Well, to be perfectly honest, I’m reasonably confident and comfortable with the definition that I presently use, the one about the mismatch between physical body and self-perception. It’s sensible, understandable, and it’s the one which lies behind at least the development of the modern idea of transgenderism. But I am, of course, quite willing to listen to and appraise any others that may appear.
edit: Though I’m about to take off, so I suppose I won’t be doing the appraising right at the moment.
The definition of trans is a person who identifies with another gender then the one they were designated at birth. That’s it. What I’m telling Dominic to stop doing is discussing how one knows a trans person is legitimately trans or not. That is up to the trans community and gender therapists to decide. Not you. So far most ( not all ) of the trans community has ageed that dysphoria is not needed to be trans.
It’s not my place to speak on behalf of trans people. Generally speaking, I do think ascribing any particular trait to an entire community (especially ‘they have problems’, and especially if it is not one’s own community) is a particularly bad idea.
And I am going to go back to listening now. I want to learn more, and be able to provide better trans options and trans NPCs in my works in progress. I appreciate this thread, and everyone who’s spoken on it. Thank you very much.
Do you have any good, direct sources on why this is the case? I’m reading. I’m reading a lot about it. It’s still hard to wrap my head around, the idea that someone who experiences no dysphoria can still be transgender.
Getting gender euphoria as a keyword has helped a bit. I do get that some people might be perfectly comfortable, just be more comfortable being a different gender.
I’m just going to say that I’ve been involved in the trans community for almost six years now, and it’s as new to me as it is to you. Saying that gender dysphoria isn’t part of being trans is at least also unfamiliar to the trans-friendly forums I’ve been on or initially came out to so many years ago. Maybe they were more old fashioned (The main site in question looked like it had been made in '05, though the forum looked more new), but I’d never seen it mentioned there. I was always under the impression that gender dysphoria was the central pillar around which the community and medical scholars came to understand each other.
At the very least, I figure dysphoria is pretty damn major to some parts of the trans community, and less so to other parts.
This article http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/08/not-all-trans-folks-dysphoria/ written by a trans person is a pretty good break down of why a person without dysphoria is still trans. They , a trans person even admit that they were opposed to the idea when they first heard of it but came to accept it. As you can see it is a BIG topic of debate in the trans community but I think most people are coming around to it the more stories they hear. I , a trans person with dysphoria, was opposed to the idea as well. But now I’m not. After hearing many different stories from people of all walks of life I understand it better now. It’s hard for me to explain since I do suffer from dysphoria. I think what this topic really needs is a trans person who doesn’t experiance dysphoria to come talk about it.
I’m glad I could help with the understanding at least a little! In reference to the age thing when it comes to trans community terms/issues; I’m twenty three and didn’t figure out/accept I was trans until I was nineteen. So alot of what I know and learned is deffinitely newer stuff.
@genjishimada Thank you. That is a really nice and informative article, and the author does a great job at describing their experiences with the subject.
@Dominic Sorry, didn’t mean to put words in your mouth. That’s basically what I meant, that you would probably be willing to change that definition if a better, equally reasonable one was provided.
This is the same definition Dominic was using, isn’t it?
There is no mention of dysphoria in that, if we mean that gender dysphoria is feeling distress about your gender assigned at birth. I can see that someone could still feel a mismatch between their body and mind without actually suffering from it.
Okay, so… is seeking to “correct” your gender assignment, through the use of pronouns, and/or hormones and/or surgery etc a factor in this definition?
The thing is, the gender you’re assigned at birth doesn’t have to be related to the body that you have, (which to me seems like an assumption you’re making here) especially in case of people who are born as intersex rather than than as of strictly male or female sex, though there are also accounts of children of the female sex being raised as male and vice versa.
The points you make themselves seem sound to me, just not the link that seems to be made between the two by placing them back to back.
(I might just be reading too much into this though.)
I’m not sure I understand your question @sithwist. are you asking if a person is trans only if they decide to transition? If that’s what you’re asking then no; A trans person is trans whether they transition or not. Some choose to do so, some don’t for varying reasons. For example some can’t transition because it would cause them many health problems or perhaps they live in a very dangerous place that would end up in them being the target of violence. For some people transitioning is as simple as changing your name and pronouns to one’s you are more comfortable with. If this isn’t what you’re asking then I apologize since I’m a bit confused. Also I told Dominic to drop the topic because they seemed to be arguing that dysphoria was a requirement of being trans which I took offense to because they are not trans. The requirements of being trans are for trans people to discuss. If I was wrong and this is not what the were talking about than I apologize for misunderstanding.
I can understand your frustration, but I can see where @genjishimada is coming from too. What to you seem like reasonable arguments and thoughtful discussion might feel unpolite or unnecessarily hurtful to others. So let’s try to give each other some time to recollect themselves if they indicate that they need such a thing. If that means having to temporarily drop a specific topic that has to do with what it’s like to be a transgender person, so be it. We all need a break from time to time.
(If I’m just making wild guesses here I’m pretty sure I’ll be corrected within now and the next five minutes You people sure know how to keep up the pace.)
Then why does this thread exist if a trans person’s word is worth equal to a cis person’s? Can someone just lock this, please. This is going nowhere, and offers nothing of value anymore. Not that it did much in the first place.
Yes he is. He insults trans people’s opinions.
If this damn thread is going to get fucked over by cis people arguing amongst themselves, there is no reason to continue it.
I apologize if I seemed rude or anything like that. I was the target of people not believing I was trans when I first came out and it hurt me alot. So I immediately get defensive when people are like ’ how do we know if this person is really trans?’. I apologize if anyone felt I was being rude to them. I will try to explain more calmly in the future.
Damn straight. I put out points, I gave the most information here, I answered questions, I gave advice. And yet it’s still being ruined by a bunch of cis people’s infighting. As always.
Someone lock this, whoever’s on. I don’t know why I bother.
It’s not Wire that’s the problem. It’s Dominic and people responding to him. I am specifically referring to the “shut up” remark, because I do not wish to continue this topic because of this inter-cis talk.
This is @Leodaire’s thread. If they ask for the thread to be locked then I will lock it.
There’s been a number of other trans people posting on this thread other than the two of you. There’s a lot of people who’ve been finding it useful.
I’m giving the exact same statement I gave the staff when we discussed locking the thread. I don’t want to silence any of the trans people on this forum.
If you don’t want to contribute anymore then please feel free to leave the thread.
If you have a problem with a forum member please either flag their posts, or contact the moderators directly and we can discuss things there rather on on this thread.
You people sure know how to keep up the pace.)
