That’s a bit irrelevant to this thread but sure, I’ll indulge
The most ludicrous thing I’ve experienced so far is a “bad end”. Now, not that I go against having dire consequences for the in-game choices but for a 600k+ game with no save( a checkpoint system is all we have and not every author has the time for it) , having to restart the ENTIRE game to rectify a few misplaced choices is indeed unpleasant
Which game or games did this?
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying about a misplaced bad end.
I do think bad ends have their purpose, but why I think so may be a discussion for another time.
So getting back to the topic of prices and pricing… do you think a misplaced bad end should be analogous to points off of an assignment? As an example, if a “perfect 100%” game is sold for (this is a random number) $7.99 USD… and if a bad “bad end” reduces the “grade” by 5%, then, in your opinion, do you think the game should be sold for 95% of a “perfect” price?
How would you grade the game with the bad end you mentioned with regard to the current contest criteria?
For reference:
Original, Interesting Characters, 15% of score
Original, Interesting Setting and Plot, 15% of score
Conflicting Goals with Satisfying Endings, 15% of score
Balanced, Intentional, Interesting Choices/Options, 15% of score
Inclusivity, 10% of score
Prose Styling, 10% of score
Creative Stats, Consistently Applied, 10% of score
Length and Coding Efficiency, 5% of score
Overall, Judge’s Choice, 5% of score
Plain an simple this is solved the same way People can solve Pay to win and Pre sales of games by companies know to screw people over.
Either Buy it and reinforce the idea or Don’t.
we cant do what they did in Eve online or Starwars battlefield
but we can merely comment that you chose to stop buying games at the prices you viewed as ridiculous for said product.
Me I have purchased nearly every game sold as both hosted and choice save for maybe 3 games total.
I like the games they have Reasonably fair prices most of the time considering the amount of work put into most of them look at @Havenstone’s XoR or @AllenGies’s Tin star In my opinion they both got underpaid for their Games. There have been games that might have just fell short of their price to me however not by much, and it was still entertainment and while it may not have been fully worth it to me it was to others thats what this community is for to increase the quality of the games we love. With better quality sometimes we have to take higher cost and the rare slightly less quality game that is still decent.
Just buy them or don’t that is your power as a consumer Complaining doesn’t work when your still buying the games in mass while you complain.
Well, Choice of Rebels, for one. On some other thread I wrote about how it uses “bad” endings differently to the CoG norm. It’s not going to be everyone’s cup of tea, and I understand people concluding it’s not worth their money.
I think that’s different from saying it’s not worth THE money. It’s got a target audience–basically, people who like the same kinds of stories and games as the author–and for them, I’m confident that it’s worth the price CoG has set for it.
I’m also sure there are lots of people out there for whom it’s not worth their money. Hopefully the reviews and demo chapter will help them identify that fact before they spend it.
I mean…why…why else would there be other words? Adding that little qualifier in there kind of defeats the purpose of saying games’ prices should be decided upon playthrough length, because every single title has replay ability to some degree.
What I’m getting at is that, in the end, too little replay ability or even too much (which sacrifices length for width) can be viewed as bad in people’s eyes. So, in my opinion, games should just be priced on total length, with playthrough length and quality weighing in as other factors. I bet this is already how it’s decided, but I couldn’t say for sure.
As said before, my suggestion still is providing total wordcount, playthrough wordcount and bonus material wordcount, and pricing via the difference. maybe
Choice of the Petal Throne and A wise use of time come to mind
I’m sure there are a few more that have proven forgettable
Anyways, did the literal first sentence of the post you’re quoting went over your head? I did explicitly say that bad endings were IRRELEVANT to the current discussion. Someone simply asked me what my preferences were for a single playthrough approach to a game
On the topic of that though:
A ‘bad’ ending ends (!) the story of that character. So having to restart fully (or from the last checkpoint) if actually part of the story.
It’s different when the game ends the story prematurely because you don’t follow the author’s vision. I am, naturally talking about HR, especially THP: RS, where Sergi even fricking goes and SCOLDS the reader for NOT playing his path, after pick the ‘wrong’ options out of three.
And this is common in his games especially, yet most of them cost around 7 bucks (depending where you are) AND have a ton of IAPs, some of them basically required to play the game.
If a game where 10k+ of words are scolding the player for ‘playing wrong’ really something that one should be charged for?
Are you misunderstanding some affinities here? I’m against bad endings and redundancies
Or are you arguing for it?
What I said is that for those wishing to achieve the fullest experience from a single playthrough, a bad ending where you literally have to restart(without checkpoint or big distances between them) is simply annoying at best and infuriating if done blatantly
As for the needless antagonizing in question, I think that kind of forcefulness should count against the game if anything. I mean can you really even consider the “wrong” options valid choices?
