction/description is always important, but as CJW says; āIn a text-based game, it is much easier to appreciate people for their personalityā¦ā.
Because it is text based, personality and the actions of the character are MORE important than the physical description, but that doesnāt mean an (un)attractive description isnāt important.
Iām sorry if that comes off as vain/obnoxious, but lets face it, if Garrus was a Volus, even with the same personality, e.t.c., I doubt many people would have chosen to seriously romance him. Same if it turned out that Quarians looked something like āhttp://alienpictures.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/alien-greys.jpgā, or though because of the enviro-suit, people could probably look past it/chose to ignore it.
As for āattractiveā vs āplainā in text based games, I donāt think there is much difference, mainly because if a āplainā character has a great personality/other intangible qualities, than the reader will imagine them as more attractive in their mindās eye. On the flip side, if a physically attractive character has a terrible personality/other intangible qualities, it wonāt really matter; theyāll still be perceived as a poor romance option. At least, thatās what I think.
Is there a way you can choose for Silas to live? I thought that every single path for him leads to his death. If you turn him into a vampire he commits suicide, if not heāll go off to war and eventually die, regardless. Thereās no way of saving him, heāll die in the war, heāll never even consider deserting.
Itās a situation that mirrors the one with Clotho. I did prefer Silas to Clotho, for all that he seemed the more passive of the two characters. They were both tragically doomed, and I suppose thatās part of the whole Vampire mythos. Youāre immortal, most of your loves will be doomed in one way or another, especially with mortals.
Okay I can see why you like it.
I was looking at the pictures of Garrus earlier and he looks, to me, like he fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. Iām sure if he did look less attractive though thereād be modders out there patching on a fix to turn him into a ruggedly sexy alien.
I think youāre right about the last. I agree with that.
@EndMaster Charisma is more than just a dumpstat so you can max out Agility.
And Cassidy gives in during her epilogue if youāre a male character and make the right choices. But anyways those examples also proved your point; they were very minimalist, and a small reward rather than something that just happens as a matter of course. You can write them off entirely or just kind of make up what goes on domestically, like with the Miria situation; I played through an entire game with her as my wife just to see if I could. She can in fact equip power armor and can sneak past unnamed NPCs with that disguise just like the PC, though not named enemies. She is 100% always completely worthless in a fight though.
Iām going to argue for Garrus: I originally thought āReally? REALLY? He has a great voice, but appearance-wiseā¦ā
For me, a lot of the process was growing past that, both as a player and a character. He justā¦ does not look at all like he was designed to be attractive. And physically, I still donāt really find him appealing. If anything is visually attractive though, itās the body language and interactions he has though. I found the āheadbutt of loveā (Mass Effect 2 romance scene) actually rather sweet, especially after all his nervous build-up.
ā¦anyways, I might be derailing the thread.
Looks arenāt always everything with characters, especially as different people can find different things attractiveā¦ or learn to.
@ Reclaimer
I do remember Roseās ending if you side with the NCR, but yeah again its was more like she was going to have drunk sex with the Courier just as a way of celebrating their victory rather than anything deeper, of course when she walks in, she finds an NCR soldier and just does him instead. Heh.
I think I found charisma the most useful in Fallout 2 since it directly related to the number of followers you could have and a few other things. You could still do pretty well with convincing people as long as you had a really high speech skill though in all the games.
Sort of funny, while their isnāt any romance for your character in any of the games, you do get the opportunity to play match maker for others more than few times. Like the mechanic and the Hubologist celebrity in F2, the waitress and the religious guy in Rivet City in F3, or the Boomer and the Crimson Caravan girl in New Vegas, etc.
Of course you can be mean and sabotage said relationships as well.