You prefer milk chocolate? 
We can’t be friends anymore. heretic 
…
Well, it makes as much sense as other kinds of discrimination 
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No, Ben! Don’t make me choose between you! 
Agreed.
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Dark chocolate, pride of my heart
All who favor milk chocolate we must tear apar
Favor cocoa, we will have the most
Those who add milk, we shall roast
Well, this does raise the point that it’s perfectly viable in writing to deal with prejudices that aren’t based in our own history, assuming the implications are worked out and fit with the setting. And as long it’s not just a sloppy analogy. Patriarchy+homophobia isn’t the only possible dynamic.
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@Eiwynn thanks for your input into the discussion at hand. You seem to make a good point. I love sub-scenes in CoG. To me, those little “low intensity and apparently no point” moments are what increases the proximity between the reader, his character, the npc, and the world itself. So I was planning on adding quite of those kind of moments in the story.
You gave such a good suggestion that I have to ask to clarify your input in the jail issue, should it be unisex or a jail with gender segregation? And do you even believe that it is possible to create a unisex jail (meaning a world with no sex or gender segregation and no kind of sexual violence) and still give some clues about and insert some issues concerning women discrimination?
As I said, for now I’m moving forward with the story adopting the unisex jail (it seems to be a good way to avoid hurting people with non binary gender identity and women that don’t want to face discrimination in a game just like they face it in everyday life), but I appreciate every single opinion. My decisions are never final. Also, I’m only introducing one npc in jail that will have future influence in the story/relationships of the PC. Coding wise, that gives me the freedom to change my mind on the issue without having to go back and change too many things.
Thanks for not staying out of this thread 
Ahahahah. I guess that we, fans of dark chocolate, really need to stick together against all others.
I guess that the Infinity Series (sabres and guns of infinity, I can’t quite remember the official name of that fantastic world) found a good way to introduce xenophobia and racism in its world without recurring to “real world” racism, that could hurt and hanger many potential readers. Those elves really feel superior to everyone else 
.
Irony mode: That being said, we really need a game that tackles the obvious biological differences between people who like dark chocolate and those who prefer milk chocolate. People who like dark chocolate are definitely superior to everyone else in all aspects 
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So on reflection, I think part of what happens to me with prejudice in these sorts of games is that I mind the little things far more than the big things. If there’s something big, it feels like it’s something to overcome, a major part of the work. Little things feel more like they’re grinding me down, and that’s not what I come to these works for. I think that’s where I was coming from with the examples I mentioned above.
Do other people feel similarly?
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When there is discriminaton, it should only exist to be overcome or proven wrong, whether by the player, characters, narrative, or world-building.
Otherwise the writer is advocating the existence of discrimination as realistic or natural or god forbid, deserved. The player, nor minority characters, can thusly prove bigots - readers and NPCs - wrong, and while majorities may not bat an eye it can wear down some minorities quite easily to read this relentless assault.
Creating a world where characters exist and are strong despite discrimination is important; has so much more an impact than no discrimination.
But if your game is not going to handle depicting discrimination with grace, it is better not to at all. If you include discrimination, and are not going to go out of your way to prove discrimination wrong as a writer, you are only contributing to the discomfort of readers and validation of bigots.
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Just as discrimination should only be used in a minimal manner for a purpose, the world-building you are doing should be done for a purpose. Does it matter in your story if a jail is unisex? If so, why is this important in your world-building?
If not, would it be better to leave to the imagination of the reader?
What about avoiding the issue all-together and starting the MC-prisoner off in solitary confinement?
If you take historical examples of mobsters in jail in the US, then the solitary confinement is more likely; you can be writing about a world where the mobster in question is running his/her enterprise from jail and invites the MC in a visit to their “cell” which is more like a room in a four-star hotel …
Or you can take the Narco-prison that a South American Narco built as his “home” which was just like a normal mob-den but with an outside core of a prison
My point here is - for everything you show in your world-building there should be a purpose.
To illustrate my point: concerning the discrimination @Laguz presents two very solid and valid reasons:
and
Discrimination is not attached to gender segregation in the world or its lack of. There might be a link but its not causational. In other words, discrimination exists outside of this.
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White chocolate is better.
@Eiwynn, I’m so glad that you decided to join the discussion. Your questions and observations are quite useful.