That said there are exceptions where the endings are handled with such finesse and subtlety that even the supposedly bad endings feel comforting, if not somewhat satisfying, comparable to a legitimate good ending. Eg. Choice of Alexandria or The Last Monster Master
Games are priced directly on total length and perceived marketability. End of story.
Our games used to be 60,000 words long. Then we started releasing games of 100,000 words. Now the average Choice of Games title (since the inception of the company) is 181,000 words, with a playthrough length of 30,000 words.
We used to be three guys and their friends drawing no salary, writing and releasing games. Now we’re a staff of 6 full-time and part-time paid professionals. The amount of work that goes into each game, the amount of attention and care at each stage of the process, now, is arguably greater than when the company began, even as we continue to release more and more games each year. We’ll probably put out 20 games next year. I started working here in 2015 and the amount of professionalization that has occurred just in the last two years, which is perhaps invisible to readers, and very palpable to me in the quality of our games, and in the way we work now.
Much like book publishing, the successes on our list pay for the failures. Why yes, some games don’t sell well, even though they received as much time and attention and work as the successes, and sometimes more.
I love our fans, but I’ve reached the end of my patience with this discussion, which is starting to read like something devaluing my work.
I’m pretty sure no one is devaluing anything here, or any effort that is
And I’m positive that since it is NOT our decision how the games are priced, we acknowledge that we can’t really just change it as will
But we ARE the people buying these things and I feel like expressing discontent in a healthy and constructive manner is better than throwing in the towel and accumulating dissatisfaction in silence
After all, if we don’t feel like our opinions are at least heard and considered then I suppose we might just stop buying products ignorant to its customers, which is a prospect more detrimental to the authors and the staff than to us players. So I mean, we are really trying to help you guys here?
Whether you follow some of the suggestions or not is entirely up to you, just don’t lash out because people have issues with your “professional” setup
I’m not lashing out at anyone. I’m suggesting that the reason games cost as much as they do is not really apparent to anyone here.
I’m sure you’d love to indulge us with some lessons on business and how to set a proper MSRP but that is something I’m sure “no one here” would be able to comprehend clearly anyway
Also, to be fair, the problem potentially predates your employment and all the supposed professionalization in the past two years because the thread started in 2015 apparently or at least that’s when the price hike became enough of a problem for someone to make a post
You’re reading condescension that doesn’t exist, and that I don’t hold into my responses.
That the problem predates my employment suggests to me that our games will always be priced too high for some customers. If we could price the games as low as they were priced two or three years ago, the complaint that they’re priced too high would stand, right? It’s a perennial complaint. I’m saying not only is it a perennial complaint, but there are actual reasons prices have gone up, and none of them involve the company or its principals getting richer from charging another $1-$2 per game.
You had what sounds like a bad experience with Choice of Rebels. I’d agree with you about that game. Choice of Rebels, as @havenstone admits, does not fit our norm. In fact, it directly contradicts our design model, but it was begun seven years ago and standards were different then. If you bought it on Google Play, email support at choiceofgames dot com and we’ll refund it. If you bought it on the App Store, login with your AppleID at reportaproblem.apple.com and request a refund (I’d do so soon because I think they have a 90 day cut off), and I think you have to contact Steam support to request a refund from them.
No reason to get testy. Far as I am concerned, if people are buying them at these prices that’s exactly what they should be priced. Your wallet speaks louder than your voice, and if y’all prove willing to go up to $6.99 then what motivation is there for CoG not to go there? Besides, everyone here likely gets new stuff at the launch sale price anyhow, which means you’d never have to pay that much.
I still think it’d be good for both the company and the readers to occasionally do a price drop on older stuff to goose sales and give an option to those who balk at the high prices, especially now with nothing coming out in the near future. But I freely admit I don’t know what all is involved with that.
Depending on the platform, there is often a price drop during sales periods, such as Steam. I gave someone $100 worth of games which would have cost a lot more (though I still can’t gift to someone in Germany. Stupid region pricing nonsense) during the recent winter sale.
As for general costs going up, there are a lot of factors/reasons which go into it, some of which I highlighted a while back as well. Search algorithms, storefronts like Steam favoring things at a general price point, VAT (in European countries), inflation, etc.
Undercover Agent, Silverworld, The Hero Project: Open Season are all coming out within 6 weeks, I think. Undercover Agent likely on the 18th of this month.
THP: OS has not even been betaed yet… while the other two are in beta since October/November… is that right?
To everyone complaining about having to pay like 4-5$ for titles that can be replayed enough to amount to like 20-30 hrs of playtime, do you enjoy reading? I could go to the movies, spend 25$ to watch a movie that’s shorter than 2 hours, but for these games, I only have to pay around 4-5 dollars the majority of the time, and I get to enjoy them for far far longer. Hell, I wouldn’t even mind paying 10$+ for the books that are 600,000+ words like XoR and GoI etc.
Cool! I didn’t think anything was coming out that soon since there weren’t any dates yet on the Upcoming Releases threads.