I hesitate to answer “Yes, I want to know who the ROs are before I read the story (more than just their names)” because my answer would be closer to “I want to know who (all of) the characters are (more than just their names)” before I read a WIP. Character descriptions give me a better idea of what kind of story I’m getting into, so for me it’s more about that than about the characters (and ROs in particular) themselves
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I chose the last option but I actually don’t pay much attention to what the description of the characters say because I prefer to wait until I read the story before I choose a RO, still it’s nice to have an idea of who they are (also if they’ll be romanceable for my MC)
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I chose the last one, mainly because I prefer playing straight, female MCs (unless I need a new male OC or want to use the game to figure out how an already-existing character I write behaves). So if there are no male ROs that look interesting, or the story doesn’t reach out and grab me, I tend to not bother with it.
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I went with the gimme everything option, but I would like to qualify that, because as much as I prefer and appreciate getting tons of info on the ROs it’s only if romance is a heavy focus and not just a feature. If a character was intended as a romance from the start and this plays into the scenes/choices available, then that’s different from an NPC who is romanceable but ultimately…is just flavor text, you know?
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How can you tell a difference between the two?
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Sorta like difference between plot-driven and character-driven, I…guess?
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All of the above.
Great question! I’ve been trying to figure out a good explanation since I posted this, lol. It’s actually a lot harder than I initially thought to really explain this.
Ahem.
So this might not hold true for everyone, but to me, a romanceable NPC tends to have only one (sometimes two) major romance scene(s) plus some flavor text here and there to show that your choice…like…existed, I guess, lol, but ultimately the romance doesn’t really affect the plot in any way (which is fine), nor does it lead to or enhance any character growth or change for the NPC (which is slightly less fine, sometimes).
By contrast, ROs who have been developed as such from the start, or who were added to games that don’t just have romance as a game feature but as a form of character exploration, those ROs are mwah chef’s kiss.
They don’t have to affect the plot, hell, they oftentimes don’t even need to experience tons of character growth, but what matters is that romancing them enhances what we do see of them so that they feel more well-rounded and realistic.
I’m hesitant to use any CoG or HG examples so…rip to anyone who hasn’t played a Bioware game, lol.
So Kaiden Alenko from Mass Effect. That motherfucker. Luckily for me Oscar Isaac came along in Star Wars to replace him as a tall-dark-and-handsome-sci-fi-guy but at the time of Mass Effect 3, I was devastated.
The romances in ME1 were…okay. Rudimentary compared to what we’d get later. And then in ME2, through no fault of our own because (spoilers for a ten year old game) whose fault is it that you were revived really, I mean, come on Alenko, are you really gonna hold that against Shepherd especially after the fucking Reaper Invasian that almost happened just a couple years ago—Alenko. Alenko, don’t you dare send me a breakup letter instead of interacting with—goddamnit Alenko.
Anyway, his romance was…disappointing.
You kind get to confront him a little in Mass Effect 3, including whether or not to rekindle something, and I did because I’m a loyal bitch, but my god was that disappointing too.
Firstly, he’s a total NPC for at least the first third of the game, not even a party member because someone had to go and get their ass handed to 'em, and then after that he basically gets like…
One?
Two romantic scenes?
Some dialogue I think.
And then Shepherd dies or disappears (“player choice”) and he steps out of a spaceship to…stare, I guess, and that’s it, that’s what his romance felt like to me. Just…a huge waste of time.
Anyway, compare that to my other basic bitch pixel boy crush—Alistair Therin from Dragon Age: Origins—yes, that bastard.
I still love him, even after I found out that Steven Valentine looked nothing like him after I saw him in that one Disney Channel show, I’m In The Band and I don’t care what anyone says, that show is bearable because he’s in it and I appreciate his turn as a stereotypical British rock star aNyWaY.
DA:O romances were still pretty darn rudimentary compared to what we would get later, and hell, even the character modes left…something to be desired. I mean, Alistair was supposed to be 20. T w e n t y. God I’m so old.