Matter of fact, if I had to choose between unisex or jail segregation, purely thinking about the story I wanted to tell, unisex jail seems the best fit. For one point not having jail segregation lets me not having to swap the gender of characters (something that I’m really not fond of). For another, it reinforced the reader’s feeling that this is not United States of America, it is the Federal States.
Also, it helps me in introducing to the reader an world where sex discrimination, if any, isn’t as it is in our reality. The PC’s mobster family has “made women” as much as it has “made men”, hell the PC (which can be a woman or whatever gender he desires) starts the game already in a position of privilege and not that few power in the family itself. That right there is quite a plus for an unisex jail. And also, there is the everlasting wish to include all people of this community, and it seems that to quite a number of them a non discrimination by gender world would be less hurtful or less offensive.
Unfortunately, I’m not that big on leaving a whole lot to imagination when it comes to particular aspects of the setting/plot.
That, my forum comrade, is indeed a great idea. It gives me the opportunity to slowly introduce the setting, the past of the MC, the history of his mobster organization, his childhood and teenage years, etc.
Just one problem. I don’t know if american jails (for those pending trial) have solitary. In my country there isn’t a big distinction (if any) between jail and prison to start off. And there is no solitary. I believe that not even in the only maximum security prison that we have has one. Well, maybe I don’t even need to stick to the american reality. I am already changing things, why not change a few more? 
Well, this is an entirely different question altogether. I’m quite interested to know other people’s thoughts on this topic, if any of you are interested. My initial take on it is that you are in fact right, no gender segregation doesn’t mean no gender discrimination. Or else there wouldn’t be (some) unisex bathrooms and such in a world such as ours. A good point indeed.
Thanks for your detailed input. It gave me a lot to think about and, with some luck, it also answered some questions from fellow aspiring authors that might visit this little corner of the forum 
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Too be fair being a girl in the first place is a retcon. it was impossible to be a girl in 1.
You’re just in there for the starting mission, you just wake up from a coma and break out. I don’t really remember any serious sexual harassment themes in Saints Row, with the closest comparison I remember being a boss fight with a kidnapped (female) gang member by her ex.
Doesn’t horrible stuff usually happen more to men in fiction, short of rape? I mean most of the time I see guys get mutilated in fiction more and if there is a case of a guy getting raped taken seriously it’s usually portrayed especially horrible to drive home a lesson, especially if it’s by a girl.
Too be honest, I wonder why gender v.s sex segregation is important, from all point of views, especially in a prison.
And aren’t there different gendered guards in real life prison? And some (very few) unisex prisons?
I’m all for different experiences and level of discrimination if the setting is appropriately dark. Although I also dislike being beat over the head with it.
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I’m going to comment on this on a broader way first:
Discrimination is just another form of violence that has been part of humanity (and will be). There hasn’t been a single culture that hasn’t enabled some kind of discrimination, including but not limited to sexism, homophobia or racism. It’s potential for conflict, it can drive characters (whether as villains with bigoted beliefs or characters who try to overcome their prejudices).
Fictional worlds function because they have a relatable realistic component. As a LGBT woman, I don’t want to be constantly beaten over the head with these, but I also wouldn’t feel entirely immersed if my experience plays out the same as a heterosexual man in the same circumstances. To be more specific, say I’m having a female love interest while playing a female MC: I don’t want to be constantly berated about it, but I would relate more to my MC if another character disapproved of our relationship at some point. Female and male experiences by themselves are different, and some issues to remember that give a story more chance to get you immersed.
It can be small dialogue changes, such as being dismissed by a male enemy as a female heroine, or a female NPC not trusting the male main character because of previous experiences with men. As long as it’s treated respectfully, there’s nothing wrong with making female, male and NB experiences different in your game.
And sorry to derail, regarding your first question about a jail scenario, I think you can go with two different approaches:
A) Make the jail unisex, and avoid issues of possible sexual agressions by making it a high security prison in which there’s just such a lack of freedom that guarantees that inmates won’t be able to interact with each other much anyway, and when they do, they’re heavily scrutinized and punished if they do anything wrong. You can add details how life in this prison would be different depending on your gender, sexual orientation, race, etc, and even use these to determine your MC traits.
B) Make the jail separate based on genders because it’s what you, the author, will be most comfortable writing and think it’s what you will write best. Like I said, as long as you try to be respectful, what matters is that you deliver an interesting good game experience. I personally wouldn’t mind starting with this scenario if the story, conflict and characters are still interesting.
