Polls about COG, HG, and IF games

Some brief advice if you are interested as it sounded like you might be: practise and remind yourself in your mind that the characters are nonbinary, perhaps emphasising the pronouns in your head when reading. It is a learning curve, especially if someone doesn’t have nonbinary people in their life but it can be done if the effort is made :slightly_smiling_face:

Re the poll: I greatly prefer to play games where I can set gender. For gender locked games it heavily increases my interest if you can play a trans character, even if I don’t play through as trans, because it shows me that the author is at least considering that side of things for the game/setting. I am less interested in explicitly cis female or cis male locked games.

I would love to play a game locked to a trans and/or nonbinary PC (it would take me back to the many Twines I played when first rediscovering IF!). I’m not sure they would get huge commercial success from the HG or HC audiences but who knows, maybe it would be a cult hit.

Generally though, for HGs even though there isn’t a rule about being able to select gender like there is for CoG, there is an expectation that it’ll be there as an option. By removing that choice it goes against that expectation, which not everyone will like.

13 Likes

I actually would be somewhat curious in the interest/the general acceptability for a game that locks the protagonist into being trans. More and more games have been including options for more detailed gender expression (Fallen Hero is an exemplar here), I’d be very curious to see how open people are to being forced to play a trans protagonist. I think it could be an interesting experience for a lot of people, if they were willing to give it a try.

Alternatively, gender but not birth-sex or birth-sex but not gender locked games could be interesting, if handled properly.

11 Likes

Not going to lie, I just caved and bought Baldur’s Gate III, seeing the option to choose "Non-binary’ actually made me tear up. Unironically. I am crying. Damn it.

Anyway, I guess I am just saying I didn’t realise how much having the choice would impact me. This is the first AAA game I’ve seen that lets me pick a character that is actually my identity. [Related to gender talk so I guess I felt like sharing]

20 Likes

I do remember seeing a WiP some time ago where PC was always trans. If I recall, when you selected your gender while going through character creation, it told you “Your parents disagreed with you” and that you were assigned differently at birth.

I remember not expecting it, and after the initial “huh?”, I felt pretty engaged. Don’t think it ever got finished, though. Maybe I can find it.

Edit: It was called “Fearless”, and was only on DashingDon with no WiP thread. PC being trans wasn’t mentioned in the summary which is why it surprised me, but it tied into the premise, so I can see the artistic intent.

Yep, you can still find it here: https://dashingdon.com/play/phoenixcourtney97/fearless/mygame/index.php?cb=57045

6 Likes

Most Heart’s Choice games let you play through once for free, correct? Most likely I would try a gender-locked game, then buy it if I liked it.

Yeeessss, I remember happening upon that one as well, a long time ago!

The trans-ness was a surprise, but was handled really well, and didn’t trigger any dysphoria for me.
The whole ‘unfortunately your parents thought you were the other sex, and gave you this name’ thing was a pretty cool mechanic.

Is it still up?

As it came out from another topic

What’s more acceptable for a genderlocked CYOA?
  • Worldbuilding reasons
  • Because I (author) said so
0 voters

imo it’s VERY dependant on the ‘why’ it’s genderlocked rather than ‘if’ it’s genderlocked.

For example a game reliant on historical accuracy with a protagonist of a particular profession or role in society has a reason to genderlock (eg. a ww2 soldier, or a princess in an arranged marraige) OR a game where gender plays a role on the theme has a reason to genderlock (such as a game where sexism, gender roles or self identity are important).

But, when gender plays no role in the ‘accuracy’ or in the theme it can come across as the author not knowing how to write certain genders, and though there are exceptions, I often find that when an author does genderlock it comes across in their writing that they struggle to emphasise with other genders

Though conversely if someone chooses not to genderlock in a game where gender does have an impact it can be easy to see that it was written with an X gender character in mind.