But the game makes up for it by just…having such well written characters chef’s kiss chef’s kiss chef’s kiss. Between each character’s loyalty mission, the hefty amount of dialogue each one gets, and the epilogue which at the time was all we got so I could headcanon the crap out of it, it was good, it was solid, it was a well-written game.
Regardless of if you romance him or not, you’re able to help Alistair grow into a more mature individual who’ll be a great king one day 
and Morrigan—ugh. My tragically heterosexual goth waifu. Even with the limitations of character models, when she realizes that the warden cares for her because…because they like her and her face crumples because she’s never experienced kindness like this and ugh. Ugh. She loves you! Even if she doesn’t reciprocate romantic feelings to female wardens, she loves her and I just…my heart.
This game.
There’s real character development going on in the first game that the player really can impact, and romance only enhances this. And then the plot choices too will be enhanced by the player choice. Like, Alistair sounding more commanding when discussing plans with Arl Eamon and Bann Teagan sounds more…justified, and feels more enriched if you’ve already done his loyalty mission and encouraged him to mature.
And just before the final battle when Morrigan (spoilers for a game you should all have played by now, seriously it’s really good) suggests the Old God baby avoid-going-to-soul-jail/death-for-free card/ritual and while she’s very…witchy and Morrigan-y about it, it’s also pretty clear that she just doesn’t want you to die is heartrending because yeah. Yeah it makes sense that she would do anything to keep her very first friend and/or the love of her life from dying, and if she gets an Old God baby from it, oh well, ain’t that nice.
So I’m not sure if that helped at all, because I understand it can be difficult to translate what can be done in a video game with graphics and voice acting and whatnot vs. a CS game where your brain’s the workhorse which can be a good and bad thing, ultimately. But.
I hope that sort of at least explained what I meant kinda maybe possibly who knows.
Or, a shorter way of saying all this:
I really didn’t need to write a whole BioWare centric essay, did I?
Oh well.
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I enjoyed reading this. Re-experiencing as I’m playing the recently re-released ME: Legendary Edition. Gets me to thinking about DA as well. They fell short in a lot of ways. In others, what they did was unprecented. The fact that we need to talk about Bioware on the subject. I’m actually the most fond of the Liara DLC for ME:2.
It was something of a fall from innocence for her character. Which was believable given your death. In ME:1 she’d been like Indiana Jones meets a nun. In the two years after your death you find out she retrieved your body–that’s why she got into the underworld of information brokering. She kept your armor in her apartment! By the end of ME:2 she’s intergalactic Lord Varys (GoT). What a wide and believable arc.
Morrigan is also my favorite RO from DA, and I hated that I couldn’t spend time w her in the way I wanted in DA:I. Love the set up and defensiveness of her story. Hate the way she pushes you away in DA:O after you’ve been intimate–but it’s perfect for her character. Can’t say I’ve seen that done elsewhere or so well.
To my knowledge, no one has so successfully integrated NPC ROs in a plot-driven RPG as Bioware. They’re really the standard for my own work. I’d say the closest would be Persona, especially 5. But it has a different kind of feel. Everyone is in highschool. No one is fully formed. So you’re less joining lives than firguring one another out as you figure yourself out. Going into their hearts, though, does give insight you wouldn’t standardly get, which is a nice touch. Persona gets big points for visual style and music, but I don’t think they reach the depth of DA or ME. Highs school archetypes vs, say, a gay necromancer with a mustache?
@rose-court
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Dorian? You mean my favorite non-RO video game character ever (I can’t get myself to play male characters, even for him 
)?
It’s simply no contest, lol.
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My all time favorite RO from ME is Garrus, so perfect 
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Thanks for the explanation! 
I think a lot of people - myself included - get hung up on the fact that to make an NPC important/memorable they have to have important plot significance but that’s not always true.
They just have to be memorable characters instead!
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Yes, I want to know if there’s any ROs available for me and have a general idea about whether I’m interested in any of them, before I start the game.
Especially if it’s one of the gams where you have to flirt with the RO from the moment you meet them, to have a chance to romance them.
I want to know where I should focus my attention and affection, to avoid disappointment.
…
I may need to re-replay Inquisition soon again. 