Good luck with your project.
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[quote=“Dark_Stalker, post:52, topic:22688”]
Doesn’t horrible stuff usually happen more to men in fiction, short of rape? I mean most of the time I see guys get mutilated in fiction more [/quote]
Yes, I guess that gender discrimination goes both ways (please note that I’m not even implying that it is close to comparable, not by miles). In the end, my personal belief is that whatever difference that exists in the fictional portrayal of different genders (or in the reality of social discrimination) is the division of societies in two opposed genders. In the sense that women should act as women and men should act as men, with all the stuff that something like that implies.
Why should I need to be tough or strong just because I am a man? Why can’t I cry when I want to or stay home taking care of the kids if that is my choice? Why does a woman need to be the classic damsel in distress, in touch with her feelings and needing protection? Why can men sleep around and be considered a “player”, but if women do the same they are accused of being slutty? Why do men need to dress with jeans and women with skirts and dresses? Why can’t two male friends walk holding hands without being gay, but two female friends can? Why can’t a woman be tougher and more successful than men?
In the end, I believe that all social discrimination and all the differences in fictional portrayal are the result of the imposition of social norms to both genders. That social imposition is obviously incredibly more castrating to women than to men. Men only get “behavior castration”, women get all sorts of it, with a a daily and everlasting impact on their professional, personal and family lives.
So, to answer your comment, men usually get the “hard end of the stick” (I hope to be using this expression in the right way, please consider that I’m not a native English speaker) when it comes to violence because we are supposed to be the tough and physical ones.
To me (and my intake is obviously not that important, since I have never felt gender discrimination or anything like that) true equality can only be achieved when we stop thinking about genders, and start thinking about people. A man wants to stay home taking care of his kids and being the most emotional party of a relationship? Fine. A women wants to work, reach the same positions men do and be independent? Please do. A women wants to stay home taking care of her children? It is her right and if it was a self made independent decision we shouldn’t criticize it.
Equality means freedom of choice and freedom to reach wherever your merit gets you, despite your color, sex, gender, or sexual orientation. We all are different, but we are all the same. It doesn’t matter if we are male, female or non binary when it comes to sex and gender identity. We are all humans. We should all dress and behave however we want to, work in whatever job we want, reach whatever professional position that suits our personal merit, date whoever we are attracted to, and be whatever gender we feel being.
Hell, it seems that I have wrote a kind of a manifest . I am male, but the topic of gender equality (and every other equality) is very important to me, that was the main reason I wanted to know what people think about how should gender segregation and gender discrimination be treated in CoG. a
To anyone that could end up reading this wall of text I just want to apologize (and not only for its size 
) if my stance on the issue of gender discrimination (and the reasons of the difference in the portrayal of genders in fiction) offends someone, or if the way I portrayed my views is interpreted as being not that stellar when it comes to avoid hurting people’s feelings or beliefs. I believe to have been successful in my attempt to avoid hurting or offending anyone, but we never know for sure when it comes to this delicate matters and the fact that I’m not a native English speaker doesn’t help. Thanks for putting up with me and for contributing to this discussion and to the clarification of my questions.
Oh no, please derail at will. This thread must not be limited to the “unisex jail” topic. It is good to see it becoming a much more profound and embracing discussion. And thank you for your contribution. Inserting small details that remind the reader of the meaningfulness of their gender/sexual orientation seems a good way to give more realism to the world without being constantly beating with it in the readers’ heads. I will have to consider all the possibilities .
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But, there are physical differences between the sexes (which really only matters in a primitive or historic setting). That’s why things like a solely female army in a setting with no/primitive birth control methods is not believable to me. Or a setting that places a high importance on having biological children like royalty or nobility without some discrimination, is not believable (this is more a society thing, but the important things in society should match what is/is not looked down upon and dictatorships are more friendly than monarchies).
My point is that you can have a society without discrimination that is logical, but there would need to be in game lore that describes that setting if it differs greatly from how a reader’s idea of that society is. Just stating something like a unisex jail without explaining it would cause some readers to question how that works and cause plot gaps (or whatever is less than a plot hole).
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I would prefer for the game to have prison be unisex, because I’d find it like an approach you don’t see every day - plus it would make for more romance options from the start( sorry not sorry I’m a sucker for romance and half my replays of games are because I want to try out every gender/sexuality/RO there possibly is) xD.
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