4 Likes

I see no issue with “because the author said so”. I mean, they’re the ones putting in the work, and if limiting the MC to one gender makes that easier for them for whatever reason, that’s their business. Unless someone is going to volunteer to code for them or help write it, then that’s just how it is. I’ve avoided games due to them being genderlocked to male, but I’ve avoided a game that has a locked female because I found the ROs to be gross. So… meh.

14 Likes

I was finding this question hard to answer and realised it’s because really it all boils down to “because I said so”. And that’s OK! But worldbuilding is a choice on the part of the author - it’s either a world they have full control over, or they’re deciding what elements to focus on from the real world and if applicable, where to deviate - so for me, they’re kind of the same thing. How much I enjoy it depends more on what the worldbuilding reason is and what effect it has on the PC, and the wider picture of what the story is exploring.

3 Likes

I see your point, but for me, the difference is when worldbuilding is used as an excuse made after-the-fact instead of just stating “because I want to” … I’d rather just take that honest answer there.

5 Likes

Author does what they want. They don’t need a grand intricate reason to justify their choices except that they felt like it. The reader either gets on board or moves on. It’s not like there’s lack of entertainment options in this day and age.

10 Likes

I find these results interesting - they seem to indicate that men are much less comfortable playing as women than vice versa. And it makes me wonder why people are so resistant to playing non-binary characters. Not surprising, but a bit sad.

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I suppose women are just more used to playing as men thanks to non-IF games with male protagonists. And possibly thanks to some other forms of media, men are more likely to be MCs in all but few select genres and so defaulting to them feels more natural, in a sense.

As for why people are more “resistant” to being locked as non-binary characters than those of opposite gender, I imagine it’s partially because of ambiguity involved in playing such a character. Like, if I have to play as non-binary or agender in your story, what does that imply? Do I look androgynous and that’s why people call me “they” or am I physically masculine/feminine and other characters just all happen to know my pronouns on sight? If so, which one? Should I just pick without actually picking in-game? I get that “what’s between your legs?” may be considered a rude question IRL, but if you want me to get into character then maybe I deserve to know/choose the answer.

10 Likes

Do I look androgynous and that’s why people call me “they” or am I physically masculine/feminine and other characters just all happen to know my pronouns on sight? If so, which one? Should I just pick without actually picking in-game? I get that “what’s between your legs?” may be considered a rude question IRL, but if you want me to get into character then maybe I deserve to know/choose the answer.

The “androgynous = nonbinary” thing is a really old, tired trope for nonbinary people to hear time and again. You shouldn’t need to ‘look nonbinary’ to be seen as such, I think for settings where a nonbinary character would be the lead then there would be consideration into how they would be recognised for their identity.

Generally speaking, in fantasy or AU world equivalents of our own where inclusiveness was ingrained into society early, there would be methods already long in place by which to denote identity/pronouns without needing excess declataion. [In some stories, people when introducing their names will offer their pronouns in addition like Tale of Crowns. In my own, the country the story takes place in has a system of colour-coded sashes/scarves/belts worn around the torso/waist/under the chest to denote one’s identity/pronouns.]

I’m masc-nonbinary myself so I frankly cannot understand the reservations around playing a nonbinary character. However, I believe that having the ability to choose one’s sex characteristics would be unrelated to their identity.

Point of this all being ‘if you have a nonbinary lead then you probably would be thinking about worldbuilding around the identities of those who are not binary.’ Fields of Asphodel also handles pronouns and identity well, with having the Realm of insight which gives others a passive knowledge of the identities of those within the Underworld.

8 Likes

Or you have a higher proportion of males to females on the forum. Got to be careful we’re not equating correlation with causation

Poll: Do you consider yourself

  • Male
  • Female
  • Nonbinary
0 voters

I suspect that it’s a combination of the two, but that is entirely unscientific.

2 Likes

I always assumed there is more women on the forums then men. Can’t hazard why though, just my own suspicions.

1 Like

I’m not surprised. Our culture teaches us from the beginning that stories about boys and men are universal, while stories about girls and women are specific to the feminine experience.

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I’m scientific and curious so I made a poll. Be interesting to see what it comes out as :smile:

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