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What sort of information do you want to know about them? Name, appearance, sexuality, etc.? Or do you want to know things like backstory and role in the story, in addition to the basic information?
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Name + gender + sexuality are the most important ones, the ones that needs to be there every time. Just to be able to identify my options.
The rest doesn’t have to be specific info, it can be many different things. Just something to give a feel for the character.
Appearance is a bit mixed for me, since my taste in looks aren’t the standard. So when the art/description fits my tastes, it’s really awesome, but when all the ROs just look boring to me, it’s kinda disappointing.
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Name definitely, availability toward MCs, a small blurb on their personality—for me, that’s about all I really need to start making lists on who to romance first, lol. I also appreciate knowing a character’s appearance but if it isn’t
short and sweet adjectives (blue hair, purple skin, pink eyes—that kind of thing), well…there be dragons in that direction.
Me talking about these metaphorical dragons for ten minutes
I haven’t seen too many authors do this on the forum, but in other amateur/non-professional writing spaces, character descriptions in the can get pretty…objectifying, especially for female/feminine characters. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard “tall but slender” used to describe a character who’s supposed to be an insanely strong woman. Like, ballerinas can throw a punch, absolutely, but how many of them do you think can punch Batman off their feet, you know?
I would much rather hear about a character’s personality…mostly because it’s a lot harder for newer writers to fall into problematic statements that way.
Long story short, avoid writing Ebony Darkness Dementia Raven Ways in character summaries, lol.
Now, one thing I want to bring up that I don’t think is spoken of very often is having a full on dramatis personae in the OP. Like, not just ROs, but all the major characters. At least, as a writer I imagine I’d want one so hopefully readers can tell me if there’s disconnect between how, say, my comic relief character is intended to come off and how they actually come off.
A benefit of having a public development is that you’re able to get really granular with certain things by tweaking and tweaking until your testers clap their hands together and say perfect! And I imagine it’d be a lot easier if you provide readers with your intention for certain characters so that they can tell you if what you’re writing is working to achieve that, and if not, what they believe can fix things. Or hell, if there’s even a whole structural issue that’s undermining my goal.
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I think this would be great for testing purposes and I am now thinking of doing this, at least to the beta readers, thanks! I do have a full character description ready for every one of my characters, however, I did not want to give too much of my characters’ backstories away and feel it is better for the (eventual) reader to explore while playing the game. Having said that, I am currently not writing a story where romance is a main focus otherwise it might be different. The player does have an advantage when they get along with all their expedition members though, which might make things a bit too easy and predictable if you would not a lot about them before meeting them. I guess it all depends on the game. 
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Sorry if this has been answered before, I searched it up on the forum but didn’t find one on the topic-
I’m curious how people prefer their games. I have a game (or series) planned, and I’m also trying to decide how I want to break it up, or if I should just keep it as one. The pros for me with multiple games is that the games between tend to work as really good save points, and the story is longer (I don’t think I’ve ever played a one-game title that felt like a complete story), but I know that the wait time can be a killer.
- One very long game
- Multiple games (2-3)
0 voters
ALSO: I’ve noticed that COG/HG games have gotten a lot longer over the years. I know that playthrough length and stuff also matters, but if you had to judge it only off of word count, what would you consider a good length of game?
- less than 100,000 words
- 100,000-200,000 words
- 200,000-300,000 words
- 400,000-500,000 words
- more than 500,000 words
- word count doesn’t matter to me
0 voters
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In regards to the first question:
My real preference is for when the games have parts, with savepoints (zombie exodus, tin star, a study in steampunk, etc), but is still one game in the end.
But I don’t know what is required to be allowed to release your game that way, and I don’t know if I’d like it as much, if the game in question is very light on stats and less RPG like.
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I would just like to point out that out of the 164 Hosted Games available on the HG app, 107 of them are below 200,000 words.
And out of the 125 Choice of Games available on the CoG app, 67 of them (i.e. more than a half) are below 200,000 words.
There’s nothing wrong with wanting games to be longer, of course, but I think it’s important to have realistic expectations.
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